KCAL FM

[ChannelFlipper]

KCAL-FM has always leaned harder-edged in its playlist. According to Wikipedia, the rock format goes back to 1969! I just checked the "Recently Played" list. Nine Inch Nails, Nirvana, Guns n Roses, Rage Against The Machine and Linkin Park. That's clearly an Active Rock playlist.

Sometimes softening a station will bring additional women. But in the case of Rock stations, that is not really true. Most women aren't that interested in rock formats. And guys who want rock may think their station has become too pop for their tastes.

This is so true. Guys Who Rock have very little patience for pop of any kind polluting their station. From their point of view, that "stuff" is all over the rest of their dial; their hard-rockin' station is something of a place of rock refuge, the purity of which shall not be infringed.

I have posted before that in the early 80s my rockin' uncles in the IE had full respect for KMET, KLOS and local station KCAL, which has traditionally been a bit more hard rock as noted above. BUT they detested KOLA, which they perceived to be a teeny-bopper's rock/pop station. I could never understand why they felt that way since I knew at the time that KOLA's playlist was very similar to those of KMET and KLOS (and found out later via this site that they were actually tracking and mimicking KMET's playlist). But perception is reality and the uncles wouldn't be caught dead listening to KOLA. So if KOLA's slightly different presentation was enough to turn them off, imagine what few helpings of Cyndi Lauper would have done? Same is true today.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

It's the other way around. The advertisers want female listeners, so the radio stations create formats that attract female listeners, and it works. And the men either mainly listen to some kind of talk or their own playlist. The women are seen as the decision-makers and the buyers.

I was reading an interesting article about how country radio's emphasis on music for women has almost totally alienated the men. One consultant said the male exodus has led to a 20% decline in the format.

It certainly explains the narrow commerical format of today's Country. All the singers sound the same, the song constructions are the same, and their is little variety in the personalities. It has stifled a great format, and no, Johnny Cash will not be walking back in the door. Sad.

 

[TheBigA]

It has stifled a great format, and no, Johnny Cash will not be walking back in the door. Sad.

You obviously haven't listened lately. Of course you're not a woman. Just because a format targets women doesn't mean it all sounds the same. That's insulting to women. You have very traditional singers such as Cody Johnson and Jon Pardi having hits right next to country alternative acts like Hardy, or rockers like Aldean and Eric Church, and pop stars like Keith Urban and Thomas Rhett. Lots of variety. And Johnny is very much alive in the rebellion some of these acts have today. They all mention Johnny and Waylon as influences.

Women like the hunky men or other women they can identify with. That's why a rock singer like Elle King has a Top 10 right now.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

You obviously haven't listened lately. Of course you're not a woman. Just because a format targets women doesn't mean it all sounds the same. That's insulting to women. You have very traditional singers such as Cody Johnson and Jon Pardi having hits right next to country alternative acts like Hardy, or rockers like Aldean and Eric Church, and pop stars like Keith Urban and Thomas Rhett. Lots of variety. And Johnny is very much alive in the rebellion some of these acts have today. They all mention Johnny and Waylon as influences.

Women like the hunky men or other women they can identify with. That's why a rock singer like Elle King has a Top 10 right now.

So are you just telling me that my perception is wrong, or are you saying that to all of the men who have deserted the format which has led to the 20% drop, as you posted above?

Maybe instead of telling me how wrong I am, you should sign me and some other deserters up to a music test and listen to the feedback. Might be necessary to turn around a great format that is headed in the wrong direction.

 

[TheBigA]

So are you just telling me that my perception is wrong, or are you saying that to all of the men who have deserted the format which has led to the 20% drop, as you posted above?

Your perception is wrong. You think all the music sounds the same, and it doesn't. Although it probably does to you.

The situation with men is not because they perceive the music sounds the same. It's that it doesn't deal with subjects they like. If there were more songs about trucks, hunting, fishing, drinking, cheating, and right wing politics, they'd listen more. Aaron Lewis put a song out last year that radio didn't play, but got a lot of interest from male country fans. Look it up, if you don't know what I mean. Instead Tim McGraw put out a song called Undivided.

 

[davideduardo]

What percentage of radio listeners in a given metro (LA, or the Inland Empire, for example) are female? The reason I ask is because it seems that the 'female' leaning formats you mentioned are the top formats in a lot of markets.

There is very little difference in the sales demos between the amount of male vs female listening. It is nearly identical and in proportion to the population.

As BigA said, the difference is in agency buys and demand.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Your perception is wrong. You think all the music sounds the same, and it doesn't. Although it probably does to you.

The situation with men is not because they perceive the music sounds the same. It's that it doesn't deal with subjects they like. If there were more songs about trucks, hunting, fishing, drinking, cheating, and right wing politics, they'd listen more. Aaron Lewis put a song out last year that radio didn't play, but got a lot of interest from male country fans. Look it up, if you don't know what I mean. Instead Tim McGraw put out a song called Undivided.

