But that's exactly what's killing rock as a viable radio format! There was a time when rock radio was dominant. Now, it's been niched to death. You got classic rock, you got alternative rock, soft rock, active rock, all kinds of rock. They're targeting the fringes and each gets a couple shares. But if they could get everyone back in the tent, they'd get a 6. But rock fans don't want to listen to other people's music. Country is different. Country is about the big tent. It's got artists who range in age from 20 to 60, with styles that range from pop to outlaw to traditional to alternative, with cowboy hats or baseball caps, boots or sneakers. That's how country became #1. Big tent, not fringes. That's what you do if you want to win. Competition isn't about showing up. It's about winning.
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KB 1520 to ESPN
- Thread starter JimH
- Start date
But that's exactly what's killing rock as a viable radio format! There was a time when rock radio was dominant. Now, it's been niched to death. You got classic rock, you got alternative rock, soft rock, active rock, all kinds of rock. They're targeting the fringes and each gets a couple shares. But if they could get everyone back in the tent, they'd get a 6. But rock fans don't want to listen to other people's music. Country is different. Country is about the big tent. It's got artists who range in age from 20 to 60, with styles that range from pop to outlaw to traditional to alternative, with cowboy hats or baseball caps, boots or sneakers. That's how country became #1. Big tent, not fringes. That's what you do if you want to win. Competition isn't about showing up. It's about winning.
NPR is not Liberal. Conservatives think it is because the have sound bites from Democrats or liberal lobbies. They do the same thing for Conservatives. Anyone who opposing their views is Liberal to some Conservatives. Listen to FOX RADIO news. They do the same thing. No one calls them Liberal. They may actually be the most fair & balanced.
That's called "maturing of a format". Country WILL undergo that process - becoming "niched to death". Your corporate buddies will lead the way. Radio goes where the audience is, and tries to carve out a chunk of that audience either to improve station ratings, or knock down the competition. The only reason that country gets big shares in some markets is because there are few stations doing it. Overall, rock still gets better numbers - it's just that they're split between more stations. The same thing will happen to country. At one time, country audiences were seen as "too loyal" to split. That time has passed - helped along by corporate broadcasters who have thrown away the relationship between local jocks and local audiences.
Earlier in this thread, you claimed it already had. You said "There's considerable diversification. You have several flavors of country now - just as you have multiple approaches to rock." Now you're backing off and saying it WILL happen. Maybe you don't know what you're talking about.
The fact is that there is no motivation for big radio companies to niche a format to death. The niching of rock happened before consolidation. But as far as country is concerned, there was an ill-fated experiment in the 90s with "Young Country," and after that, it's been focused on building the big tent. That's what makes country as a format strong, and delivers a large, diverse audience to advertisers. That's why when a country competitor appears, regardless of the owner, it focuses on hot country, with a tight playlist and no DJs, and it has generally done very well.
the day entercom took thelake off the air replaced it WBEN programing, money and rating mean nothing.........removing unique programing and replacing with it duplicate programming in the same market at the same time, is not trying to make money........END OF STORY
my old man can only listen to rush limpballs on one station at a time..........it is no longer about money,business or ratings
my old man can only listen to rush limpballs on one station at a time..........it is no longer about money,business or ratings
If you've been paying attention, you should recognize that the process has started in some markets, primarily in the west and south. Take a look at the Nashville market and tell me all those country stations are playing the same format. C'mon - even you're smarter than that. There are a growing number of markets with an increasing number of country stations. Before consolidation, it was individual station owners looking to slice away a piece of somebody else's pie. Now, it's different groups looking to grab a hunk of pie - or a group like CC trying to slice a sliver off another group's station that's big enough to shift rankings in CC's favor.
As any experienced PD knows, you can make a splash with a jock-free, tight-playlist station, but it won't have staying power. At some point, you have to evolve it into a real, relatable radio station. If there's a heritage station that doesn't panic, the "new guys" will become a blip, not a real competitor.
