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KDYA 1190 Vallejo

M

MarioMania

I know they have to sign off because of KEX at night

But what's the reason??

I'm not a really big fan of KDYA, I'm just wondering why..I use to listen to KNBA alot
 
KEX operates on a "clear channel" (not to be confused with the company Clear Channel, which coincidentally owns KEX) of 1190 kHz. They are classified by the FCC as a Class A (1-B) station making them the dominant station on the frequency and able to operate full-time with up to 50 kw. KDYA is at the bottom of the FCC totem pole as a Class D station with the ability to only operate daytime, limited time, or unlimited time with a nighttime power less than 0.250 kW. They operate at 1 kW as a daytimer.

Hope that helps.
 
radio1015a said:
KEX operates on a "clear channel" (not to be confused with the company Clear Channel, which coincidentally owns KEX) of 1190 kHz. They are classified by the FCC as a Class A (1-B) station making them the dominant station on the frequency and able to operate full-time with up to 50 kw. KDYA is at the bottom of the FCC totem pole as a Class D station with the ability to only operate daytime, limited time, or unlimited time with a nighttime power less than 0.250 kW. They operate at 1 kW as a daytimer.
Click to expand...

The whole reason KDYA/KDIA was given a channel on the expanded AM band (1640 I think it is) was because they were supposed to abandon the daytime only channel and replace it with the fulltime expanded band channel. However, they (previous owner probably) cried poor and said that AM had gotten to unprofitable that they'd have to operate both stations.

By the way, for anyone wondering why KEX is dominant and KDYA is not, it's because KEX came on the air long before KDYA (aka KNBA, etc). The oldest station gets the best protection unless they make a significant change that makes them essentially a new station.
 
DavidKaye said:
By the way, for anyone wondering why KEX is dominant and KDYA is not, it's because KEX came on the air long before KDYA (aka KNBA, etc). The oldest station gets the best protection unless they make a significant change that makes them essentially a new station.
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It's WAY more complicated than that! Politics had a lot to do with who got the Class I assignments. Though political pull, 1190 became Westingouse's "own" channel with both KEX and WOWO (both owned by Westingouse) getting Class IB (subsequently, Class A) status on 1190. Of course, Westinghouse had other Class Is (WBZ, KYW, and KDKA, if I haven't forgotten any. WBZ and KDKA were IAs. KYW was a IB.)

I know of two examples where whose station was on the air first did not tell the whole story on which stations were granted what facilities on IB Channels. There may be other examples that I'm not aware of, however. On 710, KIRO was a IB (now a Class A) but it protects what was KMPC (now KSPN, a Class II; now a Class B) which predates it (or at least predates it on 710). On 1510 (which pre-NARBA was 1470) WLAC (a IB, now a Class A) protects what was WMEX Boston (now WWZN, a Class II; now a Class B). WMEX predated WLAC (or predated it on 1470).

IIRC, WOWO was one of the last stations to be granted IB status and was the first to give up Class A status. I believe that what is now KAAY (may have been KTHS at the time) was the very last station to become a IB. Sen Fulbright (D of AR) waged quite a campaign to get the station's class changed from II to IB.
 
In ancient history KEX used to share time with KOB in Albuquerque, I think on 1180kc. And now I think KEX is the only fulltime 50kw station on 1190, at long last a 50,000 watt clear channel station so to speak, WOWO having cut back to 7.9 kw (?) nighttime.
 
Lopaka said:
In ancient history KEX used to share time with KOB in Albuquerque, I think on 1180kc. And now I think KEX is the only fulltime 50kw station on 1190, at long last a 50,000 watt clear channel station so to speak, WOWO having cut back to 7.9 kw (?) nighttime.
Click to expand...

