KEARTH 101 (it's only 80's if we say so)

[davideduardo]

Sometimes, we research ourselves right into oblivion. In the words of one famous L.A. programmer, "We generally do most research by attempting to validate what we've already decided to do."

I disagree. We research today a lot less than in the period from the 70's through about 2005; the reason is the economy and the higher than ever costs of custom research.

Research today is mostly music testing, as the "annual perceptual" is pretty much a thing of the past. And music research is used to filter out songs that no longer work and to add songs that may now be eligible for play. In other words, we are not trying to validate anything as the kind of research most commonly done for gold based formats is simply intended to find out which of the hits of the past are still hits and, thus, playable today.

Perceptual research is now done mostly when problems are detected, a new competitor comes on, or as part of a format search that will also include an ATU component as well.

 

[oldies76]

... but they are within the ~300 (out of a total in the low 600s)

Steve has already pointed out to us that KRTH does not play over 600 songs. His lists of songs do not add up to that amount. He has accurate records on their playlists on a monthly basis. The playlists add up to a couple hundred titles, if that. He has been keeping track of their lists since the 1990's, which I find to be accurate and true.

Obviously, songs that are played once a month (or once a year) are not included in his lists.

The last time this station ever had more than 600 titles in active rotation was during Jhani Kaye and before Jay Coffey.

 

[davideduardo]

Steve has already pointed out to us that KRTH does not play over 600 songs. His lists of songs do not add up to that amount.

Correct. They play over 700 songs.

He has accurate records on their playlists on a monthly basis. The playlists add up to a couple hundred titles, if that.

Sorry, my multi-week BDS report just gave me 702 different titles.

He has been keeping track of their lists since the 1990's, which I find to be accurate and true.

In this case, neither accurate nor true.

Obviously, songs that are played once a month (or once a year) are not included in his lists.

But there are hundreds of songs that have very light rotations. They are part of the format.

You have to decide what you want. When it's a station you like, "oh, wow" songs are great. When you are criticising one of the LA market's leading stations, it's not so good. So for you, KRTH is "damned if they do and damned if they don't". That's amazingly hypocritical.

The last time this station ever had more than 600 titles in active rotation was during Jhani Kaye and before Jay Coffey.

Actually, the "last time" was today!

 

[oldies76]

When it's a station you like, "oh, wow" songs are great. When you are criticising one of the LA market's leading stations, it's not so good. So for you, KRTH is "damned if they do and damned if they don't".

You were the one who said "Oh Wow's" and weekend lost songs and specials are not part of the counts, so which is it? Steve lists contain all the songs and it's not close to 700, at all. His lists match song for song the daily media base playlists shown on their website.

Oh btw, KRTH does not even play "Oh Wow's" or have specials anymore, so why are you bringing that up?

 

[K.M. Richards]

Steve has already pointed out to us that KRTH does not play over 600 songs. His lists of songs do not add up to that amount. He has accurate records on their playlists on a monthly basis.

His lists are not accurate. He misses a lot of songs which play only once or twice a week.

David and I use BDS for our answers to your questions. My statement, which you challenge on the basis of an amateur's list of songs, was based on this industry-standard source (which is also used with current-based stations, to compile the Billboard airplay statistics).

Sticking with the exact report I used to answer the original question (which was for the week that ended August 6):
There were 695 songs listed. Of those, 263 played once (and some of the previous weeks, did not play at all).
57 played twice and 31 played three times that week.
47 played 4x, 23 played 5x, 11 played 6x. It is only at that point where we get into songs that presumably played once per day.
49 played between seven and fourteen times that week (presumably twice a day).

That leaves 215 songs (out of just under 700) that played between fifteen and 183 times in that week. Of those, all but 22 got 80 plays or less, all but 66 got 50 plays or less, all but 93 got 45 or less, all but 169 got 30 or less.

Those are accurate numbers. Steve's are not. I will expect you not to quote him as a source in the future. ¿Comprendé?

 

[K.M. Richards]

Steve lists contain all the songs and it's not close to 700, at all. His lists match song for song the daily media base playlists shown on their website.

A discrepancy between BDS and Steve's "meticulously prepared" lists using the KRTH website which is as wide as that proves that the website is missing some of the songs. I should point out that the website is not using Mediabase, it is using something apparently provided by iTunes, and I'm guessing that the playlist on the website omits anything Apple can't sell a download of.

