KB 1520 to ESPN

[fybush]

Not one of those listeners in "the Midwest, Northeast and Southeast" will do a thing for WWKB's "ratings success" unless their home address is in Erie or Niagara counties and they're carrying an Arbitron book. The signal may go all over the place, but the only numbers that matter to Entercom's bottom line are the local ones in Buffalo.

What WWKB does - and the only thing that WWKB does - is to provide some overflow for WGR programming, to keep ESPN away from any other player in the market, and (as it has been for 15+ years now) to make sure nobody else can use the 1520 facility to compete with WGR and WBEN. That's it. That's all it is. That's all it will ever be so long as the Entercom cluster exists.

 

[greengrocer]

you are totally lying........this was done for one and only one reason.....to turn radio in buffalo into a right wing propaganda machine in buffalo

when you have rush limpballs on 2 stations in the same market at the same time.............you not trying to make money...........it is a indisputable fact

 

[greengrocer]

and another thing.....espn radio is not very good................it does not deserve play on two stations in the same market

 

[TheBigA]

Dude, the only person talking about Rush here is you. And ESPN is only on one station.

 

[greengrocer]

1. the rush thing totally relevant, and it proves entercom could care less about making money



and number 2 right now...........wgr and wwkb are playing the exact same ESPN programming

you are lying

 

[TheBigA]

1. the rush thing totally relevant, and it proves entercom could care less about making money

Says you. Entercom has a ton of money invested in local talent at WBEN, and spreading that investment over two stations helps them make money. What other format could they put on that signal-challenged frequency that would make more money? Country? Been there.

number 2 right now...........wgr and wwkb are playing the exact same ESPN programming

Midnight to 6 is an unrated day-part. Any amount of money they spend on programming after midnight is money down the drain.

 

[raccoonradio]

>>to turn radio in buffalo into a right wing propaganda machine in buffalo --when you have rush limpballs on 2 stations in the same market at the same time.............you not trying to make money...........it is a indisputable fact

You may have gotten your wish--the FM simulcast is ending (no idea what replaces it; another thread thinks a // of WGR... )

 

[fybush]

you are totally lying........this was done for one and only one reason.....to turn radio in buffalo into a right wing propaganda machine in buffalo

when you have rush limpballs on 2 stations in the same market at the same time.............you not trying to make money...........it is a indisputable fact

Thank you for contributing to the high level of discussion that makes these boards such a special place.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Heh. Grocer, have you seen the ratings? 'KB was struggling to hit a 1 share. Buffalo is as much (or little) of a "right wing propaganda machine" now as it was when 'KB was doing lib-talk.

I'm no Rush fan, but he makes money for stations - even with the "advertiser boycott". Talk about "limpballs", there's an apt description of the "boycott" by anti-Rush forces. I'm sure that Entercom derives more income from his show than it did from 24 hours of lib-talk on 'KB. Until listeners change that equation, expect Entercom - and every other broadcaster - to go where the money is.

 

[greengrocer]

the lake had way higher ratings than put rush limpballs on 107.7

it was not done for money

and the lake was a sport talk station that entercom bought and killed off

it does not matter if rush makes money, or not...............entercom's actions prove money was a non-factor when they turned the lake into rush ..................you are just lying if try to claim other wise...............

and then you are also trying to claim only republicons listen to the radio, which is also insane.....

Heh. Grocer, have you seen the ratings? 'KB was struggling to hit a 1 share. Buffalo is as much (or little) of a "right wing propaganda machine" now as it was when 'KB was doing lib-talk.

I'm no Rush fan, but he makes money for stations - even with the "advertiser boycott". Talk about "limpballs", there's an apt description of the "boycott" by anti-Rush forces. I'm sure that Entercom derives more income from his show than it did from 24 hours of lib-talk on 'KB. Until listeners change that equation, expect Entercom - and every other broadcaster - to go where the money is.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Objectively speaking, Entercom didn't "turn the Lake into Rush" any more than it turned it into Sandy Beach or Tom Bauerle.

Entercom believed that it could attract more listeners under the age of 50 by simulcasting WBEN on FM. Apparently that didn't occur as quickly as hoped. There were other reasons to consider the move to simulcast: (1) cell phones have chips that can be activated to incorporate an FM receiver, yet they are unable to receive AM, largely due to the inherent interference. (2) At the time Entercom made the decision, simulcasting AM news-talk formats on FM was the rage. The company made a similar move in New Orleans with WWL, a 50 kw blowtorch. (3) CBS began simulcasting some of its AM news-talkers on FM in markets much larger than Buffalo. (4) The gospel of radio, new testament, preached by the deacons of the business, proclaimed that news-talk had to be on FM because FM was the place to be.

Whether it's WWKB going from Progressive talk to ESPN, or WBEN simulcasting and ending the simulcast on 107.7, it's all about the Benjamins. As it was in the beginning, as it now and ever shall be...

 

[davideduardo]

Entercom believed that it could attract more listeners under the age of 50 by simulcasting WBEN on FM. Apparently that didn't occur as quickly as hoped.

The real issue is that the Wyoming County FM that is 107.7 puts a "usable" signal over less than 15% of the population of the Buffalo Arbitron MSA. It could not be heard comfortably in enough places to contribute to the ratings in any age group.

 

[davideduardo]

the lake had way higher ratings than put rush limpballs on 107.7

Aside from the disgusting ad hominem, the fact is that commercial radio stations are not judged by ratings but by billings and cash flow.

