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jump in market rank

R

rockroll0617

Guest
So, Charlotte will jump to the #25 radio market in the fall. The bigger question
is: "does the quality of radio match what will be the impending Top 25 market
status"?

Been to Charlotte a half-dozen times. Great city, for sure, but is the level of
radio on-par with the Cincinnatis, Portlands, Denvers of the world? I can't
knowledgably answer that but I bet a lot of you there can. Thanks.
 
I know for a fact the quality of radio is better than Cincy ;)
 
As long as Clear Channel, Entercom, and Infinity own most all of them, most all will sound about the same. Until they finally move on, like getting a bad piece of beef out of our system, radio will continue to be overly predictable, and not really fun to listen to. Listen to Cat Country. Sounds like all of their other countries just about anywhere! I don't see different markets standing out based on their size.
 
I think if you want to hear something really different, something fun, something that catches your ear and draws you in... you need to go to a smaller market, not a larger one. I know that goes against everything we've ever known but the Dan Ingrams and Cousin Brucies have moved on. You won't find them in the large markets anymore.

You may think that a small market station sounds like crud when you first hear it but listen to the local ads, the wide open formats and people on the air who playing to the people and not the rating book. Even if it sounds like bad at least it's not boring and predictable.

The trouble is even small market radio stations that are locally programed are getting hard to find. Many go satellite after morning drive. Such is the state of radio today.
 
Mike Sheridan said:
I think if you want to hear something really different, something fun, something that catches your ear and draws you in... you need to go to a smaller market, not a larger one. I know that goes against everything we've ever known but the Dan Ingrams and Cousin Brucies have moved on. You won't find them in the large markets anymore.
Click to expand...

Actually Mike, I have thought this for about 20 years. A friend of mine used to work/live in Bluefield, WV for Adventure Radio--they also owned WFMX for a time. Adventure has a good little cluster of stations up there and the variety from the other locally-owned stations is very decent. Over the years, I enjoy traveling to Bluefield just to hear some decent, better radio. So, folks, head up I-77 (2-3 hours) and park at the East River Mountain Park overlooking Bluefield for some splendid radio reception--and better radio.

Mike Sheridan said:
The trouble is even small market radio stations that are locally programed are getting hard to find. Many go satellite after morning drive. Such is the state of radio today.
Click to expand...

I think some satellite formats sound better than some of Clear Channel or Entercom's fare. In fact, I hear stuff on 97.3 WKBC that I don't hear on other Hot AC stations and I personally like it. Now, the local "mom & pop" programmer will mostly do better than satellite but I'm comparing satellite to corporate.

Eric
 
If anyone wondered why CBS Radio held onto Charlotte, while selling several other decent markets, now you know! I am sure CBS, CC, and Entercom are responsible for the added counties,

Whether stations are comparable with other top 25 markets really doesn't matter - there are millions of dollars (maybe billions) that are spent in just Top 25 markets! Makes no difference whether stations are good or not. It is all relative to the numbers.
 
After listening to the Big 89 WLS rewind on Memorial Day it became very clear just how horrible radio is now, large or small market! The night or overnight "proving ground" is gone now. Of course, that is a topic for another thread!
 
In some ways this will be great for Charlotte ad agencies, but I hope they're prepared for the huge CPP jump! You know stations will start raising their rates. I'd hate to be a Mom and Pop business in that market!
 
::) No, Wrong answer, I'd love to be a Mom and Pop in that market and I'd crucify CC and the others with "Dollar a Hollar to start with!....and build from that!..I just may cocme back out of retirement..Ya'll are getting me fired up and I'm tired of fishing, and golf! APE
 
I think MaskedMan was talking the mom and pop business who already can't afford the advertising rates - and will be able to afford them even less. It will present an opportunity for mom and pop broadcasters. See other thread on the subject.
 
Problem is, you can't pay the light bill with "dollar a holler" spots these days, even in itty bitty markets, particularly if you have any live talent at all. I have competitors who do it, and I wonder how they get by with it. Then, I realize that they don't...they lose money hand over fist, then make it up selling block time to the snake handlers on weekends (yes, they really ARE snake handlers...welcome to Kentucky :D ). Luckily, my clients have learned that you get what you pay for. I won't do dollar spots even to get a client hooked in the beginning, because once you cheapen yourself to that level, it's nearly impossible to ever get anything more. I'm personally of the school of thought that it's better to create a quality product and charge a little extra for it. Luckily, our advertisers go along with it.