I must also point out that you are reverting to posting behaviors that you publicly promised not to anymore.

 

[TheBigA]

The bottom line here though is not how many songs they play. Nobody but a handful of complainers are keeping track.

The key thing is that what they're doing is working. It's a huge success. Playing any more songs wouldn't get them better ratings, and that's all that really matters.

 

[davideduardo]

You were the one who said "Oh Wow's" and weekend lost songs and specials are not part of the counts, so which is it? Steve lists contain all the songs and it's not close to 700, at all. His lists match song for song the daily media base playlists shown on their website.

His lists are not even close to reality. The only reality is MediaBase (not what appears on the KRTH site) or BDS. Not a listener's list.

Oh btw, KRTH does not even play "Oh Wow's" or have specials anymore, so why are you bringing that up?

Any song that seldom plays is generally thought of as an "Oh wow!" song. As in "oh, wow, I have not heard that song for a long time". Given the average listening span of a station P1, we assume that a song that is on a roughly lunar rotation will be heard by any given listener perhaps once every couple of years. That is "oh, wow".

And, in any case, BigA's response is better than any of mine. KRTH as it is works. It has increased ratings in 25-54 and has increased billings. It's one of America's most successful radio stations and a fantastic turn-around. End of story.

 

[oldies76]

It's one of America's most successful radio stations.

Success in longevity, I'll give you that.

 

[K.M. Richards]

It's one of America's most successful radio stations and a fantastic turn-around. End of story.

Success in longevity, I'll give you that.

Success in ratings. Success in billing. Success in everything ... except what you want it to be.

 

[davideduardo]

Success in longevity, I'll give you that.

That success was in very great danger until Rick Thomas turned things around. This new generation of KRTH is both a heritage station as well as a new incarnation of it's concept.

 

[MarioMania]

I wonder why no one likes Debbie Gibson and Tiffany

 

[chrocket87]

It's pretty sad that KRTH's playlist has become one of those divisive topics along the lines of abortion or police brutality.....

 

[TheBigA]

It's pretty sad that KRTH's playlist has become one of those divisive topics along the lines of abortion or police brutality.....

Only among a very small group of people. The vast majority simply listen and enjoy.

Which is why the station consistently ranks among the most listened-to stations in LA. No argument there.

 

[frankberry]

The nearly-continuous circular arguments about KRTH are going to end.
Those involved will please agree to disagree.
Thank you.

 

[CTListener]

It's pretty sad that KRTH's playlist has become one of those divisive topics along the lines of abortion or police brutality.....

It's more like climate change. People on the inside laying out the way things are and providing empirical evidence, people on the outside questioning the insiders' motivation and truthfulness and surrounding themselves with like-minded people to reinforce the belief that what they see and hear isn't what it appears to be.

Ratings say KRTH is popular? Question the reliability of the PPM system, or question the reliability of polling only a small fraction of the audience. Research shows people prefer songs they know and love repeated daily? Rebut that with "I don't know anyone who can stand listening to (Brown Eyed Girl/Hotel California/I Melt With You) anymore," as if the people you know are a random set.

You're right, Frank, it's time to let this one go.

 

[K.M. Richards]

For the record, I can agree -- and have in the past agreed -- to disagree if the person(s) I disagree with refrain from restarting the circular arguments.

That has been the problem all along.

The nearly-continuous circular arguments about KRTH are going to end.
Those involved will please agree to disagree.
Thank you.

And thank you to CTListener for summarizing the circular argument situation so succinctly in post #224.

 

[AM FM listener]

I heard an interesting argument regarding recent stories about alleged police brutality that I think (loosely) applies here. Suspects sometimes behave badly and do not follow instructions when approached by police. But, the police are the trained professionals and have all the power is such situations. So, the onus is on the police to react professionally, despite how difficult that can be at times. "With great power comes great responsibility." ~Spiderman's Uncle Ben

I suggest the professionals on these boards do the same when the usual suspects here behave badly. Please do not feel compelled to rebut every little comment your suspects make just to prove you are correct. We know who is correct and who is not. I know that most of the time, your replies are factual but sometime they are personal. The pros have all the power on these boards. Please hold yourselves up to a higher standard than the rest of us. You just might see the usual suspects behave accordingly.