KCBS CHANGES LEGAL I.D.

[djj]

I'm not sure when they changed the voice-drop, but at 5:59:50 this morning,
I heard the legal I.D., "KCBS, and KCBS-HD, San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose"
on AM 740...

Funny thing is, here in the North Bay, the HD on 740 won't kick in - the
Samsung HD receiver I have can't receive the HD signal when on night pattern.

HD on AM, as mentioned elsewhere on the Web, is a waste of time, anyway...
--jay

 

[w9wi]

I'm not sure when they changed the voice-drop, but at 5:59:50 this morning,
I heard the legal I.D., "KCBS, and KCBS-HD, San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose"
on AM 740...

Required by FCC regulation. HD stations are now required to ID as such.

 

[LKellerIII]

All of the stations are now doing this. If you want to hear KCBS in real HD hi-fi stereo, it's on KFRC - 106.9 HD2

 

[BossRadioDJ]

All of the stations are now doing this. If you want to hear KCBS in real HD hi-fi stereo, it's on KFRC - 106.9 HD2

What I don't get is that KHTK/1140 in Sackamenna ("KHTK & KHTK-HD, Sacramento") is running promos about now being in "high definition."

That's false advertising.

 

[rickradio]

What I don't get is that KHTK/1140 in Sackamenna ("KHTK & KHTK-HD, Sacramento") is running promos about now being in "high definition."

That's false advertising.

Yes, it is. "HD" stands for "Hybrid Digital," not "High Definition." Maybe someone there doesn't know that? Or they're hoping we don't?

 

[DavidKaye]

Yes, it is. "HD" stands for "Hybrid Digital," not "High Definition." Maybe someone there doesn't know that? Or they're hoping we don't?

My understanding is that "HD" when applied to radio doesn't stand for anything at all; that it's backronymed to all sorts of things. To me, this is fraud because it's implying high definition.

 

[Tibbs4]

If a stations has several translators and HD, etc., the FCC mandated ID will eventually take 59 minutes an hour.
Especially after they add a government warning. Now even the damn ID's won't sound cool.

 

[ajhenderson]

I may be wrong, but don't translators ID through some form of tones (if they want to). And they have three windows in which they have to ID, not every hour.

 

[Tibbs4]

It was a joke....

 

[DeadAudicy]

Um, as audio "definition" standards for HD haven't really been set to law or policy, there is no "height" of definition that needs be met. Even if HD did mean or was implied to mean or was taken to mean "High Def", how can there possibly be fraud when there is no measure of clarity with which to judge, except comparitively? It's just a label.

But come to think of it, my Pioneer receiver doesn't show the least sign of handcarts or covered wagons or even prairie dust. Frauds.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

...I heard the legal I.D., "KCBS, and KCBS-HD, San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose"
on AM 740...

Required by FCC regulation. HD stations are now required to ID as such.

Are you sure AMs are required to do this? Don't they have only one
digital signal which mirrors (simulcasts, if you will) the analog broadcast?

OTOH, FMs in digital dupe their analog on HD1 and typically run alternate
programming on HD2 (which is IDed separately on HD2). Thus, a newly
revised over-the-air ID on 94.5 in my radio market:

"KOOL-FM and KOOL HD1 Phoenix."

Paging Scott Fybush...

Meanwhile, I'll have to check one of the local AMs that runs I-CRAP
at the next TOH.

 

[w9wi]

Are you sure AMs are required to do this? Don't they have only one
digital signal which mirrors (simulcasts, if you will) the analog broadcast?

I'm pretty sure it's required even for AMs, which don't have any subchannels.

I'm afraid I'm old enough to remember when many FM stations didn't have a format of their own, but simply relayed an associated AM. They still had to ID both stations - "WDMP AM & FM, Dodgeville". Today, some lawyer would probably make them say "WDMP Dodgeville; WDMP-FM Dodgeville"...

Scott is probably closer to his copy of the actual FCC release.

Meanwhile, I'll have to check one of the local AMs that runs I-CRAP
at the next TOH.

Don't be too sure the station got it right!

_________________________________________________

To address a different reply... Yes, analog translators may be IDd in Morse Code. A special form of modulation is used that shouldn't be audible on normal receivers. (*shouldn't*, I *have* heard the IDs in some cases...)

I don't think they've addressed automatic IDs on HD translators. To the best of my knowledge no translator is relaying HD yet. No reason it *can't*, just don't think anyone's bothered to try yet. Personally I'd think if the call letters & city are inserted in the Program Associated Data, a regular ID shouldn't be necessary.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

I'm afraid I'm old enough to remember when many FM stations didn't have a format of their own, but simply relayed an associated AM. They still had to ID both stations - "WDMP AM & FM, Dodgeville". Today, some lawyer would probably make them say "WDMP Dodgeville; WDMP-FM Dodgeville"...

Nah, it's us radio geeks ;D who would insist the legal ID is voiced in its
most correct form--with all the "i"s dotted and "t"s crossed, and none
of that "AM & FM" crap.

The ambulance cha--uh, lawyer, would argue against us radio geeks,
claiming that the client is a "victim."

And the FCC would say, "ah, close enough for government work," and
go back to ignoring power/pattern violations and the like.

Meanwhile, I'll have to check one of the local AMs that runs I-CRAP
at the next TOH.

Don't be too sure the station got it right!

Unless this new ID rule for AM I-CRAP just kicked in today, I've yet to
hear "KFYI and KFYI HD Phoenix," and 55/FYI has been I-CRAPping for
some time now.

 

[fybush]

Paging Scott Fybush...

Here's the deal: the FCC changed the ID rules a few months back when it authorized HD Radio on a commercial (and not just an experimental) basis. Unfortunately, they did so in a confusing way. Here's the official rule in its new form:

(b) Content. (1) Official station identification shall consist of the
station's call letters immediately followed by the community or communities
specified in its license as the station's location; Provided, That the name
of the licensee, the station's frequency, the station's channel number, as
stated on the station's license, and/or the station's network affiliation
may be inserted between the call letters and station location. DTV stations,
or DAB Stations, choosing to include the station's channel number in the
station identification must use the station's major channel number and may
distinguish multicast program streams. For example, a DTV station with major
channel number 26 may use 26.1 to identify an HDTV program service and 26.2
to identify an SDTV program service. A radio station operating in DAB hybrid
mode or extended hybrid mode shall identify its digital signal, including
any free multicast audio programming streams, in a manner that appropriately
alerts its audience to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio
broadcast. No other insertion between the station's call letters and the
community or communities specified in its license is permissible.

I bolded the new rules that relate to HD Radio.

So...what does "a manner that appropriately alerts its audience..." mean? The FCC doesn't say, explicitly. Many - but not all - stations are taking the safe route and adding "and KXXX-HD Anytown" to their IDs. I'm not certain that's really what the FCC intended to require for AM HD and FM HD1 signals, inasmuch as they are, by definition, simulcasts of the analog signal and covered by the analog signal's own legal ID.

My read of the new rule says "KCBS San Francisco, now in HD digital radio" would suffice. But I am not a communications attorney, so take that with a grain of salt. I'm hopeful the FCC will clarify the meaning of the new rules at some point.

 

[MikeAmatori]

All of the stations are now doing this. If you want to hear KCBS in real HD hi-fi stereo, it's on KFRC - 106.9 HD2

And those cel phones have never sounded better...

 

[ajhenderson]

I've mentioned this someone on R-I before, but it seems a lot of stations are IDing HD with the same small errors that many stations use to ID an AM and an FM (ie "KSL, KSL-FM Midvale Salt Lake City"). KLSX/LA, for example, IDs as "KLSX, KLSX HD Los Angeles". As Scott pointed out, the new rule is rather vague as to whether this ID is technically not legal due to "HD" not being an acceptable insertion between the calls and COL.

 

[fybush]

I've mentioned this someone on R-I before, but it seems a lot of stations are IDing HD with the same small errors that many stations use to ID an AM and an FM (ie "KSL, KSL-FM Midvale Salt Lake City"). KLSX/LA, for example, IDs as "KLSX, KLSX HD Los Angeles". As Scott pointed out, the new rule is rather vague as to whether this ID is technically not legal due to "HD" not being an acceptable insertion between the calls and COL.

I think there's a distinction to be drawn between the KSL ID, which is quite clearly against both the letter and spirit of the rule ("KSL Salt Lake City, KSL-FM Midvale" would be the correct formula there), and the KLSX ID, which appears to me to meet both the letter and spirit of the new rule. If you parse the ID as "KLSX (HD) Los Angeles," I think it's pretty easy to argue that "HD" is an acceptable insertion to "appropriately alert the listener" that he/she is tuned to a digital broadcast.

 

[Tom_KYA1260]

Re: Didn't stop any goofy mistakes

At 5:08 today, the newscaster said it was "8:08" and the traffic babe said it was "Sunday".... No corrections, just a straight screw-up. Must be the HD....

 

[ABQTom]

Re: Didn't stop any goofy mistakes

The last time I heard the Legendary Larry Van Nuys down here on 1070 KNX ... the announcer said, prior to CBS network news...

"Newsradio 1070...KNX...AM and HD...serving ALL of Orange County and Southern California..."

This has been the same since at least October...

 

[ajhenderson]

KABC also does this, with some combination of "KABC-AM" and "KABC-HD". Of course, there is no such thing as KABC-AM, and if the AM is in HD, how would KNX be AM and HD? :