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KBLA 1500 Burbank

TomásEstefan said:
KGBS 1020 certainly was, but I don't believe KFOX 1280 was a daytimer in the 60's or 70's.
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Tomás, I went back all the way through both decades of the Broadcasting Yearbook and ... well, here's a link to the page with their listing in the 1964 edition:

They were listed as 1kw-D through the 1976 Yearbook then started listing as 1kw-U, right before the sale to Family Stations.

The FCC history card via @Michi's site dies show them being licensed as 1kw-U:

But I remember hearing a sunset signoff back in 1977, when I first became acquainted with the late Terry Moss, so there must have been some reason why they did that even when licensed for 24-hour operation. This is one case where Wikipedia is useless, because there is no page for 1280 itself and a search on KFRN redirects to the Family Radio entry.

It's a mystery to me.
 
TomásEstefan said:
This 0.5 mv daytime coverage was very misleading. Usable coverage to the west was generally good through Thousand Oaks. But with most car radios the 2nd adjacent channel interference from KACY 1520 from the Camarillo Grade on west would be just too much to tolerate
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Elliot/Schwab got bombarded by multiple first and second channel objections to 15~Hundred returning to the air. With every license modification came reduction in day/night power and where the signal would go. All of the proposed transmitter sites had issues. Then they lost the authorization because it took too long to get the station on the air. In the final analysis, the FCC did a mercy killing on what would have been another useless AM station in the overcrowded LA area.
 
K.M. Richards said:
In both cases, the FMs were being used essentially to continue the format after the daytimer AM signed off at sunset, and simulcast during daytime hours.
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I know that when KGBS became KTNQ in early 1977, it received 24-hours-per-day permission from the FCC. For some reason, I keep thinking that KFOX-AM had gone 24 hours per day around 1970 or 1971. Please correct me on when the 1280 signal from Long Beach became a 24-hour-per-day station.
 
ted chittenden said:
I know that when KGBS became KTNQ in early 1977, it received 24-hours-per-day permission from the FCC. For some reason, I keep thinking that KFOX-AM had gone 24 hours per day around 1970 or 1971. Please correct me on when the 1280 signal from Long Beach became a 24-hour-per-day station.
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As I said several posts back, the FCC history cards show it always having been licensed as 1kw-U. However, somewhere in the back of my mind I remember that the minimum required operating hours per week for all AM stations did not include night hours, so KFOX might have just stayed off the air after sunset by its own decision.

Perhaps @fybush or @Huff can clarify, since my own memory is fuzzy on the subject.
 
ted chittenden said:
I know that when KGBS became KTNQ in early 1977, it received 24-hours-per-day permission from the FCC.
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KGBS became KTNQ only after the FCC had authorized night operation with two 50 kw directional patterns. The grant was arranged when Storer, owners of KTNQ, agreed to help build a 50 kw station on 1020 in New Mexico. Once the new site was constructed at City of Industry, CA, KGBS then switched to fulltime operation under the TenQ name, 24 hours a day.
ted chittenden said:
For some reason, I keep thinking that KFOX-AM had gone 24 hours per day around 1970 or 1971. Please correct me on when the 1280 signal from Long Beach became a 24-hour-per-day station.
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I went back to the 50's, and KFOX was a fulltimer back then, too.
 
ted chittenden said:
I know that when KGBS became KTNQ in early 1977, it received 24-hours-per-day permission from the FCC. For some reason, I keep thinking that KFOX-AM had gone 24 hours per day around 1970 or 1971. Please correct me on when the 1280 signal from Long Beach became a 24-hour-per-day station.
Click to expand...
You might want to clarify by using the terms "daytimer" and "fulltime" for AM stations. A full-timer does not have to operate 24 hours a day, and before the 60's, most did not.
 
ted chittenden said:
Per the ARSA surveys, before KFOX-FM simulcast the AM, it was running an R&B format.
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I think I need to remind you of something, Ted, that I ran across when I was researching the history of the FMs on Baldwin Hills several years back.

KFOX-FM began on 102.3 in 1951 and then went silent for several months in 1965 after the license was transferred to John Lamar Hill. The spinoff was due to the owners of KFOX acquiring KMLA/100.3 and moving the call letters there. Thus 102.3 had the KJLH calls starting in 1965.

For some reason my ARSA login is not working, so I can't check for myself, but I'm guessing the surveys you referenced are actually from KJLH and may be misfiled.

I'd point you at the history cards to confirm this but I suspect your screenreader would not be able to cope with a lot of the faint entries on same due to the FCC using typewriter ribbons until they failed completely.
 
DavidEduardo said:
You might want to clarify by using the terms "daytimer" and "fulltime" for AM stations. A full-timer does not have to operate 24 hours a day, and before the 60's, most did not.
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The station I started at (1971-74), KIBS in Bishop, California signed off Monday through Saturday nights at 10:00 p.m. and Sunday nights at 7:00 p.m.

And another station where I worked, KUKI, Ukiah, California (1976-77) signed off every night at midnight.
 
K.M. Richards said:
I think I need to remind you of something, Ted, that I ran across when I was researching the history of the FMs on Baldwin Hills several years back.

KFOX-FM began on 102.3 in 1951 and then went silent for several months in 1965 after the license was transferred to John Lamar Hill. The spinoff was due to the owners of KFOX acquiring KMLA/100.3 and moving the call letters there. Thus 102.3 had the KJLH calls starting in 1965.

For some reason my ARSA login is not working, so I can't check for myself, but I'm guessing the surveys you referenced are actually from KJLH and may be misfiled.

