KDBN AND CEDAR HILL

[War Of Attrition]

Does anyone (off the top of their head) know what in the current allotment would need to change so that KDBN can move to Cedar Hill as a C1?

I am curious and don't have the time to run the data from the FCC database. Is it only KSTV (Dublin), KTYL (Tyler), and KDHT (Cedar Park)?

 

[War Of Attrition]

For anyone interested, I had some time last night to pilfer through the FCC database and answered my own question.

KDBN (The Bone) could move to Cedar Hill and upgrade to a C1 (essentially mirroring the coverage of Movin 107.5) with the following two modifications.

1) KSTV - 93.1 - Dublin
- Moves 7.5 miles to the south or west or
- Downgrades from a Class C3 to a Class A

2) KDHT - 93.3 - Cedar Park (Austin)
- Downgrades from a Class C to a Class C2

 

[salemjedi54]

Do you think Cumulus will pay to get all that done

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

I realize they are Cume-less, but they'd have to be totally CLUELESS to overlook that opertunity to fix a pretty much broken move-in like KDBN currently is.

 

[RadioGooRoo]

KDHT has some signal challenges of its own due to Austin's terrain. I wonder if it would be better served by downgrading and moving closer to town anyway?

 

[Kent]

While I'm sure Cumulus would like to do an upgrade like that on KDBN, it's not likely to happen. Emmis is not going to allow KDHT 93.3 to be downgraded to a C2, at least not unless it includes moving to a tower site closer to Austin. If KDHT were to downgrade to a C2 from its present site, it wouldn't be nearly as viable of an Austin signal and might not be viable in Austin at all. Even if it were to move to the much closer-to-Austin KLQB site as a C2, it would only citygrade a little more than half of Travis County.

 

[TexasTom]

KDHT has some signal challenges of its own due to Austin's terrain. I wonder if it would be better served by downgrading and moving closer to town anyway?

KDHT couldn't move closer to Austin due to the fact that it is already short spacing KLBJ-FM at 93.7. Any move closer to Austin would increase the short space, which the FCC wouldn't allow.

Oh, and there's one other possible short spacing concern for KDBN: depending on which Cedar Hill tower is used, there could be a slight short spacing (around 2 km) with KMKT 93.1, Bells/Sherman/Denison.

 

[War Of Attrition]

KDHT couldn't move closer to Austin due to the fact that it is already short spacing KLBJ-FM at 93.7.

You are correct regarding the short-spacing. KDHT started off as a Killeen station and should have never been given permission to move so close to KLBJ-FM. The Johnson's ownership of the stations may have had something to do with it.

One possible remedy I thought of was KDHT going with an extreme direction antenna. Since the entire market is to the south and southeast of the tower site, they could add a null to the north and northeast which would allow them to serve Austin essentially the same as now and allow the KDBN upgrade.

Oh, and there's one other possible short spacing concern for KDBN: depending on which Cedar Hill tower is used, there could be a slight short spacing (around 2 km) with KMKT 93.1, Bells/Sherman/Denison.

I was aware of KMKT and forgot to mention it in my post. Thanks for the correction.

 

[TexasTom]

You are correct regarding the short-spacing. KDHT started off as a Killeen station and should have never been given permission to move so close to KLBJ-FM. The Johnson's ownership of the stations may have had something to do with it.

One possible remedy I thought of was KDHT going with an extreme direction antenna. Since the entire market is to the south and southeast of the tower site, they could add a null to the north and northeast which would allow them to serve Austin essentially the same as now and allow the KDBN upgrade.

Unless the FCC has gutted the FM technical rules even more than I'm aware of, that wouldn't be an allowable solution. In order to allow the KDBN C1 upgrade, the FCC would require that KDBN be able to demonstrate that the allocation can be fit in without using contour protection at some possible geographic coordinates -- even if the station is never built at those coordinates. In other words, it would be necessary to show that KDBN could be built as a C1 without short spacing any other stations at all -- and I don't believe that any such coordinates could be found that wouldn't short space either KDHT or KMKT without substantially downgrading one (or both) of those stations.

As an aside, the KMKT downgrade that might work would involve reducing KMKT to a class A facility and returning it to its originally allocated frequency of 92.9 MHz. That might allow KDBN to propose a fully spaced site for the station as a full C1 north of Cedar Hill, and then use contour protection (by either KDBN or KDHT) to actually build at Cedar Hill.

 

[CW]

KDHT couldn't move closer to Austin due to the fact that it is already short spacing KLBJ-FM at 93.7.

You are correct regarding the short-spacing. KDHT started off as a Killeen station and should have never been given permission to move so close to KLBJ-FM. The Johnson's ownership of the stations may have had something to do with it.

One possible remedy I thought of was KDHT going with an extreme direction antenna. Since the entire market is to the south and southeast of the tower site, they could add a null to the north and northeast which would allow them to serve Austin essentially the same as now and allow the KDBN upgrade.