Ok now we are getting somewhere. According to you, the following people have the "wrong" perceptions:

• ChannelFlipper
• Truckers who like truck songs
• Hunters who like hunting songs
• Drinkers who like drinking songs
• Cheaters (or those who have been cheated) who like cheatin' songs

and of course

• Patriots who like patriotic songs (the most abhorrent!).

Isn't this exactly what they would the say at the public radio station staff break room? Your list of course is both asininely and patronizingly stereotypical, but assuming your analysis is accurate ( a real reach), maybe those are the songs country radio should be playing. My grandfather, who grew up on country music since the depression once told me: "if it ain't about drinkin', cheatin', or losing your dog, it ain't country".

With you though there is a larger point - you are all about giving the public what it wants right up until the time when what the public wants is something different than what you want. Is there no room in your world for (gasp!) redneck right-wing God-fearing country folk who happen to live a different lifestyle and hold different values than you? They can't listen to what they want without having woke Tim McGraw shoved down their throats.? You would play the Tim McGraw song but never the Aaron Lewis song no matter what the test results were, right?

And how many times have we been told on this board, especially when it comes to vulgar and misogynistic rap music, "we radio executives and programmers don't make public tastes, we just reflect them; not our fault if that is what the public wants." That has always been a lie, but never more so easily exposed then now:

Eminim, Cardi B - not our fault, that is what the public wants; Aaron Lewis ,who writes lyrics like:

Am I the only one sittin' here
Still holdin' on, holdin' back my tears
For the ones who paid with the lives they gave
God bless the U.S.A

That is unapproved thought and language that can not and will not be played on our airwaves!

 

[TheBigA]

Ok now we are getting somewhere. According to you, the following people have the "wrong" perceptions:

• ChannelFlipper
• Truckers who like truck songs
• Hunters who like hunting songs
• Drinkers who like drinking songs
• Cheaters (or those who have been cheated) who like cheatin' songs

and of course

• Patriots who like patriotic songs (the most abhorrent!).

Did I say that? No. I very clearly said that men don't have the wrong perception. For obvious reasons! All I said was repeat what a consultant said about country radio, attributing a 20% loss to the loss of men. I personally haven't seen that statistic. I also said that country radio has been staying away from songs with guy topics. So that's what I said. I have no opinion on whether that's good or bad.

BTW the McGraw song stiffed at #15. It was not a hit. Women didn't like it either. And yes, we play the music that attracts the audience our advertisers want. If you don't like that, then you must be a communist.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Did I say that? No. I very clearly said that men don't have the wrong perception. For obvious reasons! All I said was repeat what a consultant said about country radio, attributing a 20% loss to the loss of men. I personally haven't seen that statistic. I also said that country radio has been staying away from songs with guy topics. So that's what I said. I have no opinion on whether that's good or bad.

BTW the McGraw song stiffed at #15. It was not a hit. Women didn't like it either. And yes, we play the music that attracts the audience our advertisers want. If you don't like that, then you must be a communist.

So it is your advertisers that are ok with Cardi B and Eminem, but not Aaron Lewis? Still not your fault of course. You just play what the advertisers want you to play. They're the ultimate customer, right?

 

[TheBigA]

So it is your advertisers that are ok with Cardi B and Eminem, but not Aaron Lewis? Still not your fault of course. You just play what the advertisers want you to play. They're the ultimate customer, right?

Advertisers don't pick the music. They pick the audience. Keep in mind country stations play Jason Aldean, who spent New Year's Eve in Mar-a-Lago with you know who. And they play Morgan Wallen, and you know what he said.

Jason Aldean rings in 2022 with Donald Trump: 'This man is unbelievable'

The country singer called Trump "the G.O.A.T."

www.yahoo.com

 

[davideduardo]

So it is your advertisers that are ok with Cardi B and Eminem, but not Aaron Lewis? Still not your fault of course. You just play what the advertisers want you to play. They're the ultimate customer, right?

Adding my "two cent's worth" to BigA's comment: in the larger markets, a huge portion of sales comes from agencies. Much of that is from out of town agencies where media buyers just look at the demographics and the CPP and, occasionally, cume duplication. They buy by the numbers. They don't know any more about a station than the Nielsen format descriptor, the ratings tables and the rate quoted for the buy.

Those buyers don't care if the station plays Eminem or The Everly Brothers. They follow the buy specs that come from the Media Planner(s) for the account and which came from client meetings.

 

[K.M. Richards]

Lots of early FMs did not move when they could, and later the frequency was blocked from improvement by other, newer station.

