K31GL APPLIES FOR RF-33

[Bob E. Nelson]

MAKO's K31GL-D currently operating on RF-31 with 8,000 watts has applied to move to RF-33 with the maximum low power allowed of 15,000 watts. They cite interference due to being wedged into RF-30 (KMPX) and RF-32 (KDAF).

I realize that a lot of these low power digital facilities are of little interest to most people. K31GL is a rare exception, IMHO. 31-3 (soon to be 33-3 if all goes well and they change PSIP info) carries ``The Cool TV'', which is essentially like rewinding to MTV circa 1985. It's all music videos, 24/7 without reality shows and other clutter.

I, for one, hope they get approved for the new channel since it ought to put the signal at parity with the other digital low power stations at Cedar Hill. Remarkably, way up in Frisco (40 air miles from the facilty) I get a reasonable signal, with some dropouts, from the current K31GL on RF-31 and solid signals from KJJM-LD (RF-34) and KATA-CD (RF-50).

 

[eskipper411]

That is great! But one question, what does the -CD mean?

 

[azumanga]

"CD" is Class-A Digital. Would make more sense if they used "AD" instead.

 

[dhett]

Actually, it's not -CD, it's -DC, for Digital Class A. Why? Not a clue.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

Actually, it's not -CD, it's -DC, for Digital Class A.

Whoops! I knew better. All I can say is ``Look out! He's got a nug!''.

 

[newsmark]

Whoops! I knew better. All I can say is ``Look out! He's got a nug!''.

And he lies awake at night wondering if there's really a dog.

 

[eskipper411]

so when will this switch happen?

 

[arnoldevns]

KPFW-LD has also applied for 33. They have a fairly compelling reason since they're currently on channel 61.

Curious, if K31GL moves to 33, wouldn't they want to avoid having a PSIP of 33.1 and 33.2 since KDAF does?

 

[eskipper411]

No, since 33 is on 32 and 31 on 33 all it will do is move 31 ahead of KDAF.

 

[arnoldevns]

No, since 33 is on 32 and 31 on 33 all it will do is move 31 ahead of KDAF.

I am totally confused by this statement.

Let me back up and re-state this: wouldn't K31GL want to continue to map to 31.1 etc. if they go to 33? While it's possible to have two channels map to 33.1 it just doesn't seem like something they would want to do.

 

[eskipper411]

No, since 33 is on 32 and 31 on 33 all it will do is move 31 ahead of KDAF.

I am totally confused by this statement.

Let me back up and re-state this: wouldn't K31GL want to continue to map to 31.1 etc. if they go to 33? While it's possible to have two channels map to 33.1 it just doesn't seem like something they would want to do.

Let me clarify... KDAF is on 32 and K31GL will soon be on 33 so if KDAF is on 32 then KDAF will come after KDAF if they want to map to 33.

 

[w9wi]

Actually, it's not -CD, it's -DC, for Digital Class A. Why? Not a clue.

I've seen the FCC do it both ways.....

It says -CD in their Broadcast Actions and Broadcast Applications Public Notices. (usually) It says -DC in TV Query and occasionally in Broadcast Actions and Applications.

Of course what really counts is what's on the licensee -- and I'm too lazy to look that up...

 

[arnoldevns]

No, since 33 is on 32 and 31 on 33 all it will do is move 31 ahead of KDAF.

I am totally confused by this statement.

Let me back up and re-state this: wouldn't K31GL want to continue to map to 31.1 etc. if they go to 33? While it's possible to have two channels map to 33.1 it just doesn't seem like something they would want to do.

Let me clarify... KDAF is on 32 and K31GL will soon be on 33 so if KDAF is on 32 then KDAF will come after KDAF if they want to map to 33.

Sorry, that only confused me more.

I'll try to make my point a better way.
You are suggesting that if K31GL moves to 33 (which is entirely possible) they would map their channels to 33.x
However, KDAF already maps their channels to 33.x
So it would create this situation on my TV:
33.1 KDAF CW
33.2 KDAF LATV
33.1 K31GL Genesis TV Network English
33.2 K31GL Genesis TV Network Spanish
33.3 K31GL The Cool TV
33.4 K31GL AMG-TV

I am saying that K31GL might want to continue to map their channels over to 31.x regardless of what frequency they are on to avoid the obvious confusion that would come from mapping to 33.x. Oh, and of course the K31GL calls would change to something with 33 in it, or perhaps they'd go ahead and get something more normal.

 

[eskipper411]

No, since 33 is on 32 and 31 on 33 all it will do is move 31 ahead of KDAF.

I am totally confused by this statement.

Let me back up and re-state this: wouldn't K31GL want to continue to map to 31.1 etc. if they go to 33? While it's possible to have two channels map to 33.1 it just doesn't seem like something they would want to do.

Let me clarify... KDAF is on 32 and K31GL will soon be on 33 so if KDAF is on 32 then KDAF will come after KDAF if they want to map to 33.

Sorry, that only confused me more.

I'll try to make my point a better way.
You are suggesting that if K31GL moves to 33 (which is entirely possible) they would map their channels to 33.x
However, KDAF already maps their channels to 33.x
So it would create this situation on my TV:
33.1 KDAF CW
33.2 KDAF LATV
33.1 K31GL Genesis TV Network English
33.2 K31GL Genesis TV Network Spanish
33.3 K31GL The Cool TV
33.4 K31GL AMG-TV

I am saying that K31GL might want to continue to map their channels over to 31.x regardless of what frequency they are on to avoid the obvious confusion that would come from mapping to 33.x. Oh, and of course the K31GL calls would change to something with 33 in it, or perhaps they'd go ahead and get something more normal.

You got it!

 

[TexasTom]

That K31GL would map as 33.1 through 33.4 if they move to RF 33 is just incorrect.

Under FCC rules to cover this situation, they would instead need to map to KDAF's RF channel, which is 32. So while they would physically broadcast on channel 33, they would map as 32.1 through 32.4. Not only would it violate FCC rules for K31GL to map as 33.1 through 33.4, but I suspect that Tribune (owner of KDAF) would make a very loud stink to the FCC if Mako (the owner of K31GL) did this.

As an alternative, maybe the FCC would allow them to continue to map to 31.1 through 31.4 -- although allowing them to do so would create other problems (if someone else begins broadcasting on RF 31 at some point, what would they map to?).

 

[JHBrandt]

As an alternative, maybe the FCC would allow them to continue to map to 31.1 through 31.4 -- although allowing them to do so would create other problems (if someone else begins broadcasting on RF 31 at some point, what would they map to?).

Mapping to 33.x is out of the question. I did some experimenting June 12 and discovered at least two converter box brands (Apex and Philco/Magnavox) won't properly handle two identical virtual channels. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others as well. These bugs could cause viewers to lose KDAF. KDAF wouldn't stand for that.

If the FCC let them map to 31.x, a new broadcaster on channel 31 could theoretically map to 32.x, thus closing the loop (32 maps to 33.x, 33 maps to 31.x, and 31 maps to 32.x). But that'd be confusing; better to stick with the rule and have 33 map to 32.x to begin with.

It's probably a moot point because I doubt the FCC will approve the application. KPFW applied for channel 33 first and has a better reason to get it: they're out-of-core. (In KPFW's case, the FCC could more easily waive their channel mapping rule and let KPFW continue mapping to 61.x, since we know there'll never be a new broadcaster on channel 61 to worry about.)

 

[arnoldevns]

TexasTom and JHBrandt make my point with facts in hand. Thank you.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that KPFW gets 33 for the reasons stated above. K31GL (in my opinion) probably doesn't need to do much to their signal anyway. I get them just fine on a little loop antenna up here at my home in Plano.

 

[JHBrandt]

I looked at the application more closely and there's a big change I missed before. Their current signal is broadcast from an antenna 330 meters (1100 feet) high. The proposed signal would be broadcast from an antenna only 180 meters (600 feet) high.

Even with the power increase that's going to reduce their coverage area. According to tvfool.com their signal strength would drop by a whopping 17.7 dB at my home!

I don't think K31GL is doing this voluntarily. My wild guess is that KMPX is complaining of adjacent-channel interference. That would explain the frequency change. They may be switching to a lower antenna to avoid similar problems with KDAF, but that makes me wonder why they didn't pick a friendlier channel to move to. If they were to move to channel 21 instead of 33, they'd not only avoid the conflict with KPFW, but also would no longer be adjacent to any full-power station.

 

[TexasTom]

I can't really see why KMPX would have any interference complaints with K31GL on its current channel, as long as K31GL is complying with the proper masking (filtering) requirements for an adjacent channel situation and is otherwise operating as they should.

Since the KMPX and K31GL tower sites are only 190 meters apart (a bit over 600 feet), and KMPX transmits with 100 times as much power from an antenna that is higher up, the K31GL signal will generally be greater than 20 dB less than KMPX -- insufficient to cause interference.

K31GL may be looking for the channel change to avoid receiving interference from KMPX, but not for causing interference to KMPX.

As for the fact that they're moving 150 meters down the same tower as they are currently on, my suspicion here is that the rent is less for the lower position and they're trying to cut costs. But that is just a guess, of course.

 

[JHBrandt]

Thanks. I didn't really see how a little 15 kW station could be causing KMPX interference either, but it was the only plausible explanation I could come up with. I didn't think interference from KMPX made any sense, because they'd face a similar situation on channel 33 from KDAF.

It appears K31GL and KNAV are colocating with KODF's antenna on that tower, likely to save costs in this economy. I didn't realize their tower space was leased, but that would explain why K31GL is moving down to KODF's spot, rather than vice versa.

It's a shame, though. K31GL is my favorite LP station, and the lower antenna could make receiving them quite a challenge at my home, which would be near the fringe of their new, smaller coverage area.