Along with several other station pairs (WTIC/WBAL was one. I think WBBM/KFAB may have been another), KOB/KEX also tried synchronous nighttime operation. I have to try to get more info on this noble experiment via a Web search. Back in the day (the day being the early '30s, I believe), the frequency stability of crystal oscillators was not measured in today's parts per billion. And while the unit of measure may have been the infinitesimal-sounding parts per million (ppm), from what I've heard, it was not in the single digits of ppm. Stations' actual frequency could drift around by integer numbers of kHz (known back then as kcps, which aren't call letters; kcps stood for kilocycles per second).

Somebody had the bright idea that, rather than build more stable crystal oscillators, it might be easier to synchronize the oscillator frequencies so that the stations drifted together. Just how this was accomplished, though, I'm not sure. I suspect that the carrier frequencies were divided down and fed into audio-frequency telephone lines. Then at the other end of the phone line, the frequency would be multiplied back up to its original value. The technique did not work very well and its use by station pairs that were separated from each other by long distances must have disappeared after a few years. The technology that landed the coup de grace was the AM directional antenna, which started to take off in North America around the mid 1930s. In the days of a relatively uncrowded AM band, DAs really did minimize interference between co-channel stations.

Synchronization of AM transmitters continues in use today at a few stations, the most notable being KKOB Albuquerque/Santa Fe (nighttime only) and WLLH Lowell/Lawrence MA (full time). Note, however, that these station pairs are not widely separated geographically (~80 miles between Albuquerque and Santa Fe and about 10 miles between Lowell and Lawrence). Also, with the widespread deployment of GPS, synchronization of carrier frequencies has become a lot easier and artifacts such as phase drifts between the synchronized carriers have become easier to control.

Anyhow, WOWO's night power is 9.8 kW. Its DA pattern, which had been an east-facing modified cardioid, was changed to more or less a north-south figure eight. So the CoL, Fort Wayne, instead of getting a huge nighttime signal from the transmitter site which is well west of Fort Wayne, now gets just barely more than the 5 mV/m minimum. Surprisingly, though, WOWO's skywave to the east remains potent--enough to give co-channel stations to the east of Fort Wayne (WAGE, for example, which holds a CP to move from 1200 to 1190) pretty high NIFs. WAGE's will be well into the 20s. And WLIB's itself is in the 20s, which, even with 30 kW-N is not sufficient to provide night service to 100% of the population of New York City's five boroughs. But remember that New York's land area exceeds 400 square miles.
 
DanStrassberg said:
It's WAY more complicated than that! Politics had a lot to do with who got the Class I assignments.
Click to expand...

Even so, grandfathering applies for the most part, with some few exceptions.
 
Just a question

If someone buys AM1190 and go night time

1. Can they reduce like 1,000 watts to 100 watts??

2. Can they move to 1200 to broadcast 24 hrs a day at 1,000 watts??
 
MarioMania said:
Just a question

If someone buys AM1190 and go night time

1. Can they reduce like 1,000 watts to 100 watts??

2. Can they move to 1200 to broadcast 24 hrs a day at 1,000 watts??
Click to expand...

If someone could do it they would have done it. About the only thing that can be done is to buy the other stations on the frequency and reduce their power or shut them down. This has happened many times. KPAY 1060 in Chico was bought and shut down to allow KTCT (aka "KNBR") 1050 to increase coverage. Likewise, KGA 1510 in Spokane has been reduced (power? pattern?) to allow co-owned KPIG(AM) to improve its SF--uh, Piedmont-- coverage.
 
DavidKaye said:
If someone could do it they would have done it. About the only thing that can be done is to buy the other stations on the frequency and reduce their power or shut them down. This has happened many times. KPAY 1060 in Chico was bought and shut down to allow KTCT (aka "KNBR") 1050 to increase coverage. Likewise, KGA 1510 in Spokane has been reduced (power? pattern?) to allow co-owned KPIG(AM) to improve its SF--uh, Piedmont-- coverage.
Click to expand...

