• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

KCDX Approved for Better Signal

Good News - I have not seen discussed that KCDX's filing for a modification to its transmitter location and signal strength was approved 6/18/2020. According to FCCData.org (FCCdata.org - powered by REC) the rimshot will be improved over both Phoenix metro and especially in Tuscon with an ERP increase from 2.7KW to 42KW and a transmitter location further south and slightly west - new location is directly just a bit north of Oro Valley.

Glendale, which is outside of the current signal, will now be within its rimshot range. Downtown Phoenix which is now at the far edge of the 5th degree of the signal will now become at the edge of the 4th degree (meaning a bit stronger).

The maps show Tuscon will see a marked improvement to the signal strength for eclectic Rock & Roll 103.1 KCDX.

PS....being out of the market, this does not affect me as I stream KCDX crystal clear on KCDX.com, but anything that improves the station is a positive....UNLESS it is for the purpose of setting the signal up for an increased valuation for an eventual sell off.
 
PS....being out of the market, this does not affect me as I stream KCDX crystal clear on KCDX.com, but anything that improves the station is a positive....UNLESS it is for the purpose of setting the signal up for an increased valuation for an eventual sell off.
Looks to be a better Tucson rimshot than Phoenix, but hey these things usually follow the money.
 
You mean I'll be able to hear it in Mesa again? That hasn't happened in years.
 
You mean I'll be able to hear it in Mesa again? That hasn't happened in years.

No.

It is moving farther from the Phoenix market populated area. In fact, it appears that there will be no 60 dbu signal anywhere in Maricopa. As reference, in diary markets where we have home and work listening data, 80% of such listening is in the 70 dbu contour and 95% is in the 65 dbu contour.

In Tucson, it will be a rimshot, OK in cars but not really usable anywhere indoors... and the majority of radio listening is still in homes and workplaces.

And they go from trying to rimshot a $170 million dollar market to trying to rimshot a $35 million dollar radio revenue market. That makes no sense at all.

Here, again, is the more realistic 60 dbu signal... which is beyond the ability for most home and work radios to hear.

 
Last edited:
No.

It is moving farther from the Phoenix market populated area. In fact, it appears that there will be no 60 dbu signal anywhere in Maricopa. As reference, in diary markets where we have home and work listening data, 80% of such listening is in the 70 dbu contour and 95% is in the 65 dbu contour.

In Tucson, it will be a rimshot, OK in cars but not really usable anywhere indoors... and the majority of radio listening is still in homes and workplaces.

And they go from trying to rimshot a $170 million dollar market to trying to rimshot a $35 million dollar radio revenue market. That makes no sense at all.

Here, again, is the more realistic 60 dbu signal... which is beyond the ability for most home and work radios to hear.

Yeah I agree with you David. I don’t see where the OP is coming from thinking this is a better move for the Phoenix market. News flash: it’s not. It really doesn’t make much sense at all since the little listening they did get from the Phoenix market in the East Valley now won’t be able to hear them (at least not as well as before) while still not providing a good signal toward Tucson.

But, we do have to remember that KCDX has never been about making money. It’s a pet project of a rich owner that runs an amazing classic rock station with no commercials. So he can pretty much do whatever he wants since making money has never been the goal of KCDX. Those cacti 🌵 between Florence and Oro Valley will be rocking though!
 
The a valid question would be. What is there now. How much do they need to build, power, building for a generator and transmitter. Maybe they are trying to develop a site they can sell to Vertical bridge or American tower.
 
As the OP, here is where I am coming from. The map on the left is the projected coverage map after the move. Note how Glendale is encompassed on the extreme fringe of the signal. The map on the right is the current coverage map which shows that Glendale is out of range altogether. As for downtown Phoenix, note how it progresses from the red line (poorest fringe) up to the orange line (somewhat better penetration).

Tuscon is even more of a marked improvement, with KCDX's signal going from the outer fringe to a rimshot that is nearly within the 60 dbu black circle contour DE often cites in his posts. This will be a significant upgrade for Tuscon, and a slight signal upgrade for Phoenix.

