KCRW Reduces Staff

[ChannelFlipper]

I'm one of "those who know." I filled out those grant forms myself when I was at a station. They are NOT vague or "fungible." They are very specific. When you get money from the government, they want to know exactly where it will be used, and how the money will serve the purpose for which it was given. Most of the funding comes in the form of "community service grants." It's matching money based on the amount the station raises locally.

Your argument reminds me of the mom and her drug addicted son. The mom proudly tells her friends "my son has a terrible and dangerous drug addiction. Because he is in such a bad condition I gladly pay for his rent, food and utilities, but I will not contribute a dime for any of his drug use"

I am also one of those in the know. I work with federal and other governmental grants on a regular basis - I have *taught* (indirectly) on the subject in the past. If you think that government funds are not fungible, you simply are WRONG. All cash is fungible, period unless you don't have any other dollars other than the ones the government gives you. If you do, (and KCRW does), every dollar that the government gives to its preferred project is one more dollar that the recipient organization can use for its own general purposes. KCRW has plenty of unrestricted funds at its disposal and every dollar they received from the government was one they didn't have to spend from their sizeable general fund. The government therefore is subsidizing the entire operation.

 

[TheBigA]

If you think that government funds are not fungible, you simply are WRONG. All cash is fungible, period. Every dollar that the government gives to its preferred project is one more dollar that the recipient organizer can use for its own general purposes.

You're describing two different things. Every dollar they get from the government MUST be accounted for. If the federal funds go away, the government programs go away. Simple as that. That's why the small states want to retain that government money. KCRW likely doesn't need federal funds. But the way those funds are distributed requires them to receive their fair share. If you deal in government grants, you know that government funding is not based on need. It's based on fulfilling prescribed goals. The big successful stations in the big blue states make it possible for the small stations in the red states to exist. That's why Congress has approved their appropriation every year.

 

[davideduardo]

The idea that the US has a "relatively neutral government broadcast service" represents nothing more than delusional fantasy on the part of you and Big A among others, that you have been peddling without success for years . Makes one think you both may have a personal stake in all of this.

BigA has succinctly described the fact that entities like PBS, NPR and the individual local stations are not run by a directly reporting government agency; they are supported by the government in part. But they are not operated by the government. That would be the VOA, Radio Mart?*, et. al.

Those entities are supported by the govenment, not run by them.

Interestingly, the only NPR station I have ever been inside is WIPR and that was perhaps 4 decades ago. That station dropped its NPR support, just like its TV, Channel 6, changed its PBS status.

Other than that, besides being an occasional user of those services, I have no relationship. Two friends who were managers of WIPR left after less than two years each, frustrated with the bureaucracy and politics; each is a member of a different political party.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The formats require and receive membership money to exist. The federal money is so the station exists.

It's not fringe formats, you're pushing a fringe ideology. Most Republicans don't agree with you. Especially those from states where public radio is owned by the state, such as South Carolina and Mississippi. There, the governors need the federal money. The head of the CPB is a Trump appointee and a lifelong Republican.

Not sure where you got the idea that I am Republican (I am not). I know you didn't outright accuse me of being one, but you are implying that "my Republican comrades" don't agree with me and that the idea of each format competing in the marketplace is some sort of radical idea, which of course it is not. I do find it interesting that when it comes to regular commercial radio you are squarely in the "we only give the public what it wants, and that is how we win in the market" camp, but when it comes to NPR, this is a "very important service that is simply too important to be left to to the mechanics of the free market". Either the format is good enough to compete or it is not. I don't see Rush asking to be subsidized (of course he runs much better programming).

I believe NPR, as an unsubsized entity, does and would have a place in the free market (which includes listener-funded models, not just a commercial model) and would thrive there, probably as a better product. I feel the same way about AAA, jazz, classical and even KCSN's old format Americana, all formats I love that have very little public support.

 

[TheBigA]

Not sure where you got the idea that I am Republican (I am not),

I never said you were. I'm just pointing out that defunding public broadcasting is not an unusual idea, but those who typically bring it up in Congress are on the extreme right. And even in the world of Trump, they have been unable to get it done. Just like they couldn't repeal and replace health care. You want to get rid of federal funding? The only way to do it is in Congress. So run for Congress and get it done. You'll discover why they continue to get funded.

Either the format is good enough to compete or it is not.

Public broadcasting doesn't play in that game at all. They don't compete. That's why the commercial broadcasters love them. That's why Cumulus sold some stations to EMF. Less competition. In addition, public stations provide the formats that commercial broadcasters can't make money with. That's why Saul flipped KKGO from classical to country, and why his Global Jazz subsidiary runs KKJZ. It's the only way he can be involved with the music he loves and still make money.

