KCKC FM - Large Playlist Success ?

[TheBigA]

How exactly does that work? Isnt billie jean overplayed around the country, for instance?

Looking at WCBS, they play Billie Jean twice a day, 15 times a week.

By contrast, they play Jack & Diane once a week. They don't play a lot of Mellencamp there,

Some songs rotate in and out of the playlist, but those two were the same this week and last week.

For example, Love is a Battlefield was played 17 times this week, and four times last week.

Gonna Make You Sweat was played 16 times this week, and five times last week.

 

[davideduardo]

Does this test population in market #2 work the same (accuracy, reliability, repeatability) in market #60 - or market #90?

Sure it does. The point is having a representative sample of regular listeners evaluate each and every song a station plays and lots of songs that it might play.

 

[davideduardo]

How exactly does that work? Isnt billie jean overplayed around the country, for instance?

What difference does "around the country" make to a specific station in a single market?

A music test determines whether your station's local listeners like a song or not and then, how much it should be played.

 

[davideduardo]

Statistics professionals will tell you such sampling is accurate, reliable and repeatable wherever it's tested. Critics point to unexpected election results as proof that polling is smoke and mirrors, but every poll comes with a margin of error, and all those outcomes fell within it.

In an election, just a handful of votes can make a difference. But in radio, the acceptable margin of error is much broader because we are not seeking the one single winning song. We look for the acceptable songs, and then break them into different rotation levels that have different rotations.

So if an AC has 300 or so songs in the library, then the gold may be grouped into three or four categories, each rotating at a different speed. So there might be 80 power golds, all rotating at the same rate... in other words, 80 "winners" for that rotation level.

And that 300 song playlist may be the product of a 500 to 600 song music test... meaning 200 or more "losers" that did not score well enough or which had significant negative scores and can't be played.

 

[Kent]

But this is only because a huge chunk of those 12,000 stations are in rural areas and in tiny markets. Most of us live in a top 100 market. The same general owners are in all 100. It's difficult to find a market in the top 100 that does not have iHeart, Cumulus, or Audacy represented.

The only top-50 market where iHeart has no stations is Kansas City. I believe the next largest one to not have an iHeart presence is Buffalo, which is just outside the top-50. Both of those markets have Audacy and Cumulus. While finding those three operators in most markets isn't that difficult, avoiding them isn't that hard in most either.

Most people, however, don't avoid radio stations or listening in general because of ownership. That's something only people here do. People know what they like, and, if they like the music mix and the chatter doesn't turn them off, they'll listen. If no one liked what's on the local iHeart station, no one would listen.

I won't tell you I'm a fan of how the largest operators do radio, but the smaller operators tend to do it the same way. You won't find many stations that are live and local 24/7. The private equity firms that own iHeart and Cumulus might be different, but my experience has always been that most owners and operators of radio stations want what the rest of us want. The problem is they have to make money off of those stations, and doing that on a bloated payroll usually isn't possible.

 

[tall_guy1]

What difference does "around the country" make to a specific station in a single market?

A music test determines whether your station's local listeners like a song or not and then, how much it should be played.

Not every station does local testing though. Cumulis in particular has with their jack and at least in the past with pop has taken a more nationalized approach.

 

[davideduardo]

Not every station does local testing though. Cumulis in particular has with their jack and at least in the past with pop has taken a more nationalized approach.

Yes, in today's economy there is a lot of test sharing. Markets that have shown to be very "parallel" in test results will rotate tests between markets. And smaller market stations will share tests.

In fact, test sharing goes back to the later 80's where many consultants would get several client stations to rotate tests, perhaps four stations each doing a local test every two years; all four would share the cost and get a new test every 6 months from a similar market. An example would be country station in Albany, GA, Pensacola and Tallahassee, FL and Dothan, Al, sharing this way.

 

[Kent]

Not every station does local testing though. Cumulis in particular has with their jack and at least in the past with pop has taken a more nationalized approach.

Not sure how many local Jack FM's Cumulus owns these days, but Jack is one of the most locally focused and researched concepts around today. Each Jack that SparkNet consults is tailored specifically for its local market. Obviously, the satellite version of it can't be done that way, but it's still well-researched.

When I worked for Cumulus, it did a ton of market research. It spent more on research in its first three months in my local market than any other company had spent the previous 15 years combined. Having said that, most of the research money it spent was for marketing research. It was research done to increase sales, and programming research was limited to what holes the market had and whether we had the right parts in place to fill any of them without compromising our existing revenue. I left after about four months, and that cluster had one format change of a station from classic rock to oldies shortly afterward. The company also did more music research than we'd ever done previously, but that research, far as I know, wasn't done completely locally. Cumulus playlists had a reputation for being vanilla for a reason. Adds and moves were generally done from Atlanta, and local markets had little control over that. The growth strategy Cumulus employed in its early days was to buy bottom feeders and move them to the middle of the pack. It was fine with plateauing somewhere in the middle so long as it did well enough to get national ad buys. I understand centralized playlists are a thing of the past at Cumulus today, but I don't know exactly what system it's using now. I know it still has brand managers and has contracts with consulting firms, but I don't know how much freedom local markets have to work with each or if they can work with outside firms. I can't imagine most smaller Cumulus markets have the budget to go outside of the company, but it might happen in larger ones.

 

[tall_guy1]

Not sure how many local Jack FM's Cumulus owns these days, but Jack is one of the most locally focused and researched concepts around today. Each Jack that SparkNet consults is tailored specifically for its local market. Obviously, the satellite version of it can't be done that way, but it's still well-researched.