Nevertheless, if the Class D AM (KDYA, in this case) that is co-channel with the Class A AM (KEX) has its transmitter site outside of the Class A's 0.5 mV/m 50% skywave contour, it is theoretically (though rarely economically) feasible for the Class D to either a) operate nondirectionally at night with very low night power or b) operate directionally at night with somewhat more power. Note that, in the case of WOWO, the first Class A to power down at night for the benefit of a co-channel station, WLIB had been a daytimer, which signed off at Fort Wayne sunset and, after WOWO powered down, it became a true Class B running 30 kW at night and having an NIF contour that covers 80% of the CoL (New York City).

KPIG was already operating at night but with only 230W, but I think it remained a Class D because, until KGA powered down at night and relinquished its Class A status, it (KPIG) could not protect KGA adequately while covering its CoL sufficiently at night to achieve Class B status.

I believe (but do not know for a fact) that KDYA could not operate at all at night because I believe that Vallejo lies within KEX's 0.5 mV/m 50% skywave contour. If KDYA lies outside KEX's protected skywave contour, its CP night array might well be adaptable to KDYA's operating full-time, though probably only with power of less than 250W equivalent, which would keep it a Class D and probably would not provide a usable signal in much if any of Vallejo. Even at that low power, the main lobe of KDYA's night pattern would have to point to the southeast, whereas the main lobe if the day pattern points to the northeast. Hence protecting stations to the southeast of Vallejo (if any) could become a problem if nighttime use of the day array were attempted.
 
Last time I looked (when I worked at KNBA some 30-odd years ago) the KEX 0.5 mv/m contour went out to sea somewhere south of the Monterey peninsula. Which is why the 1190 in Anaheim has significant nighttime power (being outside of the contour). It's not possible to get nighttime service on 1190 in the Bay Area unless KEX reduces it's night coverage in this direction.
 
If 1190 Vallejo went to higher power such as 5KW, they would have to be directional to at least protect 1170 KLOK San Jose and probably protect 1200 KYAA in Soquel. KNBA went to 1000 watts when KLOK upped to 50KW. I worked at KNBA in 1966-67 when it was 250 watts and that station had an unbelievable signal. Far better that it is today at 1000 watts. Most likely a deteriorating antenna ground system. It was said at the time that KNBA had one of the best (possibly the best) coverage of any 250 watt station in the country.

A lot has been said over the years about Lou Ripa, the owner of KNBA. I owe everything I have to Lou Ripa and found him a straight shooter and a good friend. I got my start there and have worked at some big stations over the years since then. Fortunately I saw Lou shortly before he passed away in 1992 and had a chance to thank him for hiring a somewhat brash 19 year old.
R.I.P Lou Ripa and "the Mighty 1190" KNBA.
 
KRLA said:
If 1190 Vallejo went to higher power such as 5KW, they would have to be directional to at least protect 1170 KLOK San Jose and probably protect 1200 KYAA in Soquel.
Click to expand...

KDYA appears to hold (or maybe now that should read have held) a CP for 3.5 kW-D from a four-tower array at a site 9.3 miles mostly west of the existing 1 kW ND site. The main lobe of the rather complex pattern lies to the northeast. It looks as if that CP expired a little over a year ago, however--unless it was tolled.
 
It's been resubmitted at 3 Kw. KLOK is protected in Marin County - at 3.5 Kw the DA had a tip of one of the back lobes that exceeded the 1 Kw ND contour, creating new interference to KLOK. Dropping the power to 3 Kw contains the new pattern inside the original, so no new interference is created.

KRLA - allow me to second your opinion of Lou Ripa as a good guy and straight shooter. He gave me my first job while I was still in high school and always treated me well. In fact, he was honest enough to pull me aside one day to say I was welcome to continue working there as long as I wanted, but in his opinion I didn't have the chops to succeed as a disk jockey. That was the best advice I ever received, and led to my 30+ year career in engineering.

R.I.P., Lou.
 
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