BTW Rush COULD ask for a subsidy, but he's have to take a huge pay cut, and he'd have to form a non-profit. It could be done, but he makes more money than the government gives to NPR. I can tell you his show receives government advertising money from NHTSA and a few other agencies. Plus he got a huge gift from the president himself.

I believe NPR, as an unsubsized entity, does and would have a place in the free market

It doesn't matter. It's not going to happen. Commercial broadcasters don't want it to happen. They would get KILLED if they had to compete with some of these stations. And as I said, the red states need NPR to provide news and information where the commercial companies have left.

 

[TheBigA]

That station dropped its NPR support, just like its TV, Channel 6, changed its PBS status.

Keep in mind that NPR doesn't "support" stations. It's the other way around. NPR gets some of its money from station membership fees, based on market size and program usage. The stations get their federal funding from CPB, and CPB gets its funding from Congress.

As I said, it's possible for a station to drop NPR but still receive CPB money. I believe KCSN gets some CPB money because it meets the requirements. KKJZ also qualifies for CPB money even though it doesn't air any NPR programming. NPR membership is more than just radio programming. Stations also receive free research information, free marketing, and free representation (lobbying) in Congress.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Stations also receive free research information, free marketing, and free representation (lobbying) in Congress.

THAT is why NPR is never going away. You accidentally gave the game away.

 

[davideduardo]

Keep in mind that NPR doesn't "support" stations. It's the other way around. NPR gets some of its money from station membership fees, based on market size and program usage. The stations get their federal funding from CPB, and CPB gets its funding from Congress.

As I said, it's possible for a station to drop NPR but still receive CPB money. I believe KCSN gets some CPB money because it meets the requirements. KKJZ also qualifies for CPB money even though it doesn't air any NPR programming. NPR membership is more than just radio programming. Stations also receive free research information, free marketing, and free representation (lobbying) in Congress.

I meant programming support from NPR. The station was finding fewer and fewer programs that were appropriate and useful for the market, so they made a budget change. I was under the impression that there were several levels of station membership, and I thought they might have simply scaled back as I never heard the they had cancelled. The newspaper reported (and this is a translation) they they had "reduced their participation in the National Public Radio network..."

I think that, when the decision was made, they had found that not a single NPR program was appropriate for the coverage area of the station which has 125,000 watts at 2,707 feet above average terrain.

 

[TheBigA]

THAT is why NPR is never going away. You accidentally gave the game away.

The NPR lobbyists have more to do with regulation than money. Once again, Congress doesn't fund NPR. They fund CPB.

 

[gr8oldies]

Dump the stations which get CPB funding where I live, and they'll be replaced by even more fire and brimstone preaching on the left side of the dial. The big money people around here aren't interested in radio. Minor league baseball stadiums, then we're talking.

Sugar Daddy is not required. These may be fringe formats, but they are not formats that require taxpayer money to exist. The market hates a vacuum, and eventually someone will come along and find a way to profitably program to them. And Saul was no sugar daddy. He earned his money for years playing jazz and classical as a for-profit venture on KKGO/KMZT.

 

[Delete My Account]

Some of that CPB money goes to serve very rural areas, who'd otherwise have little coverage of their own state capitol's happenings. I recall one county where for many years, the CPB recipient station was the only locally originated station in the county, in a fairly remote part of the state. I imagine it's similar in places like Alaska and parts of the Western US. The funding isn't easy money or a handout. The recipients have to work and account for it.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Dump the stations which get CPB funding where I live, and they'll be replaced by even more fire and brimstone preaching on the left side of the dial. The big money people around here aren't interested in radio. Minor league baseball stadiums, then we're talking.

Minor league baseball is better than most radio, so sounds like a sensible choice.

 

[Kelly A]

I don't see Rush asking to be subsidized (of course he runs much better programming).

Not a Republican, but a Rush Limbaugh fan?

Minor league baseball is better than most radio, so sounds like a sensible choice.

Someone who trolls the Radio Discussions forums. Curmudgeon alert.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Not a Republican, but a Rush Limbaugh fan?

Rush is a radio entertainer first and an endorser of conservative politics second (just ask him, he has said so many times). He broadcasts to millions of people each day, many of which do not share all of his views but still find his show to be compelling enough to tune into.

Someone who trolls the Radio Discussions forums. Curmudgeon alert.

Call me a troll if you want, but I have been active on this board (and its predecessors before it was taken over by Radio Discussions) agreeing with and challenging fellow posters in the spirit of active but civil discourse for over twenty years due to my lifelong love of radio. This is the first post of yours that I can recall seeing. You actually might want to read the boards you are going to post on before leveling (highly uninformed, as evidenced above) ad hominem attacks, otherwise fair-minded readers might consider you the... troll.