Yet, Rush & Hannity are surrounded by local talk shows, local news, local weather, and local traffic. None of which was on KB. And the aforementioned built in 54+ audience of angry, old white men.
According to published reports, it appears the Sabres will be simulcast on 550 WGR and 1520 WWKB. This surely will fill in the eastern null created by the WGR night time pattern. The 550-1520 simulcast also creates new possibilities for Entercom's WCMF Rochester, which had been the Sabres affiliate. This may be the main reason Entercom is flipping KB to sports: To get WCMF back to its music programming at night.
It may be that the Sabres were more of a hindrance than a help to WCMF, not only at night but for re-cycled cume listening the following morning. If (in fact) this is the case, simulcasting the Sabres games on WWKB gets the team into Rochester and allows WCMF to revert to its strength, thereby competing on an equal footing.
The 1520 signal is said to have ground wave-sky wave cancellation issues in parts of Rochester, but when the big 50 kw box and antenna system are properly operating, the station gets into Rochester reasonably well. And if the 50 kw signal is operating at full capabilities, the Sabres will get increased coverage, reaching potential listeners and fans throughout the northeast, "17 states and two countries," as the promo went.
Additionally, ESPN 1520 becomes an 'in-format' spillover station for WGR. WWKB won't challenge WGR, but it will be a compliant appendage to WGR. You need not be a PD or Buffalo sports fan to know that 'local' wins in this city. Research and Arbitron ratings have pointed to this fact for years. Flipping KB to Sports, especially and strong brand like ESPN, appears to be a smart move smart by Entercom.
It may be that the Sabres were more of a hindrance than a help to WCMF, not only at night but for re-cycled cume listening the following morning. If (in fact) this is the case, simulcasting the Sabres games on WWKB gets the team into Rochester and allows WCMF to revert to its strength, thereby competing on an equal footing.
The 1520 signal is said to have ground wave-sky wave cancellation issues in parts of Rochester, but when the big 50 kw box and antenna system are properly operating, the station gets into Rochester reasonably well. And if the 50 kw signal is operating at full capabilities, the Sabres will get increased coverage, reaching potential listeners and fans throughout the northeast, "17 states and two countries," as the promo went.
Additionally, ESPN 1520 becomes an 'in-format' spillover station for WGR. WWKB won't challenge WGR, but it will be a compliant appendage to WGR. You need not be a PD or Buffalo sports fan to know that 'local' wins in this city. Research and Arbitron ratings have pointed to this fact for years. Flipping KB to Sports, especially and strong brand like ESPN, appears to be a smart move smart by Entercom.
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nonsense.............
they are just making sure the political viewpoint on AM radio is the republicon viewpoint, a propaganda machine.
this has nothing to with money or business or ratings..........
they have two channels playing the exact same programing, in the same area, at the same time...........when they turned THELAKE into rush limpballs and kept rush on WBEN........they stopped trying to making money, end of story
trying to claim anything otherwise is a complete and total lie
they are just making sure the political viewpoint on AM radio is the republicon viewpoint, a propaganda machine.
this has nothing to with money or business or ratings..........
they have two channels playing the exact same programing, in the same area, at the same time...........when they turned THELAKE into rush limpballs and kept rush on WBEN........they stopped trying to making money, end of story
trying to claim anything otherwise is a complete and total lie
The three top-rated FM country stations in Nashville are all playing basically same songs. You can check their playlists. Anyone else isn't competitive.
The three top-rated FM country stations in Kansas City are playing the same songs.
In fact, check the play lists of all the country stations in all the markets I listed earlier in this thread and tell me if you see anyone playing anything other than the top hits. And as I said earlier, it has nothing to do with ownership or consolidation. I has to do with winning. Tyler Media, a small local owner in Oklahoma City, COULD have aimed for a sub-genre of country, but instead they went song for song with Clear Channel. No one is doing what you're saying. If you find someone, please post their call letters and market rank.