Besides the relocation of the transmitter, much of the improvement may be due to the approved effective radiated power upgrade of the signal from 2.7 kW to 42 kW.

As I stated in my OP, as a fan of the station, I fear that this upgrade, once implemented, will measurably increase the valuation of the signal, possibly making it more attractive for the owner to sell, which would be a loss for the listeners, as this station's current format is unique on the American radio landscape.
1608055970642.png
 
As the OP, here is where I am coming from. The map on the left is the projected coverage map after the move. Note how Glendale is encompassed on the extreme fringe of the signal. The map on the right is the current coverage map which shows that Glendale is out of range altogether. As for downtown Phoenix, note how it progresses from the red line (poorest fringe) up to the orange line (somewhat better penetration).

Tuscon is even more of a marked improvement, with KCDX's signal going from the outer fringe to a rimshot that is nearly within the 60 dbu black circle contour DE often cites in his posts. This will be a significant upgrade for Tuscon, and a slight signal upgrade for Phoenix.

Besides the relocation of the transmitter, much of the improvement may be due to the approved effective radiated power upgrade of the signal from 2.7 kW to 42 kW.

As I stated in my OP, as a fan of the station, I fear that this upgrade, once implemented, will measurably increase the valuation of the signal, possibly making it more attractive for the owner to sell, which would be a loss for the listeners, as this station's current format is unique on the American radio landscape.

The only useful contour on those maps is the black, central one. That defines, for most cases, acceptable in-car listening.

The in-home and at-work listening is significantly inside the inner black contour. Based on diary returns in markets like Tucson, 95% of all listening is from inside the 65 dbu contour, which is, in rather non-technical terms, about 75% of the inner black contour. The outer colored contours in those maps represent fairly useless contours.

The transmitter power is increased because the HAAT had gone down. In FM, height and power create coverage... more power at lower height is the same as low power and higher elevation. There is plenty of real math behind that, but just know that those 6,000 watt stations on the Empire state building at 1362 feet are exactly the same as 50 kw at 150 meterst, the standard for their class of station. Once a station meets the maximum height for its class, going any higher requires power reductions:


Note that this station is a C1, limited to 100 kw at 300 meters... that means that the potected 60 dbu contour is only 45 miles from the site, and the city grade is 31 miles out. Happy listening for cacti and not much else.

1608058835182.png

The new 70 dbu covers less than 60,000 persons. The 65 dbu covers 42,000. The 60 dbu covers just over 100 thousand.

The Blue, Orange and Red contours are useless for audience attraction. The green, at best is fair to marginal in-car reception but out of range for decent home or work radios.

The station is a marginal rimshot for Tucson. It is totally useless for Phoenix, as there is not enough signal even in the south-of-Tempe zone, for reasonable reception in most cases.

Listeners are not DXers. The fact that a station can be heard if you try hard enough does not mean it is one that the average listener will ever discover or find to be satisfactory.

If the owner offered to give me the station, I'd turn it down with no thought whatsoever.
 
Last edited:
If the owner offered to give me the station, I'd turn it down with no thought whatsoever.
...but if the signal looks better on paper and/or if a prospective buyer is looking to cover both Tucson and Phoenix (using other in-market signals to cover the proper markets), 103.1 could be a highway link station between the two markets, creating a regional signal. Having not examined the population distribution, I don't know whether the new KCDX coverage is useful even in that context, but it would appear to be of more utility now than the old coverage, which hit neither market well.

As for the eclectic format, if the goal is to sell the signal (and why else upgrade it?), that format is toast.
 
...but if the signal looks better on paper and/or if a prospective buyer is looking to cover both Tucson and Phoenix (using other in-market signals to cover the proper markets), 103.1 could be a highway link station between the two markets, creating a regional signal. Having not examined the population distribution, I don't know whether the new KCDX coverage is useful even in that context, but it would appear to be of more utility now than the old coverage, which hit neither market well.

As for the eclectic format, if the goal is to sell the signal (and why else upgrade it?), that format is toast.

Station buyers with any experience know how to do due diligence and that includes verification of useful coverage. Often, the buyer's consulting engineer is asked for a study that shows the usable coverage that is not impaired by adjacent channels, translators and even LPFM assignments.