 

[TheBigA]

Rush is a radio entertainer first and an endorser of conservative politics second

Whose show receives advertising money from an agency of the federal government. It's not a subsidy, but then again, Rush is not a non-profit organization.

The money that goes to CPB isn't meant for all broadcasters, just those who meet the qualifications set in the law. If Rush met those qualifications, he too could receive that subsidy.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Whose show receives advertising money from an agency of the federal government. It's not a subsidy, but then again, Rush is not a non-profit organization.

The money that goes to CPB isn't meant for all broadcasters, just those who meet the qualifications set in the law. If Rush met those qualifications, he too could receive that subsidy.

You have made this point several times but I don't see any relevance. I originally made the point as an off-hand comment that Rush doesn't go asking for any handouts; he doesn't need to because his show succeeds on its own merits in the marketplace, whereas NPR simultaneously says on one hand they don't really need government money since it represents a small amount of their operating budget, but wails out loud to anyone who listens that the service will be severely compromised should the same government funds be taken away. People "in the know" know the second statement is not true.

The government, through the "Ad Council" and other ventures buys time on all sorts of programming on TV and radio stations all across the fruited plains. If they want to reach a very sizable radio audience at one time, then Rush's show is an excellent way to do so, but they have to compete against other advertisers and pay his rates like anyone else. So they advertise on his show, so what?

 

[TheBigA]

You have made this point several times but I don't see any relevance.

KCRW doesn't ASK for a government subsidy either. They are qualified to receive it. That's all that matters here.

The paid commercials that iHeart airs during the Rush show are NOT from the Ad Council. They are PAID commercials. The agency was one of my clients. The check we received was from the US Treasury.

I should also point out that in the LA marketplace, KCRW gets better ratings than KEIB.

 

[davideduardo]

You have made this point several times but I don't see any relevance. I originally made the point as an off-hand comment that Rush doesn't go asking for any handouts; he doesn't need to because his show succeeds on its own merits in the marketplace, whereas NPR simultaneously says on one hand they don't really need government money since it represents a small amount of their operating budget, but wails out loud to anyone who listens that the service will be severely compromised should the same government funds be taken away. People "in the know" know the second statement is not true.

And you don't think that the morning and afternoon news-based segments on NPR couldn't / wouldn't be sold out if you could buy commercial time there? In many markets they outrank the local news / talk station and advertisers wish they could buy ads there. On the other hand, look at the "blue ribbon" list of sponsors that NPR has.

Remember, most government funds for the local stations are only granted if the station corresponds with successful local support activities. BigA can further contribute, but you are mostly wrong on NPR... particularly on the next point which is a fly ball deep into left field.

The government, through the "Ad Council" and other ventures buys time on all sorts of programming on TV and radio stations all across the fruited plains. If they want to reach a very sizable radio audience at one time, then Rush's show is an excellent way to do so, but they have to compete against other advertisers and pay his rates like anyone else. So they advertise on his show, so what?

The "Ad Council" is a confederation of ad agencies and advertising professionals who volunteer time, creativity, their agency's production facilities and their contacts with media to produce and distribute public service audio, video, print and digital media campaigns for a group of organizations, both governmental and private non-profits, which they select.

They create campaigns, produce the materials and distribute to the media. Stations, magazines, newspapers and websites and even billboards contribute time or space for the ads.

NO money changes hands.

 

[davideduardo]

Not a Republican, but a Rush Limbaugh fan?.

That should be in the dictionary definition of "oxymoron": A non-republican Rush fan.

Maybe he means the Canadian band?

 

[TheBigA]

Remember, most government funds for the local stations are only granted if the station corresponds with successful local support activities. BigA can further contribute, but you are mostly wrong on NPR... particularly on the next point which is a fly ball deep into left field.

A big part of what public broadcasting does is educational, in conjunction with area school systems and universities. That's typically how they qualify for federal funds. Here's one example that's going on now in LA, from CPB.org:

As school districts shutdown across our country due to the coronavirus outbreak, public
television stations are offering their broadcast and online services to help teachers continue
educational instruction and close the homework gap (those who are connected online and for
those who are not). For example, in Southern California, PBS SoCal, KCET, and KLCS in
partnership with the Los Angeles Unified School District and in collaboration with California
PBS member stations, are delivering a broadcast schedule that is designed and sequenced to
support instruction for children in grades PreK-12. To complement the broadcast component,
they have partnered with KQED to support teachers with PBS LearningMedia’s free resources
that map to state curriculum standards.