KDDS has applied for four on-channel boosters. The one for Seattle is proposed for the KAAR tower. Scan down to page five for a map showing all four: https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101689521&qnum=5120©num=1&exhcnum=1
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KDDS Boosters
- Thread starter semoochie
- Start date
Looks like GTP has another leasee and one that does not need a ground system like an AM station. But I would not trust their engineering. KARR never broadcast from that tower location. That is the shared site for KBLE 1050 and KKDZ 1250. Not KARR 1460. Would almost make me think this is a joke.
With a mistake like that I'm glad it's not my signature on that piece of paper. Wonder what other mistakes they made. Now granted it does not matter in the actual application for the boosters but it makes one wonder just how alert MR Bertram S Goldman is. And if they allow a mistake like that, what other things does Bertram S Goldman let slide. By signing this paper MR Goldman admits he knows nothing about the actual tenants at the site. If I were KBLE I would bring this to their attention so that, as it states, they will measure the right station base impedance after the Isocoupler install.
Would the FCC kick it back with a glaring error like that. They even say KARR 1460. Wrong station and frequency.
With a mistake like that I'm glad it's not my signature on that piece of paper. Wonder what other mistakes they made. Now granted it does not matter in the actual application for the boosters but it makes one wonder just how alert MR Bertram S Goldman is. And if they allow a mistake like that, what other things does Bertram S Goldman let slide. By signing this paper MR Goldman admits he knows nothing about the actual tenants at the site. If I were KBLE I would bring this to their attention so that, as it states, they will measure the right station base impedance after the Isocoupler install.
Would the FCC kick it back with a glaring error like that. They even say KARR 1460. Wrong station and frequency.
Boosters usually only work well if a large area of the main signal is obstructed, like San Francisco's East Bay. I was wondering how this would work up here. Also, since the 60 dbu contours of the various boosters seem to pretty well line, up, won't they tend to interfere with each other as well as the main signal? On the other hand, if this actually works, they could really be a competitive Seattle signal and might inspire the other Capitol Peak and South Mountain stations to do the same.
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Radio-X
Guest
I can say from experience, KDDS starts to get pretty dicey reception-wise once you get on the east side of I-5. It's not as bad as the East Bay area in terms of terrain shielding, but it is not even the better of the peninsula rimshots in terms of coverage. If the booster system works well, I predict at least one or two of the other rimshots will probably follow suit as semoochie said.
That being said, the FCC should approve this application snippity-snap. As long as you pay the application fee and the engineering studies don't show any issues, this will be rubber-stamped OK. I have seen countless applications approved with far worse errors than this.
Radio-X
That being said, the FCC should approve this application snippity-snap. As long as you pay the application fee and the engineering studies don't show any issues, this will be rubber-stamped OK. I have seen countless applications approved with far worse errors than this.
Radio-X
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Radio-X
Guest
Very true, sir.
Actually, you can do something like screw with the TOH ID for years...FCC couldn't care less anymore. Noticed this today listening to KOMO-AM/FM:
"Komo Seatlle, K-O-M-O-F-M Oakville". Pretty sure this is the same ID I've heard for at least 2 years! Not legal...
Back in the days when the FCC had some teeth, somebody at Sinclair woulda gotten the message by now.
As I can tell, the quality of applications started going down the toilet with the "translator invasion" of 2003. Some of those applications were approved with non-existant facilities (one translator in my hometown was "owned" by one of the major religious broadcasters. They sold just the permit to the owners of an AM radio station who have not bothered to do any paperwork to change the facilities or licensee...which according to the FCC is located in the Playland of the town's McDonald's!)
What I'm most shocked by is not the illegal transfer of control, but that some overworked staff engineer looked at this application, said "yes, a McDonald's playground is an acceptable location for a translator on a 65m tower" and approved it lickity-split.
Radio-X
Actually, you can do something like screw with the TOH ID for years...FCC couldn't care less anymore. Noticed this today listening to KOMO-AM/FM:
"Komo Seatlle, K-O-M-O-F-M Oakville". Pretty sure this is the same ID I've heard for at least 2 years! Not legal...
Back in the days when the FCC had some teeth, somebody at Sinclair woulda gotten the message by now.
As I can tell, the quality of applications started going down the toilet with the "translator invasion" of 2003. Some of those applications were approved with non-existant facilities (one translator in my hometown was "owned" by one of the major religious broadcasters. They sold just the permit to the owners of an AM radio station who have not bothered to do any paperwork to change the facilities or licensee...which according to the FCC is located in the Playland of the town's McDonald's!)