93.3 was allowed to be grandfathered after the 1963 spacing rules went into effect. Once it was short spaced, they used a loophole in the FCC rules on short spacing/1963 rules to get the 2000ft site at Bertran approved. Wasnt anything to do with the Johnson's (they owned 93.7 and would have complained if anything!)..Directional antennas are only allowed to prevent contour interference...NOT improve coverage in a particular direction. DaBONE will probably never get a C1, especially on Cedar Hill.......

 

[jd]

A couple of things to add to the discussion. First, KDBN is a "contour-protection" station, something that's evident by looking at their coverage map. www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM565571.html They already afford protection to KMKT, KDHT and KIKT 93.5 Greenville. So if KDBN is a contour protection station already does that give them some leeway to upgrade to a C1 (at their present site or at Cedar Hill) as long as they could maintain similar co-channel and first adjacent protection? It's also noteworthy that several years ago Susquehanna bought KIKT (along with sister AM KGVL) and later filed an application to move it northeastward to Cooper. The construction permit is still valid, if that tells you anything. Apparently someone believed moving KDBN to Cedar Hill could have been done; otherwise they wouldn't have wasted the money on clearing KIKT out of the way.

 

[TexasTom]

A couple of things to add to the discussion. First, KDBN is a "contour-protection" station, something that's evident by looking at their coverage map. www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM565571.html They already afford protection to KMKT, KDHT and KIKT 93.5 Greenville. So if KDBN is a contour protection station already does that give them some leeway to upgrade to a C1 (at their present site or at Cedar Hill) as long as they could maintain similar co-channel and first adjacent protection?

No, it doesn't. The FCC does not allow a station to upgrade to a higher class (such as going from C2 to C1 for KDBN) unless the station is able to show that a fully spaced site exists for the upgraded station. That's true even if they never build that fully spaced facility and instead opt for an alternate site using contour protection.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

A couple of things to add to the discussion. First, KDBN is a "contour-protection" station, something that's evident by looking at their coverage map. www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM565571.html They already afford protection to KMKT, KDHT and KIKT 93.5 Greenville. [...]

After consulting the coverage area in the URL quoted above, my take on the matter is that KDBN has a great ``close-in'' signal but possibly the wrong format. I don't have access to an ``ethnicity map'', presuming that one exists but I'd surmise that an Hispanic format or black format would be efficient on this facility.

If David Eduardo is lurking about... in theory, would a swap between KESS and KDBN serve either station any better in terms of reaching the target audiences in hot zips with the present formats on each?

 

[salemjedi54]

A couple of things to add to the discussion. First, KDBN is a "contour-protection" station, something that's evident by looking at their coverage map. www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM565571.html They already afford protection to KMKT, KDHT and KIKT 93.5 Greenville. [...]

After consulting the coverage area in the URL quoted above, my take on the matter is that KDBN has a great ``close-in'' signal but possibly the wrong format. I don't have access to an ``ethnicity map'', presuming that one exists but I'd surmise that an Hispanic format or black format would be efficient on this facility.

If David Eduardo is lurking about... in theory, would a swap between KESS and KDBN serve either station any better in terms of reaching the target audiences in hot zips with the present formats on each?

LOL...Thats all we need another Urban AC that we can't hear!!!!!!

 

[Kent]

After consulting the coverage area in the URL quoted above, my take on the matter is that KDBN has a great ``close-in'' signal but possibly the wrong format. I don't have access to an ``ethnicity map'', presuming that one exists but I'd surmise that an Hispanic format or black format would be efficient on this facility.

I believe such a deal had been proposed before. KDBN would have gone to 101.1, KRNB to 93.3 and WRR to 105.7. KKDA 730 would have picked up the Dallas City Council meetings as part of the deal, too. However, the City of Dallas nixed that idea.

 

[TexasTom]

I believe such a deal had been proposed before. KDBN would have gone to 101.1, KRNB to 93.3 and WRR to 105.7. KKDA 730 would have picked up the Dallas City Council meetings as part of the deal, too. However, the City of Dallas nixed that idea.

And the City of Dallas was right to do so -- 105.7 places a poor signal over much of Dallas, and places a city grade contour over almost none of the city. I think that Dallas residents would have reason to be upset over their city running a station that is best received in the northwest suburbs and that comes in poorly in much of the city.

 

[davideduardo]

If David Eduardo is lurking about... in theory, would a swap between KESS and KDBN serve either station any better in terms of reaching the target audiences in hot zips with the present formats on each?

In markets like Houston, LA, Dallas, Miami, etc., where the Hispanic population is approaching 30% or more, there are Hispanics in nearly every area, so an Hispanic station would benefit from the fullest signal possible. Neither of the two signals is optimum, but the KESS one is bigger... thus more likely to catch a large percentage of the widely distributed Hispanic population.