I can't tell you how many times I "drove signals" to check on possible acquisitions. Rather than using the car radio, I used a portable put on the car seat with enough antenna to clear the window. That gave an idea of the in-home reception, and was enlightening to say the least.

Buyers know that outside the protected contour there can be other co-channel stations, particulary translators and LPFMs. They buy the protected contour, in this case the 60 dbu.

There is really no ad market for a between-market Phoenix and Tucson facility.
 
The Google Earth photo is probably years old.
No, don't think so.

About a mile southeast of those coordinates, there's a road that leads to a tower. That tower is at 32.763556, -110.937509

That seems to be the closest power to the location.

Now, let's hope that Ted isn't planning on powering up the new KCDX location as he's done with KRDX - solar power! :eek:
 
<...>It’s a pet project of a rich owner that runs an amazing classic rock station with no commercials. So he can pretty much do whatever he wants since making money has never been the goal of KCDX.
Listen to the on-line stream long enough, and you will sometimes hear a single commercial (as I've stated in another thread on the topic...), then back to the music. I think he might be bartering some of his Internet costs, and, during the political season, the local congressman had an ad run periodically. One single :30 or :60, then music continues.

Perhaps being where it's been for >15 years, that station isn't going to be for sale anytime soon. The move simply puts his playtoy a bit closer to his hometown.

Oh, I did look up that tower - cell phone tower. As noted earlier, gonna take a few bucks to actually get power & equipment up there.
 
But, we do have to remember that KCDX has never been about making money. It’s a pet project of a rich owner that runs an amazing classic rock station with no commercials. So he can pretty much do whatever he wants since making money has never been the goal of KCDX.
I never really paid it much mind, but because of this thread I tuned in on my car radio on Monday...and my car is old enough to have a radio and not "infotainment."

Added to my presets.
 
Anyone who has studied Ted Tucker's past knows that many construction permits are never built. In this case we might be looking at an intermediate step whose purpose is to extend predicted contours strictly on paper. One purpose might be to keep would-be Tucson operators away from 103.1 and vicinity. This could also be a stepping stone to moving the transmitter closer to the Phoenix market. Anyone who thinks that KCDX is just a labor of love knows nothing about Tucker's mode of operation which is to eventually move stations into the big city and sell them at huge capital gains. There is no better example than 95.1 which is licensed to Sun City West. It began in Winslow. After it moved it got sold for over $18 million. Nearly all the Tucker stations are commercial free until they get sold. One of the few exceptions is KKYZ in Sierra Vista which does sell advertising.
 
He (Tucker) has certainly been entertaining for the last 20-odd years... 📻
 
Seeing the earlier comments, I went back and ran the before-and-after plots using the FCC's contour API, including throwing in the new null towards Cananea, Sonora. The new numbers are surprisingly good.

OLD
60 dBu : 102,558
65 dBu : 40,750
70 dbu : 32,073

NEW (Incorporating antenna pattern figures)
60 dBu : 631,929
65 dBu : 371,612
70 dBu : 125,439

Of course, a better model would be a Longley-Rice type product with fractal computations, etc... but my higher resolution models did not include directional antenna patterns. Still, it looks like Tucker thought this one out --- now if he could just get some AC up the mountain

BTW, 600,000-800,000 is a typical 60dBu pop count for a Tucson-centric C3 FMer.. The few class "A" Tucson-metro outlets would fall on the lower end of the scale but all would have much higher 70dbU numbers.

A successful advertising strategy would be to use "national advertisers" as the new KCDX coverage is split between the "exburbs" (extreme suburbs) of metro Phoenix and Tucson.
 
Last edited:
If this proposal is of interest my suggestion would be to find out who owns the proposed transmitter site. It appears to be located in Pinal County. The county assessor would have the answer but you'd have to give the township, range and section. A call to the owner might well reveal that they are unaware of the proposed transmitter site and wouldn't allow it. Even if the land is owned by the State of Arizona it might not be allowed, and if it is permitted the rental rate could be outrageous. Again, this might be a proposal on paper that will never be built. If Ted Tucker is the applicant don't rule anything out.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom