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KCBS ON FM? CBS HAS GOT TO BE KIDDING?

A

airpab

Take a decent FM signal in the 4th biggest market in the country and simulcast off an AM all-news station that already sufficiently covers the entire area and beyond?

It's not even news/talk?? Listen to one cycle of the news and you're done...Boggles the mind?? CBS is just being lazy with this one.
 
Agree with airpab.
CBS is lazy, though not as lazy as people under the age of 35 who wouldn't know where the AM dial is on their radio.
Is there anything CBS could do with news on the FM spectrum that would actually take advantage of the channel sep and the relatively stronger high fidelity that would get noticed by the FM-only radio listener?
I don't think stations should be allowed to simulcast more than 12 hours a day.
How much would I have to pay to buy up that sad 106.9 and put it to constructive use?
 
They think they can beat KGO with the combo numbers. Pile on a rating point! Oh Boy!

It's OK Mickey, go back to bed! Don't worry about that old top-forty news machine.

Good Night!
 
Tripton99- I think it's about 80-90 mil. But CBS has hacked it up so much, I'll bet you can offer 50 mil and get it...lol !

Question is...What would you do with it??
 
It would not be an Oldies station.
Those who know me could guess the components.
But I've gotta check the matresses for the cash first.
 
djtalker said:
They think they can beat KGO with the combo numbers. Pile on a rating point! Oh Boy!
Click to expand...

They already do beat KGO.

4.9 KCBS AM and 3.1 for KGO in the only broad demo that really matters.

Being on FM will further increase the KCBS lead in 25-54 and, thus, in revenue.
 
airpab said:
Take a decent FM signal in the 4th biggest market in the country and simulcast off an AM all-news station that already sufficiently covers the entire area and beyond?

It's not even news/talk?? Listen to one cycle of the news and you're done...Boggles the mind?? CBS is just being lazy with this one.
Click to expand...

CBS is making money on radio, and I'll bet you're not. CBS is one of the very few radio broadcasters making any money these days. Not Citadel, not Cumulus, not Clear Channel. The audience for radio is shifting to FM, so it makes perfect sense that CBS's most successful SF station have an FM presence. It's the DUH factor.
 
djtalker said:
They think they can beat KGO with the combo numbers. Pile on a rating point! Oh Boy!

It's OK Mickey, go back to bed! Don't worry about that old top-forty news machine.

Good Night!
Click to expand...

KGO should be quaking in their boots over this. Seriously. KGO needs an FM desperately if they're going to have any radio audience left. They didn't see it soon enough. The time to buy would have been when KGO still had Disney's deep pockets and could spend half a mill a year on maintenance. Now with Citadel, it'd be lucky if the entire chain gets that much to keep things running, let alone buy stations, which is now out of the question since Citadel's stock price is now in junk status and almost got de-listed by the NYSE.

If KGO could LMA an FM for $1.5 million a year (which is probably about what it'll cost) they could make it back in significant ratings boosts in desirable demographics to cover the expenditure. But Citadel is not going to turn loose that kind of money for an experiment (an experiment that has been repeated with success in other markets).
 
In a Top 10 market, I fail to see how an FM simulcast of an All-News station (which is inherently redundant), is a sell to would be advertisers?

Free FM at least had a lot of entertainment value and content, and they didn't even make it...So, how does an All-News station on FM offer any kind of value to an advertiser? The listeners you "might get" on FM would likely be younger, but aren't they likely to listen to one cycle of news, and then move on??

KGO on FM makes sense, because it's Issue/Talk/Interactively based, plus it has a ton of presence in the market.

CBS seems to be reaching on this one! Is there any empirical evidence/data showing that the younger demos don't know to turn to AM for news, if they want it? I'm puzzled?
 
radio dx said:
If CBS is making money why do they change formats every 8 months?
Click to expand...

David Eduardo could give you a more educated answer to that, but the short answer is that CBS has successful stations outside the San Francisco market.

I'm only familiar with LA - where CBS has KROQ (#7), The Wave (#8), and K-Earth (#11) in the most recent Arbitron ratings for 12 plus. They also have 3 other stations in the market (KNX, KLSX and KFWB) that aren't as highly rated, but apparently still make money.

Despite your hyperbole, CBS doesn't change formats "every 8 months" - 99.7 flipped to MOViN about 2 years ago now, and has not changed. Only 106.9 has been a mess, and all their other stations have had the same formats for years. It does seem like their SF stations underperform compared to CBS in other markets.
 
airpab said:
In a Top 10 market, I fail to see how an FM simulcast of an All-News station (which is inherently redundant), is a sell to would be advertisers?
Click to expand...

