KBKS Stunting, Bender out

[davideduardo]

Have you ever listened to both stations in the past six months?

Yes or no.

This is more than a 6-month issue. Since Hubbard took over Sandusky in '13, Movin' has moved to a considerably higher average ratings level, particularly in 18-49 and 25-44 females. Kiss has been the most directly affected.

So the issue is whether Kiss can stage a comeback against a stronger competitor, either directly or by adjusting the same format in a slightly different direction as there are a number of flavors of CHR.

 

[TheBigA]

This is more than a 6-month issue. Since Hubbard took over Sandusky in '13, Movin' has moved to a considerably higher average ratings level, particularly in 18-49 and 25-44 females. Kiss has been the most directly affected.

My sense is the heritage morning show at Kiss didn't help. Which is why it became expendable.

 

[AQH]

Wow, must be magic. Just as I can see playlists.

BTW if you read my post, you'll see I was talking about the MUSIC sounding the same.

Tripling down, now?

I read what you said; after pointing out the difference by showing entirely different lists of most frequently played songs, you decided to focus in on one title and assert that as rock solid proof of your “point”.

Nobody but you thinks Ariana Grande, 2Chainz, Imagine Dragons and Post Malone all sound the same.

 

[AQH]

My sense is the heritage morning show at Kiss didn't help. Which is why it became expendable.

Bold assertion considering you have never listened to the station, let alone the morning show.

 

[Goi]

I make you a bet 106.1 aint going alternative - so please stop with the xxxxposts. 100% NOT going Alt.

 

[TheBigA]

Nobody but you thinks Ariana Grande, 2Chainz, Imagine Dragons and Post Malone all sound the same.

I never said that they did.

Bold assertion considering you have never listened to the station, let alone the morning show.

This may come as news to you, but you don't have to live in Seattle to listen to a radio station or a morning show.

And you don't have to live in Seattle to read the numbers.

If you don't like what I say, there's an "ignore" button you can use.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

What do you suggest? Sell to a local owner who would be faced with the same situation?

That wouldn't make sense...if you have 50 signals and sell one because the market has too many signals you still have 50. If I had power to make some suggestions to FCC, it would be that an owner could voluntarily surrender a license for a tax credit of some kind. Surrendered signal could be reassigned to a dying AM so we begin the transition to one-band broadcast and keep relevant content on the air. May not work or may not make any sense …. but to me it makes more sense than one owner having several signals and spending half their life scratching their head about what to do with all of them. That was easier in the days when you couldn't dial into the exact music mix you want by going to other sources altogether.

 

[TheBigA]

That was easier in the days when you couldn't dial into the exact music mix you want by going to other sources altogether.

You're making an assumption that they don't know what to do. Take a look at Sirius with 100 music channels to program. The issue isn't the number of stations, but which format will attract the largest audience in the right demo. That's a constantly moving target.

 

[iamarussianpirate]

Few points:

1) On the revenue posts from David, his numbers come from some convoluted estimate. MillerKaplan numbers, where the actual stations report their actual billing to an actual accounting firm, shows that David's numbers are way off. Top 3 billers in Seattle YTD in total revenue are KIRO-FM, KQMV, and KISW. It's been that way for the past 3+ years.

2) KBKS is not changing formats. They aren't going Alternative, they'll remain CHR. I'm starting to agree that they'll keep the KISS name.

3) I don't understand those who are asking why they would blow Bender out. W25-54 on a 3mo avg he's tied with KSWD, KNUC, KNKX and KIRO-FM. That morning show isn't cheap, and they haven't performed. That move was way overdue.

 

[davideduardo]

Few points:

1) On the revenue posts from David, his numbers come from some convoluted estimate. MillerKaplan numbers, where the actual stations report their actual billing to an actual accounting firm, shows that David's numbers are way off. Top 3 billers in Seattle YTD in total revenue are KIRO-FM, KQMV, and KISW. It's been that way for the past 3+ years.

I am not using MK numbers directly. The problem with MK is that clusters have "interesting" ways of allocating revenues for individual stations that are in many cases not real. I know first hand of a two-FM cluster where revenue was allocated 50-50 to MK, where in reality it was 1/3 - 2/3 in real revenue sourcing. So outside sources (some libraries have the printed BIA quarterly books available, as a comparison) talk to market managers and get much better evaluations of the actual "real" revenue.

And I am citing full year 2017 figures, not YTD which are confidential if coming from MK.

2) KBKS is not changing formats. They aren't going Alternative, they'll remain CHR. I'm starting to agree that they'll keep the KISS name.