Sorry, I realize I've strayed just a bit from the topic at hand, so I'll address that too. I believe all this really means, at the end of the day, is that the big clusters in town will be putting more money in the bank. Truly, it doesn't make much sense if you think about it, but it's reality. All the big signals in the market will be able to jack up their rates to "top 25" prices, when in fact, not a single new listener will have the availability to hear the signals. So, ad buyers will be paying more money to reach listeners that they were already reaching with the lower-priced ads. Listeners in the additional counties always heard the ads, but very rarely were the big agencies and buyers paying for those listeners. I'm betting that now, they'll have to start doing so.
 
93Q said:
After listening to the Big 89 WLS rewind on Memorial Day it became very clear just how horrible radio is now, large or small market! The night or overnight "proving ground" is gone now. Of course, that is a topic for another thread!
Click to expand...

Amen, we can't talk on the radio anymore and that's only part of the problem!

I worked in the overnight "proving ground" for awhile and while I didn't make a fortune it was a wage I could live on as a single guy with no family. The station I worked for had no commercials on the overnight show but a live person was there. Now days there is a full spot load overnight and no jock. Some don't even bother to voice track. They just don't care.

It's a shame because I had a very loyal audience overnight and I was happy to talk to them and play muisc for the ones who had to work third shift or just couldn't sleep. I'm very thankful for the experience.
 
Broker, I don't think you strayed too far. Frankly, there are lots of people making a good living oprating mom and pop stations and selling dollar-a-hollar commercials. The key is mom and pop must work there!!

And it is OK to sell some weekends to snake handlers, isn't it? I realize it may not be great radio, but if it keeps the lights on for some good local radio during the week, that is OK. Right?
 
Worst case scenario, if the snake handlers keep good local radio on during the week, then that's fine. However, I think everybody (except the snake handlers), and the industry in general, is in better shape if we are able to create value and confidence in our product and sell the spots for more than a buck each. I've seen situations where two operators in the same market are so focused on undercutting each other that both end up not being able to make ends meet. Once they've both lowered their rates to rock-bottom, it's almost impossible for radio to ever thrive in that market again. I mean, at the end of the day, we can all better-afford to pay talent and keep good radio going when we get five or ten bucks a spot than when we get a buck a bark, whether mom and pop run the place or not. Dollar-a-hollar is significantly less in 2007 than it was in 1990, or even 1980.

Let's do some quick math...let's say you get a buck a bark, and sell 10 ads per hour, 6a - 8p. That's $140/day. Let's assume you sell that amount of ads every single day, all year long. That works out to just about $4,250/month. Even if the station is paid for, there's no way mom and pop can pay their personal bills, keep the lights on at the station, and still have money left over for a staff. I know people who do it, but I wouldn't say they make a "good living". The fact is, you have to have something, whether it's higher priced ads or snake handlers on weekends, to keep the transmitter on and make a living.
 
Broker! You are 100% correct here. No one can survive on the numbers posted.
 
I don't believe anyone is charging $1 for commercials any more. The "dollar-a-hollar" phrase is at least 40 years old. Factor in inflation and we are talking at lease "ten-dollars-a-hollar".

You are right, no one could do it for a dollar, but at ten, it could work. If they are charging a dollar, then they just have more dollars than sense!
 
Just curious .... what does Entercom have to do with the market size change in Charlotte? They don't own any stations in Charlotte? Will someone explain to me. Thanks.
 
I've been around since 1964 in radio and I was the one who mentioned the phrase "Dollar a Holler" I don't remember any of ther stations actually charging just a buck, that was just a saying that got started for "really cheap spots" I can remember 3 Bucks though, if you bought a package!
 
I remember $1 spots in Wilmington (WGNI, WMFD, WHSL, WKLM) in the 60s - but I doubt anyone ever paid a buck in Raleigh or Charlotte. Still, I stand by my earlier comment that with inflation, the dollar-a-hollar spot is now selling for $10.
 
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