Advertisers do not buy frequencies or bands... and often even formats. They buy listener exposure. What obviously motivates not just KCBS but has motivated many other AM news and news/talk and sports statons to simulcast on FM or just to move there is simply the demos. AM is a very poor deliverer in most markets of under-55 listeners, and experience shows that adding FM improves the performance in the under 55's. Since essentially there are no agency buys against over-55 listeners, this is critical.

San Francisco is somewhat different due to terrain and geographical size, and AM has higher shares than nearly anywhere else... but even then you can not buck a trend that is verified over and over.

Free FM at least had a lot of entertainment value and content, and they didn't even make it...
Click to expand...

In general, and outside morning shows, under-35s don't show much partisanship for non-musical programming, so in the post-Stern era, getting this demo to listen to talk is like getting a fish to ride a bicycle.

So, how does an All-News station on FM offer any kind of value to an advertiser? The listeners you "might get" on FM would likely be younger, but aren't they likely to listen to one cycle of news, and then move on??
Click to expand...

In 35-54, there is interest in news / talk. But the group uses it much less when it is only on AM... if they use it at all. Add FM, and they listen, or listen a lot more. Many, many markets have shown this.

CBS seems to be reaching on this one! Is there any empirical evidence/data showing that the younger demos don't know to turn to AM for news, if they want it? I'm puzzled?
Click to expand...

It's not about not knowing. It's about not wanting to listen to AM because they feel it sucks... a highly prevalant feeling in the under-55 demos.
 
DavidEduardo said:
airpab said:
In a Top 10 market, I fail to see how an FM simulcast of an All-News station (which is inherently redundant), is a sell to would be advertisers?
Click to expand...


In 35-54, there is interest in news / talk. But the group uses it much less when it is only on AM... if they use it at all. Add FM, and they listen, or listen a lot more. Many, many markets have shown this.

CBS seems to be reaching on this one! Is there any empirical evidence/data showing that the younger demos don't know to turn to AM for news, if they want it? I'm puzzled?
Click to expand...

It's not about not knowing. It's about not wanting to listen to AM because they feel it sucks... a highly prevalant feeling in the under-55 demos.
Click to expand...

I have to admit, it's even working on me - I'm listening in the car to KCBS more than before - probably partially because I never re-assigned my 106.9 pre-set button; but also because I'm addicted to NPR (KQED), but sometimes tune out for a few minutes if one of their long stories does not interest me. It's actually the same amount of work to switch from my FM1 band (KQED) to my FM3 band (KCBS) than it would be to switch from FM1 to AM. But I find that I'd rather listen to better sound quality...even if it's only news.
 
It is about the measuring methods now...the old method of the Arb's showed KGO had high recall, but not necessarily high listening...they tanked in the PPM. But KCBS went up, and they are betting the same with an FM simulcast. It was a much bigger waste (in real dollars, ie... talent, promotion, sales, etc...) to continue with KFRC (you cannot recapture the past or history)...so now they are hedging their bet that the PPM will show even greater gains with KCBS on the FM as well, to which they can charge even higher ad rates, and possibly bury KGO at the same time. When the methodology/measuring actual listening changed, it has forced radio stations to change how they transmit/broadcast.

The other side is it shows how flawed we've all known Arbitron Diary methods have been for 20+ years, and finally now have they only started to acknowledge that with the invent of the PPM. Though look out for Nielsen, presently they are in the infant stages (only 1 measurement a year) for the smaller to mid markets.
 
Interloper said:
It is about the measuring methods now...the old method of the Arb's showed KGO had high recall, but not necessarily high listening...they tanked in the PPM.
Click to expand...

No, they did not tank, unless being #1 12+ is tanking. They had a 6.9 in the last book, October.

However, the PPM shows even more rapidly the decrease in 25-54 listening as the former listeners move into 55+.
 
You know that 12+ is the equivalent of the "tallest midget"...sure your #1, buy no one cares because they look for folk over 6 feet. So David, KGO did take a hit in the crucial, most important demo.

You can be the #1 overall grocery store, but if you do not sell say, beer, and for this argument beer is the most desired/coveted commodity, then who cares if you are #1 in everything else?


That is the beauty with #'s, you can always find a way to be "highly ranked" by skewing the demographics...
 
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