When I worked for Cumulus, it did a ton of market research. It spent more on research in its first three months in my local market than any other company had spent the previous 15 years combined. Having said that, most of the research money it spent was for marketing research. It was research done to increase sales, and programming research was limited to what holes the market had and whether we had the right parts in place to fill any of them without compromising our existing revenue. I left after about four months, and that cluster had one format change of a station from classic rock to oldies shortly afterward. The company also did more music research than we'd ever done previously, but that research, far as I know, wasn't done completely locally. Cumulus playlists had a reputation for being vanilla for a reason. Adds and moves were generally done from Atlanta, and local markets had little control over that. The growth strategy Cumulus employed in its early days was to buy bottom feeders and move them to the middle of the pack. It was fine with plateauing somewhere in the middle so long as it did well enough to get national ad buys. I understand centralized playlists are a thing of the past at Cumulus today, but I don't know exactly what system it's using now. I know it still has brand managers and has contracts with consulting firms, but I don't know how much freedom local markets have to work with each or if they can work with outside firms. I can't imagine most smaller Cumulus markets have the budget to go outside of the company, but it might happen in larger ones.

Cumulus jack playlists are almost all the same these days.

 

[seatownmedia]

”We play what we want”. Smoke and mirrors. Most of these formats, as mentioned above research their target audience. All it is is a different way to sell an oldies format. By the way oldies today is not a common term but the Jack format, or Bob, etc are just new names for oldies. Let’s face it these stations are 2022 versions of oldies radio. The marketing has changed and for good reason. No listener between 45 and 60 want to hear the term “oldies”.

 

[davideduardo]

Cumulus jack playlists are almost all the same these days.

The difference have always been subtle. Due to TV shows that play music, between "Dancing with the Nearly Unknown Wannabees" to the song or two played on 11:30 PM talk shows to variety shows and award shows, the US has fairly uniform tastes within genres everywhere.

 

[TheBigA]

Let’s face it these stations are 2022 versions of oldies radio.

It sounds like you've never listened. There are lots of differences. Oldies stations are more focused on 60s & 70s. Jack is 70s & 80s. Oldies is very personality oriented. Jack has no personalities. Just an imaging voice. The music is more rock oriented than the pop you hear on oldies stations. And they tend to be successful, so the marketing works. The only real similarity is they don't play currents.

 

[seatownmedia]

I have listened. Oldies stations, 60’s/70’s are aging out. My point is Jack/Bob are filling the gap.

 

[TheBigA]

I have listened. Oldies stations, 60’s/70’s are aging out. My point is Jack/Bob are filling the gap.

But the style of presentation is different. Not aimed at the same audience.

They are two different formats: Adult Hits vs Classic Hits.

 

[seatownmedia]

I think you are a bit too nuanced on this. Of course they are two different formats. I think you are missing my point. Radio needs to appeal to 18-49 as it always has. Classic Hits (oldies) is generally a 50-plus format.

 

[TheBigA]

I think you are a bit too nuanced on this. Of course they are two different formats. I think you are missing my point. Radio needs to appeal to 18-49 as it always has. Classic Hits (oldies) is generally a 50-plus format.

Radio is not one thing, and older music doesn't only attract old people. Some of these so-called classic stations are #1 in 18-34. For example The Jet in Seattle is #1 in 18-49. So much for your assumption about the classic hits format. But if you try to do an actual oldies format with 60s pop, the median audience will be much older. That's why I say they're not the same.

But there's no problem with radio stations that aim at 50+. News Talk is mostly 50+. The problem with older formats is advertising.

 

[davideduardo]

I think you are a bit too nuanced on this. Of course they are two different formats. I think you are missing my point. Radio needs to appeal to 18-49 as it always has.

The key radio demo range is 25-54. 18-49 is the television prime demo, and also the target for most ethnic radio buys.

Classic Hits (oldies) is generally a 50-plus format.

"Oldies" and "classic hits" are two well defined and different radio formats. Oldies is 65+ in appeal and consists of music with a 1960's decade core. "Classic Hits" has a 80's core with a bit of late 70's and an increasing 90's sampling.

As to oldies, a person who was a teen in the 60's is in their mid-70's now. In fact, if we draw a parallel between baby boomers and the music played on true oldies stations, we see that the oldest boomers are now about to turn 77 and the youngest are around 62 or 63. And "oldies" stations, the few that exist in rated markets, almost precisely parallel that age group.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio is not one thing, and older music doesn't only attract old people. Some of these so-called classic stations are #1 in 18-34. For example The Jet in Seattle is #1 in 18-49. So much for your assumption about the classic hits format.

And those big classic hits numbers in young demos occur because the listeners for CHR, Churban, Urban and like are nearly all gone from terrestrial radio because the stations playing those formats can't air 75% or more of the songs that people want to hear and actually can get through streaming.

 

[TheBigA]

And those big classic hits numbers in young demos occur because the listeners for CHR, Churban, Urban and like are nearly all gone from terrestrial radio because the stations playing those formats can't air 75% or more of the songs that people want to hear and actually can get through streaming.

I think that 75% number is a bit high. Compare the songs on the Hot 100 with the airplay charts, and it's a lot smaller. Right now, the Hot 100 is filled with Christmas songs that are being played on AC stations. CHR stations are playing some Christmas, although not to the degree as AC stations. I imagine you say 75% because of language, and a lot of songs have radio edits that handle the language problem. Once we get past Christmas, I'll do another comparative analysis of Hot 100 and CHR.

 

[davideduardo]

I imagine you say 75% because of language, and a lot of songs have radio edits that handle the language problem.

Followers of those music genres will not agree that edits "handle" the profanity issue. They know the song is not the "real" version and the stations loses totally its cred.