In any event, neither you nor I know the simulcast ratings for the FM, as they opted for single line reporting and the component parts of the simulcast are not available.

it was not done for money

Oh, yes it was. It was done to try to protect the #2 billing station in the market, WBEN.

it does not matter if rush makes money, or not...............entercom's actions prove money was a non-factor when they turned the lake into rush ..................you are just lying if try to claim other wise...............

The fact is that WBEN is a monster radio station with huge ratings and impressive billings, and the move was an honest attempt to bring in more under-55 listeners. that failed because the 107.7 is so deficient in the Buffalo MSA.

 

[stevensonair]

That, and the WBEN programming has limited appeal to listeners under 55.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Don't the networks pay stations for clearing their network commercials? I would think the 50,000 watts of WWKB would be worth something to these networks (ESPN, etc.)

I remember back when Larry King was still doing his overnight show he very much wanted to be on the 50,000 watt WBT.

 

[davideduardo]

Don't the networks pay stations for clearing their network commercials? I would think the 50,000 watts of WWKB would be worth something to these networks (ESPN, etc.)

I remember back when Larry King was still doing his overnight show he very much wanted to be on the 50,000 watt WBT.

I doubt there is any network compensation in a medium market for that type of programming. In fact, there might even be some kind of fee or charge for the affiliation in addition to carriage of the network spots.

Networks and buyers today are a lot more sophisticated when looking at power and coverage. And they realize that 50 kw on 1520 is not all that great a signal. Since any night coverage via skywave is valueless in todays buying community given the low listening levels in-market, those 50 kw signals with "38 state coverage" really have nothing to sell.

 

[davideduardo]

That, and the WBEN programming has limited appeal to listeners under 55.

AM has limited under-55 appeal. Quite a few good AM talk and news stations have gained considerably by adding FM simulcasts or simply moving to FM. The best example of this would be KSL in Salt Lake which added a full signal FM simulcast quite a few years ago and is consistently in the top 3 to 4 stations in 25-54.

The issue in Buffalo is the use of an ultra-rimshot FM to solve a demographic problem, not the appeal of talk to the upper end of 25-54.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

The real issue is that the Wyoming County FM that is 107.7 puts a "usable" signal over less than 15% of the population of the Buffalo Arbitron MSA. It could not be heard comfortably in enough places to contribute to the ratings in any age group.

True, David. But the signal issues have long been a 'known-known,' especially to those who live and work in the market. Some previous formats on the frequency have produced reasonable ratings. The long time problem with the 107.7 signal is that when a format was successful on the frequency, another station with a full B could flank or co-opt the format with relative ease. To Entercom's credit, the news-talk simulcast was highly promoted on and off air. And 107.7 broadcast in mono, which realistically improved the station's reception in cars, as well as coverage in population centers to the north and northeast: Wheatfield, East Amherst, Amherst; Lancaster and Cheektowaga to the east; Hamburg, West Seneca and Orchard Park to the south and sudeste. Coverage improved to a lesser extent in the city, where buildings created multi-path and the three B's on 93.7, 96.1 and 106.5 were ablaze from the top of the Rand Building in the heart of downtown. Had WBEN been simulcast on an in-market B or C, the results might have been better, but that's what might be called a 'known-unknown.'

 

[fybush]

I'm going to throw out another possible reason for making the flip now:

Entercom operates clusters not only in Buffalo but also in Rochester, and the 107.7 signal (uniquely among western NY FMs) is usable in portions of both metros. In Rochester, Entercom's cash cow is country WBEE, which consistently juggles its spot at the top of the ratings (both 25-54 and 12+) with Clear's news-talk WHAM.

For many years, WHAM was unusual among Clear's talkers in that it carried Limbaugh on a two-hour delay, from 2-5 PM. And even in WBEN's AM-only days, it had an audience on the western edge of the Rochester market (and even beyond) for its live clearance of Rush. When 107.7 became a WBEN signal, there was considerable speculation, here and elsewhere, that one motive was to use that live Rush broadcast to shave just a little more Rochester audience from WHAM, allowing WBEE a clearer path to the top of the ratings.

We don't know (officially, anyway) exactly how that strategy worked, because Entercom doesn't subscribe to the Rochester book and thus its numbers are not made public.

We do know that for whatever reason, not long after WBEN's FM move, WHAM reworked its schedule and has been clearing Rush live for the last few months.

If Entercom's 107.7 strategy did have anything to do with WHAM's odd schedule, the point is moot now. If Entercom was looking for an excuse to make a change at 107.7, that might have been at least part of it.

 

[SirRoxalot]

David, the signal isn't as bad as you say, particularly in the eastern suburbs where the majority of residents with money reside. It's much better than 15% of MSA, especially in cars. WBEN got no bump from adding the FM simply because their programming is toxic to people under the age of 50. Until that changes, any bump in the FM is simply coming from somebody changing from AM, not from new listeners.

I agree that Entercom probably hoped to nick WHAM - which has decimated its local new staff. WHAM adjusted, and "WBEN on FM" didn't offer anything really new to Rochester listeners.

Support for WNY sports teams is much more widely spread than talk subjects. The folks in Batavia don't give a rat's behind for Buffalo politics, but they do like the Bills and Sabres. I'll be shocked if the broadcasts from those teams doesn't make their schedule.