K-Surf 1260 growing playlist

[davideduardo]

Aye, my eyes just glaze over what you've posted for the at least 10 millionth time. CF's post was obviously said in jest

I did not sense any "funnin'" in the post. I see sarcasm and rejection of the idea that radio executives and programmers don't see format opportunities and chances to innovate or expand.

, c'mon Sr Gleason, I know you have a sense of humor.. Like some posts on Facebook, this was one you could have passed up if you had tried really really hard!! HAHAHA (of course you'll reply to this as well, God Bless Ya)

Your challenge to not respond was not accepted. And that's because a re-reading of the original convinces me even more that it conveys an attitude of disdain for those who work in radio today.

On the other hand, I would not have to post the same things about the reality of sales and programming were we not chastised by certain posters for not having 2,000 song libraries and 60-year-old tunes on the air.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Grammar

Now you can see why I usually let it go!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I did not sense any "funnin'" in the post. I see sarcasm and rejection of the idea that radio executives and programmers don't see format opportunities and chances to innovate or expand.



Your challenge to not respond was not accepted. And that's because a re-reading of the original convinces me even more that it conveys an attitude of disdain for those who work in radio today.

On the other hand, I would not have to post the same things about the reality of sales and programming were we not chastised by certain posters for not having 2,000 song libraries and 60-year-old tunes on the air.

You are both right - as Super says, it is partly in jest, as David notes it is somewhat sarcastic. But to the extent sarcasm is used, it is not to put down anything or anyone, but to call attention to a special issue that more than a few people care about in a short snappy way.

Most of all it was intended for ATSF who (like Oldies) could use a little support. He has found a treasure trove of great music that he can enjoy for years. But because it is out of the format that his age-group is "supposed" to like, and he is posting on a radio board where the common zeitgeist was spelled out very eloquently on this thread by Mr. Simpson who said (in reference to Saul's management of KSUR) "Doing things that research shows time and again drive sellable audiences away isn’t courage. It’s bad business. And if you’re doing it as a hobby with no real plan to break even, nor turn a profit, it also isn’t courage. It’s pointlessness." , he is likely to be chastised a lot like Oldies is. I actually want new posters with different opinions to join the board; it makes for a much more interesting dynamic.

I think by now David knows that I know all of the points he made in response. In fact I could have typed most of his response myself. The point is nothing David said is incorrect. But he will have to admit that nothing I said is incorrect either, regardless of how "obtuse" (thank you!) the presentation. It is just that I made my point from the point of view of a frustrated radio user that radio rarely serves rather than the "ratings and dollars mean everything" point of view that is usually spouted around here. In this rare case, KSUR IS serving his needs, but all most posters can do is trash the station for doing so.

 

[davideduardo]

I think by now David knows that I know all of the points he made in response. In fact I could have typed most of his response myself. The point is nothing David said is incorrect. But he will have to admit that nothing I said is incorrect either, regardless of how "obtuse" (thank you!) the presentation. It is just that I made my point from the point of view of a frustrated radio user that radio rarely serves rather than the "ratings and dollars mean everything" point of view that is usually spouted around here. In this rare case, KSUR IS serving his needs, but all most posters can do is trash the station for doing so.

That's a good point.

Part of the function of a board like this is to answer questions, satisfy curiosities and clear misconceptions of people with no radio experience or new users of the site.

I remember back in the last half of the 80's I was one of a crew of moderator/admins on a CIS DOS forum (and also on a very early Windows group). We knew that there would be at least one question every few weeks about "I installed Sidekick and now WordPerfect (won't load)(won't do mail merge)(crashes). So the same answer about optimizing memory to run a TSR had to be issued, including advising the purchase of QEMM or 386Max or some such. Besides cursing Philippe Kahn, we had to go through the same explanation over and over, long before the existence of macros or copy & paste.

The "frustrated radio user" does not understand why agencies and advertisers don't target certain ages. They don't understand the decline in billings in the last decade. They don't understand that we can talk to a few selected listeners and "know" what the vast majority of other listeners want. And so on.

Of course, I fear that radio professionals will see too much "if only I was the programmer" stuff and run away. On the other hand, this board is a great combination or users and pros, which makes it fun to most.

On lots of other groups (such as some industry sites that let users post responses) we find way too much "I'll give you a little useless information in the hopes that you'll pay me to consult you". Fortunately this group is free of that.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

That's a good point.

Part of the function of a board like this is to answer questions, satisfy curiosities and clear misconceptions of people with no radio experience or new users of the site.

I remember back in the last half of the 80's I was one of a crew of moderator/admins on a CIS DOS forum (and also on a very early Windows group). We knew that there would be at least one question every few weeks about "I installed Sidekick and now WordPerfect (won't load)(won't do mail merge)(crashes). So the same answer about optimizing memory to run a TSR had to be issued, including advising the purchase of QEMM or 386Max or some such. Besides cursing Philippe Kahn, we had to go through the same explanation over and over, long before the existence of macros or copy & paste.

The "frustrated radio user" does not understand why agencies and advertisers don't target certain ages. They don't understand the decline in billings in the last decade. They don't understand that we can talk to a few selected listeners and "know" what the vast majority of other listeners want. And so on.

Of course, I fear that radio professionals will see too much "if only I was the programmer" stuff and run away. On the other hand, this board is a great combination or users and pros, which makes it fun to most.

On lots of other groups (such as some industry sites that let users post responses) we find way too much "I'll give you a little useless information in the hopes that you'll pay me to consult you". Fortunately this group is free of that.

David, you so spot on.


I assume that most agencies avoid 55+ because while they have disposable income, it’s hard change their buying habits with an ad. No matter how many times they hear a clever ad for Brand B, it won’t convince them to drop Brand A.

I’ve used that argument with people my age (I’m 55) and they generally agree.

 

[davideduardo]

David, you so spot on.


I assume that most agencies avoid 55+ because while they have disposable income, it’s hard change their buying habits with an ad. No matter how many times they hear a clever ad for Brand B, it won’t convince them to drop Brand A.

I’ve used that argument with people my age (I’m 55) and they generally agree.

Yes, you have the essence of it.

It's been explained at some very large LA and NYC agencies to me as a question of Return on Investment. The cost of making a sale to older demos is very high, sometimes erasing any profit. Much is caused by existing brand preferences, some is just the heightened skepticism towards advertising puffery by seniors. And some of the reason is that the expensive creative was done to lifestyle target younger consumers.

Still, seniors are receptive to ads for financial planning, new medications, leisure options and comfort accessories (My Pillow, anyone?) as many of those products represent things that have not been used before so there are no brand preferences.

When I was a teen wandering through Central America, a folded shirt or jacket was a swell pillow. Today, those $60 and up comfort pillows look enticing! It's a question of needs; on my Maslow pyramid comfort is a lot more important than it was a half-century ago.

 

[oldies76]

But he will have to admit that nothing I said is incorrect either, regardless of how "obtuse" (thank you!) the presentation.

Watch out with that "obtuse" word. The warden might give you 2 months in the hole!

 

[oldies76]

On the other hand, I would not have to post the same things about the reality of sales and programming were we not chastised by certain posters for not having 2,000 song libraries and 60-year-old tunes on the air.

Just valid and real opinions, nothing else. No chastising here.

1200 is approximately my limit and tunes from 1967-1987 is the sweet spot.

If 1260 wasn't playing the broad library you seem to be against, we wouldn't be having this wonderful discussion.

Spend a weekend with them, you might actually enjoy it.

 

[davideduardo]

Watch out with that "obtuse" word. The warden might give you 2 months in the hole!

The warden is off dealing with the Epstine affair.

 

[davideduardo]

Spend a weekend with them, you might actually enjoy it.

Now there is a specious assumption!

Just because I programmed those songs when they were currents does not mean I want to hear them today.

I'll take some of the 80's tunes. But anything pre-Eurythmics is pretty much off my radar.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

But he will have to admit that nothing I said is incorrect either, regardless of how "obtuse" (thank you!) the presentation. It is just that I made my point from the point of view of a frustrated radio user that radio rarely serves rather than the "ratings and dollars mean everything" point of view that is usually spouted around here. In this rare case, KSUR IS serving his needs, but all most posters can do is trash the station for doing so.

"You understand me? Catch my drift? Or am I being obtuse?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdUsJU-cQ0

 

[michael hagerty]

Just valid and real opinions, nothing else. No chastising here.

1200 is approximately my limit and tunes from 1967-1987 is the sweet spot.

If 1260 wasn't playing the broad library you seem to be against, we wouldn't be having this wonderful discussion.

Spend a weekend with them, you might actually enjoy it.