That is what seems most logical, but there have been some less than logical decisions there lately, due more likely to revenue and cluster strategy and not ratings analysis.

 

[AQH]

This may come as news to you, but you don't have to live in Seattle to listen to a radio station or a morning show.

Correct, which makes it more bizarre how you seem so sure about your assessment of two stations you have never listened to.

And you don't have to live in Seattle to read the numbers

Also correct, but your lack of local knowledge and perspective of what gets to those numbers puts your take as useful as a pig spit at my kid's Bar Mitzvah.

If you don't like what I say, there's an "ignore" button you can use.

Nah, your comedic value outweighs my nerves.

 

[AQH]

.....I don't understand those who are asking why they would blow Bender out. W25-54 on a 3mo avg he's tied with KSWD, KNUC, KNKX and KIRO-FM. That morning show isn't cheap, and they haven't performed. That move was way overdue.

And that's not entirely on Bender himself, the giant dumpster fire involved played a bigger role.

 

[TheBigA]

Correct, which makes it more bizarre how you seem so sure about your assessment of two stations you have never listened to.

Maybe because you're incorrect in your assumption. But that's nothing new.

 

[davideduardo]

Also correct, but your lack of local knowledge and perspective of what gets to those numbers puts your take as useful as a pig spit at my kid's Bar Mitzvah.

I always get get a little giggle out of the "you don't know the market" comments.

A number of times I have been told that "it won't work here" when I launched new formats in markets I was a newcomer to. Each time the comment was proven to be totally wrong. Outside perspectives combined with local listener research often prove to be winning formulae.

KHJ: Ron Jacobs was from Hawaii.

Z-100: Shannon was from Tampa, by way of Nashville.

And so on...

 

[TheBigA]

Outside perspectives combined with local listener research often prove to be winning formulae.

Not to mention the fact that we're talking about a station owned by a company that, for better or worse, makes a lot of local decisions from outside the market.

There was a time when everything in radio, including some of the music, was homegrown. Not any more. In addition, because of the growth of several companies in the area, the market is now attracting a lot of people born & raised elsewhere. I do a lot of business with those companies, so I know.

 

[The New Chico]

Bold prediction time.

106.1 Funky Monkey.

I'll show myself out! Ha ha ha ha.

 

[guruofradio]

KISS was seeing declining ratings and declining billing so they changed, simple as that. 18-34 is the core demo for CHR and last book KISS wasn't even in the top ten, nor was their morning show. KISW, STAR and MOVIN were all on top very close in share. KQMV mornings is well ahead of the pack and about triple the share of KISS mornings. The station had dropped out of the top tier in revenue this year. KIRO-FM, KISW, KQMV, KZOK, KJR-FM, KOMO and KPLZ are the stations doing well. THE SOUND is growing last I saw, but not in the top tier yet. They are in the top tier in 25-54 ratings and well ahead of WARM. One has to wonder what WARM will do coming out of their annual Christmas music? HOT and JACK may also change. It is that time of year where stations flip and try and improve themselves. Seattle is remarkably consistent with their top revenue and ratings performers.

Can't help but feel bad for their talent. I-Heart has changed the station three times in three years: First CHR, then flip to HOT-AC and then flip back to CHR last January. No wonder ratings declined. I would bet Bender finds work either in Seattle or in another market. 17 year run is nothing to be ashamed of. If KISS is staying CHR, it seems bizarre to turn away their CHR cume with this stunt....who knows.

 

[Bongwater]

Bold prediction time.

106.1 Funky Monkey.

I'll show myself out! Ha ha ha ha.

I wonder if Active Rock is an overlooked option. KISW is formidable as hell, but that hasn't stopped competitors from trying. But if iHeart tries that, they'll have to be a lot more serious about it than Hubbard was with 98.9 and that means a MAJOR investment in talent, something iHeart just doesn't do.

 

[TheBigA]

I would bet Bender finds work either in Seattle or in another market. 17 year run is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm sure we can name a few former DJs who have chosen to stay in Seattle even if it means being off the radio. They consult, do syndication or voice-tracking for other markets. It's hard for some jocks to stay in CHR when they reach a certain age. It's easier to transition to AC or one of the classic formats.

 

[Bongwater]

I'm sure we can name a few former DJs who have chosen to stay in Seattle even if it means being off the radio. They consult, do syndication or voice-tracking for other markets. It's hard for some jocks to stay in CHR when they reach a certain age. It's easier to transition to AC or one of the classic formats.

That "certain age" in CHR is usually about 30-40 these days (though there are actually a few longtime CHR personalities over 50.)