What I'm most shocked by is not the illegal transfer of control, but that some overworked staff engineer looked at this application, said "yes, a McDonald's playground is an acceptable location for a translator on a 65m tower" and approved it lickity-split.
Radio-X
How is this illegal? Because they don't spell out KOMO? Big whoop. It's calls and city of license for each station. Actually, KIRO-FM is the one with the illegal ID by putting the frequency between the calls and COL.
Actually that's allowed. From 73.1201 (b) Content: "The transmitting station may insert between its call letters and its community of license the following information: the frequency of the transmitting station, the channel number of the transmitting station, the name of the licensee of the transmitting station and the licensee providing the programming, and/or the name of the network of either station. Where a multicast station is carrying the programming of another station and is identifying that station as the source of the programming, using the format described above, the identification may not include the frequency or channel number of the program source. A radio station operating in DAB hybrid mode or extended hybrid mode shall identify its digital signal, including any free multicast audio programming streams, in a manner that appropriately alerts its audience to the fact that it is listening to a digital audio broadcast. No other insertion between the station's call letters and the community or communities specified in its license is permissible.
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Radio-X
Guest
It is illegal. That cannot be argued. Komo (pronounced as their namesake) is NOT their call sign. Their call sign are the letters spelled out...just as a vanity ham call must be spelled out. A great example is KAFE in Bellingham. Their call sign is not "Kafe Bellingham". Kafe might be what Saga calls the station on-air, but for all intents and purposes, the station is referred to by the FCC as K-A-F-E. They are required to say at the very least once per hour "K-A-F-E Bellingham". Otherwise, they could call themselves "Kafe", "Cafe", "Lite Rock 104.1", or even "Jimbo's truck stop/liquor store/polka record outlet/diner/fireworks stand/and radio station off of I-5 exit 256...here in beautiful Bellingham!"
That being said, "big whoop" is right. That TOH ID for KOMO-AM has been on there for a couple of years before the FCC field office here closed. Considering what we are talking about in terms of the FCC not giving a damn anymore (so long as: you don't talk dirty during safe hours, tower lights work, public file is in order, and you pay your filing fees to them reasonably quickly), we can definitely say this is something that would have put Sinclair on notice by the Feds 20-30 years ago. Now, as long as you're going through the motions, as we've seen countless times in applications and in practice, they just don't care about the final product.
Having a laissez-faire attitude at the FCC since the mid-90's is a blessing and a curse. I think we can all agree it has permitted a much larger and diverse (not cultural diversity, technological diversity) use of the broadcast spectrum in its care over the last 10 years (whether that's good or not is up to you). On the flip side, you see sloppiness and blatant rule violations that you'd never see in...let's say B.C. where the anal-retentive CRTC will pull your license over what would be considered "small potatoes" here. Yes, I know CTRC regulates content, but I'm not talking about that part. Talking about following the prescribed rules to the letter. The CTRC rarely turns a blind eye to a violation of their rules no matter how small.
Radio-X
I don't know what you're hearing, but I'm hearing KOMO Seattle, KOMO-FM Oakville at the TOH FCC required ID. Sounds legal to me.
What they plan on doing isn't cheap but if they do it right it will make the signal much better in the areas within the contours of the boosters. Years ago boosters couldn't really coexist like this without causing issues with each other. Improvements in technology makes syncing them together much easier. Hopefully they get it approved and built soon so I can take a trip up to Seattle and check it out.
When it comes to on-channel boosters, "doing it right" is a subjective statement. Successful use of these things is predicated on the initial proper design where the signal overlap areas are either over landmass or water where listeners don't exist or you don't care about. (like that ever happens) Also one needs a situation where significant physical terrain shielding exists at proper distances between the area which the booster serves, and the primary transmission coverage. Synchronizing and locking the transmitter oscillators using 10Mhz GPS is simple that's true. Delaying the audio between the transmitters is simple. True also. Compensating for propagation delay to a receiver (aka listener) in the overlap zone? Impossible, because there are too many variables to account for. This isn't a technology issue that can be solved, but rather physics.
Honestly? When it comes to on-channel boosters, the juice amount isn't worth the squeeze.
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KOMO-FM now has an in-channel booster in Tukwila (the one in Tumwater seems to be gone). Tune to 97.7 and drive around Southcenterland to see for yourself if it works.
Last time I checked, the South Center booster worked seamlessly with the main...very well executed.
According to Northwest Broadcasters, the FCC has granted the KDDS application as of 11/17/2015.
Thanks for schooling us, Captain Obvious.
I was just trying to help him avoid the middleman.
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