Nobody has said KSUR is not enjoyable. Just that it has no path to financial success---and that Saul, when he hits that realization about one of 1260's formats (roughly every 6 months to three years), switches to something else. Now that he has two FMs (88.1 and 105.1) with HD subchannels he can program, he has options beyond an AM stick with its own expenses.

 

[oldies76]

"You understand me? Catch my drift? Or am I being obtuse?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdUsJU-cQ0

One of the BEST movies ever made. In fact, it's rated #1 on IMDb, just ahead of the Godfather.

 

[davideduardo]

Nobody has said KSUR is not enjoyable. Just that it has no path to financial success---and that Saul, when he hits that realization about one of 1260's formats (roughly every 6 months to three years), switches to something else. Now that he has two FMs (88.1 and 105.1) with HD subchannels he can program, he has options beyond an AM stick with its own expenses.

As a former owner, I totally get Saul's outlook. He learned to like formats that nobody else would ever think of duplicating. And if that happened, or there was a better option, he flipped. Think jazz, classical and country.

That allowed a very inexpensive operation, and relatively secure cash flow. Since his principal station had no "purchase price" other than the gear, he does not have to pay down expensive financing.

I had a classical station in Quito. It was the second independent FM on the air in the market, and it was my toy station for a while because I liked to program music I could later listen to at home or in the car. Despite my best efforts, it did eventually make money. But I loved the "snob appeal" of owning the fine arts station in the market at about age 21... in other words, an ego trip for a classics lover.

But were the costs to have been too high, I would have gone hard rock in the late 60's. That would have been fun, too. All I would have had to do was install smoke extractor fans in the studio.

 

[DrAkbar]

But were the costs to have been too high, I would have gone hard rock in the late 60's. That would have been fun, too. All I would have had to do was install smoke extractor fans in the studio.

..and remove all overhead lighting, leaving only the bulbs in the VU meters!

 

[TheBigA]

..and remove all overhead lighting, leaving only the bulbs in the VU meters!

New meaning to Paradise by the dashboard light

 

[davideduardo]

..and remove all overhead lighting, leaving only the bulbs in the VU meters!

And maybe the lights in those clip on stylus lights hi-fi enthusiasts used. Of course, the "clip" in "clip on" suggests an alternate usage.

 

[MTNProductions]

I have to bump this thread, because I have not been a fan of this station, except I first listened to “K-Surf” that “Disco Saturday Night” is on late at night. I live in New York and I first heard this on “K-Surf” when it comes on at 10 PM depending on living in the Eastern time zone, and 7 PM pacific. I listened to it for the past 6 hours where this show ends at 4 AM, just two hours before sunrise which is Sunday morning.

Just to give you some heads up, “Disco Saturday Night” features retro dance mixes from the 1970’s through the 1980’s. Many of these songs that were played at Studio 54, Paradise Garage, and radio stations like WKTU in NYC when it was “Disco 92” and WBLS for years, so does WQHT’s “Hot 103” and “Hot 97” when New York City was hugely successful for dance music.

I listened to the show during breaks, Fred Missman was the guy who did the promos, but unfortunately, he retired a few weeks ago and replaced by Mike Johnson.

“Disco Saturday Night” is still a great show for people who stayed up all night listening to via stream like TuneIn for those of you would not be in LA, or people who were sleeping by not listening to “Disco Saturday Night”, or driving around if there were light traffic during after hours. Great to hear “Disco Saturday Night” once again.

 

[LKellerIII]

Nobody has said KSUR is not enjoyable. Just that it has no path to financial success---and that Saul, when he hits that realization about one of 1260's formats (roughly every 6 months to three years), switches to something else. Now that he has two FMs (88.1 and 105.1) with HD subchannels he can program, he has options beyond an AM stick with its own expenses.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record (so to speak), how does a low fidelity monaural AM even compete for the audience of average "Oldies" listeners? You can buy songs these days for $1.25. That's the equivalent to 16 cents back when these "Oldies" first hit the charts as new songs, when 45 rpm records listed for $1.00. Or you can build a Spotify, Pandora, or Apple playlist for a low monthly fee. Then you can hear the songs you want when you want to hear them - and all in reasonably high-fidelity stereo. Most of the base of potential listeners to 1260 grew up listening to FM radio - even old Boomers like me (68 y.o. this month) were primarily FM listeners by age 18 or 19.

 

[TheBigA]

Or you can build a Spotify, Pandora, or Apple playlist for a low monthly fee.

Building a playlist takes time and effort. Turning on the radio is free and easy. And you can do both. They're not exclusive.