Exactly what I said in post #30:
What Entercom is doing is creating a companion station for GR. Lots of sports content available, so it might work this time. Plus they'll be able to promote it on GR.
Noticed today KB was simulcasting WGR for the Bills game. KB has a very poor signal into Rochester. I don't see it as a substitute for WCMF and 950 AM in Rochester for football or hockey.
Oh, they're "playing basically the same songs", so the rotations, delivery, song categorization, gold rotations and all the rest must be the same. They're all basically the same radio station, right? You could say the same thing about many CHR/HotAC/AC stations - yet they sound remarkably different.
Have you listened to radio in Nashville? WSIX, WKDF and WSM-FM consistently rank in that order among the country stations. If they're "playing basically the same songs", why does WSIX consistently win? Why is WKDF consistently the #2 country station, and why is WSM-FM consistently 3rd? These, BTW, are the only Arbitron subscribers. How do you know that the rest "aren't competitive"? Are they targeting the same demographics? Who's set up to be a spoiler?
Interestingly, the #1 station in Nashville is WJXA FM - the only Adult Contemporary - with more than twice the 12+ numbers of WSIX.
Country is just another format these days, with the same strengths and weaknesses of other formats. The point is that country no longer has listeners that are any more loyal than any other format. Loyalty is based on how well the stations service the audience. If there's a big enough country audience, somebody is likely to take a run at grabbing a chunk of that audience. Buffalo/Rochester may be behind the curve on this, or it may be that no full-market FMs are doing poorly enough to really take on WYRK or WBEE.
Yep. If there was only one country station, it probably would outdraw WJXA. Just as WYRK, is the #1 music station in Buffalo. From what I see on the Nashville board, a lot of people wonder why some new AC competitor doesn't come along, just as Buffalonians wonder about country. But in Nashville, competition hasn't led to improved quality, as the OP suggested. Just three stations basically doing the same thing, getting ratings that are very similar. Just as an observation, the #1 country station in Nashville is the one owned by Clear Channel that programs, as you'd probably guess, the most syndication of the three.
My point here is that if and when country competitors have come into a market, they haven't come in as "Outlaw Country" or Guy Country or any sub-genre. They've come in as a Hot Country station, basically playing the same songs as the station they're attacking. So far, you haven't presented me with any evidence to the contrary, so I will just assume you have none.
I think Buffalo has too many right now. If I can offer a radical idea, get WWWS to move to 1520!
Compare the signal strength of 1400 over the core urban parts of the city to the signal strength of 1520, and this doesn't look like such a good idea all of a sudden. When then-WYSL moved from the Larkin warehouse rooftop to Grider Street in the late '70s, they couldn't have (completely inadvertently) picked a better location for the eventual WWWS format. Even with 50,000 watts against 1400's kilowatt, 1520 still doesn't have the same building penetration that 1400 does in the parts of the city where it matters.
The ratings really aren't that similar. They are locked into their ranking, meaning that they continue to do the same-old same-old, like most corporate stations. You call it "Hot Country". Most people these days would call it "Country". You don't really know the demographic breakdowns for the Nashville stations, or the rotations which would skew a station male or female, so your "assumption" pretty much proves the old adage about what happens when you "assume".
The detailed ratings can't be posted or discussed on message boards, as you well know.
Meanwhile, you've ignored every question I've posted in this thread.
I agree. And if they break down and buy an Optimod we might actually be able to hear what they are playing.
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I stumbled upon this station clear as glass when I was on vacation in Isle of Palms, South Carolina near Charleston. I knew that the left wing talk format wouldn't last too much longer. I think that the new ESPN affiliate does have some chances at ratings success because there are many remote areas throughout the Midwest, Northeast and Southeast that do not have local stations that carry ESPN programming that many after sunset radio listeners are after, and this is an issue that I believe WWKB will help address.
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