I'd point you at the history cards to confirm this but I suspect your screenreader would not be able to cope with a lot of the faint entries on same due to the FCC using typewriter ribbons until they failed completely.
Click to expand...

ARSA logins have been buggy for months now. I have to do a "new password" request to get in each time---including later the same day after choosing a new password.
 
DrAkbar said:
Elliot/Schwab got bombarded by multiple first and second channel objections to 15~Hundred returning to the air. With every license modification came reduction in day/night power and where the signal would go. All of the proposed transmitter sites had issues. Then they lost the authorization because it took too long to get the station on the air. In the final analysis, the FCC did a mercy killing on what would have been another useless AM station in the overcrowded LA area.
Click to expand...

I stayed quiet about this post for a couple of days to compose myself after my initial displeasure at the description of "another useless station".

Akbar, I appreciate how much knowledge you have shared on RD over the years, especially the convoluted situation in Arizona that you have been very conscientious in reporting about. But you do not have the entire picture of what happened here. I do, because Don Elliot and I are old friends, we had a handshake agreement for me to provide programming support if he got this on the air, and on that basis I had proprietary knowledge of the situation.

Without violating the confidentiality of that information, I will fill in a couple of the holes for you. The "multiple objections" came from a single licensee whose station was silent the entire time. And that station only finally resumed operations a few months ago, under a different owner. Those objections amounted to a heaping pile of 💩 and Don did the best he could to accommodate them.

There was also a dispute with the FCC about tolling the CP, which Don took all the way to federal court to appeal, and (sadly) lost. At the time the Commission cancelled the CP, Don had the tower and equipment ordered but ran into local bureaucracy delays in getting the new tower site (because the BS objections made his original site no longer feasible) approved. In fact, we were working on a modification of the translator CP (which was also the subject of a BS objection) and 1500 was primarily going to be the basis for operating the FM signal. There was also a longer-term plan which went up in a puff of smoke when the CPs were cancelled.

So I find your characterization of the situation offensive. I know better than to expect an apology but I know a lot more about what happened than you ever will.
 
michael hagerty said:
ARSA logins have been buggy for months now. I have to do a "new password" request to get in each time---including later the same day after choosing a new password.
Click to expand...

I've tried three times today to reset my password. I give up and I have sent a note to them explaining why their site has become useless.
 
DavidEduardo said:
KGBS became KTNQ only after the FCC had authorized night operation with two 50 kw directional patterns. The grant was arranged when Storer, owners of KTNQ, agreed to help build a 50 kw station on 1020 in New Mexico. Once the new site was constructed at City of Industry, CA, KGBS then switched to fulltime operation under the TenQ name, 24 hours a day.

I went back to the 50's, and KFOX was a fulltimer back then, too.
Click to expand...
"Serving Modern New Mexico and the Great Southwest this is KSWS Roswell"
 
K.M. Richards said:
I stayed quiet about this post for a couple of days to compose myself after my initial displeasure at the description of "another useless station".

Akbar, I appreciate how much knowledge you have shared on RD over the years, especially the convoluted situation in Arizona that you have been very conscientious in reporting about. But you do not have the entire picture of what happened here. I do, because Don Elliot and I are old friends, we had a handshake agreement for me to provide programming support if he got this on the air, and on that basis I had proprietary knowledge of the situation.

Without violating the confidentiality of that information, I will fill in a couple of the holes for you. The "multiple objections" came from a single licensee whose station was silent the entire time. And that station only finally resumed operations a few months ago, under a different owner. Those objections amounted to a heaping pile of 💩 and Don did the best he could to accommodate them.

There was also a dispute with the FCC about tolling the CP, which Don took all the way to federal court to appeal, and (sadly) lost. At the time the Commission cancelled the CP, Don had the tower and equipment ordered but ran into local bureaucracy delays in getting the new tower site (because the BS objections made his original site no longer feasible) approved. In fact, we were working on a modification of the translator CP (which was also the subject of a BS objection) and 1500 was primarily going to be the basis for operating the FM signal. There was also a longer-term plan which went up in a puff of smoke when the CPs were cancelled.

So I find your characterization of the situation offensive. I know better than to expect an apology but I know a lot more about what happened than you ever will.
Click to expand...
The "objecting" station is out in Colton now, far away and at much less power that the original operation from Ontario. Too bad the FCC won't change its tune and allow something too be built on 1500. And while they're at it they should also allow CP applications to be taken for 1450 in Ventura.

And I agree there is really no such thing as a "useless" radio station.
 
secondchoice said:
IMHO: Bad programming can make a station "useless" but that can be fixed.
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I agree, as over the years I have seen a lot of stations with bad programming that ruined it. And many have been able to reverse course by fixing that.

Hell, my own career as a programmer began when I fixed the programming at an Class IV AM/Class A FM simulcast in my hometown market. From not showing in the Arbitrons (this was 1978-79) to #5 in 12+, in one book.

So yes, programming can indeed be fixed, and to call a station that never got the chance to begin operation "useless" is patently unfair.
 
BTW, I looked up §73.1740 (minimum operating schedule) for another thread and since 1280 was not on a Class IV frequency -- it is presently a Class B -- if they did sign off at night (and now I'm starting to question my own recollection of that, as well as the Broadcasting Yearbook discrepancies) they had no legal authority to do so.

(a) All commercial broadcast stations are required to operate not less than the following minimum hours:

(1) AM and FM stations. Two-thirds of the total hours they are authorized to operate between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m. local time and two-thirds of the total hours they are authorized to operate between 6 p.m. and midnight, local time, each day of the week except Sunday.

(i) Class D stations which have been authorized nighttime operations need comply only with the minimum requirements for operation between 6 a.m. and 6 p.m., local time.
 


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