And in the case of 106.7, it was under the ownership of the Pasadena Presbyterian Church during the early years --- 1962 to 1967 -- when a move could have been accomplished fairly easily (technically speaking). But the church likely lacked the funding to do so, and the subsequent owners ... Leon Crosby until 1969, then National Science Network to 1973, were also classically underfunded. By that time, the signal deficiency was becoming all-too obvious, but it was too late because of spacing issues not only to new FMs but to older ones that had upgraded when the time came. Plus Gary Bookasta couldn't afford to improve it either; it was silent for most of the first two years he and his investors owned it. By 1979, when things were starting to look better, it was a technical impossibility.

For KROQ, the major stumbling blocks to upgrading are KALI-FM at 106.3 and KSSE at 107.1, which are afforded second-adjacent signal protection.

 

[davideduardo]

For KROQ, the major stumbling blocks to upgrading are KALI-FM at 106.3 and KSSE at 107.1, which are afforded second-adjacent signal protection.

And it is strange that second adjacent protection is not given in much of the rest of the world. My impression is that the rules are based on 40's and 50's technology and we could certainly explore relaxing or eliminating second adjacent protections in the US.

Except in border areas, Mexico was able to move most of its AMs to FM by allowing second adjacents in the same market and location. Seconds are not protected in much / most of Latin America. I had several second adjacents of my own in Ecuador in the late 60's, in fact.

 

[victorres43]

And it is strange that second adjacent protection is not given in much of the rest of the world. My impression is that the rules are based on 40's and 50's technology and we could certainly explore relaxing or eliminating second adjacent protections in the US.

Except in border areas, Mexico was able to move most of its AMs to FM by allowing second adjacents in the same market and location. Seconds are not protected in much / most of Latin America. I had several second adjacents of my own in Ecuador in the late 60's, in fact.

It still is bizarre that many areas in the Southern US, especially Dallas and Houston, are served by rimshots. Giant 100,000 watt signals that cover maybe 50% of the market. Not an efficient way to utilize power.

For instance, if Houston were in the same zone as Los Angeles, stations like KTJM, KHJK, and KQQK would have been Class A signals that serve a particular, crucial portion of the market. Also, Dallas has Urban ACs KZMJ and KRNB having better signals in sparsely populated countryside than in southern Dallas County or even Irving.

 

[K.M. Richards]

And it is strange that second adjacent protection is not given in much of the rest of the world. My impression is that the rules are based on 40's and 50's technology and we could certainly explore relaxing or eliminating second adjacent protections in the US.

A relaxation wouldn't help KROQ much. Even if there was a mileage separation reduction to KALI-FM in Orange County, KSSE is still essentially a Los Angeles station with a transmitter site that's never going to be far enough away from the Verdugo Hills unless the protection was indeed totally eliminated.

 

[davideduardo]

A relaxation wouldn't help KROQ much. Even if there was a mileage separation reduction to KALI-FM in Orange County, KSSE is still essentially a Los Angeles station with a transmitter site that's never going to be far enough away from the Verdugo Hills unless the protection was indeed totally eliminated.

One example is Quito, Ecuador, where all FMs are on a particular mountain rim overlooking the city. Evey one is within a 1 square km zone and there are multiple 2nd adjacents at the same site. Works just fine; sort of like the ESB, there is a 6 kw maximum ERP from up there but at about 13,000 feet AMSL that is good enough .

 

[K108 Sacramento]

David, what if all the stations had equal effective radiated power? Could you ever see an FM realignment of assigned frequencies using computer technology that would more efficiently use and space stations across the FM Band in America?

 

[Gregg.]

Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake City, Phoenix and other Western markets all have multiple powerful "rimshots." They target the larger market, never referring to their home communities except in the legal I.D. People with some engineering insight bought a lower power FM station many miles from the big city. They got the power boosted and the tower moved as close to downtown as the FCC would allow.

Consider WHUD 100.7, 50,000 watts in Peekskill, 40 miles north of Midtown Manhattan, second adjacent to WHTZ 100.3 and WCBS-FM 101.1. WHUD describes itself as "Westchester and The Hudson Valley's Music and Information Station." It can be heard from The Bronx to almost as north as Albany. If it were in the West, WHUD would be 100,000 watts, with a format aimed at New Yorkers.

Someone just paid $9 million for 103.3 KESN, licensed to Allen, Texas, running nearly 100,000 watts and till now the ESPN station for Dallas. It's second adjacent to KDMX 102.9 and KVIL 103.7. By contrast, nobody would pay $9 million for WHUD. It's strong but it's not covering a majority of the New York market like KESN covers most of Dallas-Fort Worth.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

If there is a part of the Dallas Metroplex that KESN doesn't cover, I haven't been to it. Maybe west of Ft. Worth?

 

[TheBigA]

David, what if all the stations had equal effective radiated power? Could you ever see an FM realignment of assigned frequencies using computer technology that would more efficiently use and space stations across the FM Band in America?

The purchase price radio stations was based on the signal and the population it reached. If the FM band was "realigned," who would compensate the big station owners for their loss, and would the small station owners be required to pay someone for their improved signal?