Keep Antenna TV Free, Hello?

[darklife]

I am surprised no one has talked about this here yet.
Watch this commercial that is currently being aired on TV..
http://www.clickorlando.com/video/22037130/index.html

Basically talks about the FCC taking back the TV broadcast spectrum so that
it can be used for more wireless devices like cellphones and crap.
As we all know there is plenty of spectrum for WIFI devices and no one is really
hurting for more bandwidth so I smell something fishy here.

Well if it does happen then what happens to free OTA TV as we know it? Just
up an vanishes? Also who is to say they will stop at that and not the FM radio
band while they are at it?
Sounds far fetched all in all but this stupid TV commercial keeps playing on all
the local stations here so I figured I would share.
Imagine all the angry people who just got DTV boxes (which most of them
didn't even want to do) when they find out free TV vanishes all together.

Some idiot was just on our local news station here talking about this saying that
free TV should be taken away because in his words "that's not how the economy
works, TV should cost like everything else". I felt like punching my television when
he said that. Isn't that what commercials are for? :

 

[azumanga]

Some idiot was just on our local news station here talking about this saying that
free TV should be taken away because in his words "that's not how the economy
works, TV should cost like everything else". I felt like punching my television when
he said that. Isn't that what commercials are for? :

That guy knows nothing about the broadcasting industry -- TV has been free ever since the day Felix the Cat made his first TV appearance in 1928, and it should stay that way. TV viewers should have a right to insist on just getting local channels from than antenna for free, rather than paying a lot of money for these channels and mostly tripe on the cable channels.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Lame PSA, not much beef to back it up. Stations probably just asked for something to fill time in the first quarter.

 

[powergate92]

Here's what the FCC has to say about this:
"FCC's Levin: Broadband Plans Don't Threaten Future Of Broadcasting"
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/ar...ans_Don_t_Threaten_Future_Of_Broadcasting.php

 

[dave73]

I came across this link yestersay, and will now share this one. I don't fully understand it, but it has me concerned about the remaining TV channels we still have. No one really seems to want to be on the VHF band anymore, while the UHF band might lose more channels in the future.

http://www.rcrwireless.com/apps/pbc...ant-tv-broadcasters-to-use-low-power-antennas

 

[KeithE4]

I came across this link yestersay, and will now share this one. I don't fully understand it, but it has me concerned about the remaining TV channels we still have. No one really seems to want to be on the VHF band anymore, while the UHF band might lose more channels in the future.

http://www.rcrwireless.com/apps/pbc...ant-tv-broadcasters-to-use-low-power-antennas

Actually, this makes a lot of sense. Why operate a megawatt UHF transmitter from the top of a mountain, tall building, or tower when running 5, 10, or even 100 low-powered - 1-10 kW ERP - transmitters at moderate height (say, from a 10-story office building or an AM or Class A FM tower), each covering a 20-mile radius or so, would probably be cheaper in the long run.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

If television shouldn't be free, radio shouldn't be either!
This is all very silly.

Television has been around forever though.
Is there a way to get internet for free?

New things change things.

( On second thought, I don't think I want to know about free internet--Like snow to the television with no cable, internet for free must be rather slow... ??? )

 

[KeithE4]

If television shouldn't be free, radio shouldn't be either!
This is all very silly.

People are willing to pay for television. They aren't willing to pay for radio (otherwise, Sirius/XM would be profitable by now). That's the difference - the market has made the decision. Eight out of 10 people (I guess that includes those 4 out of 5 doctors ;D ) pay for cable or satellite TV. Maybe 5 out of 100, if that, pays for satellite radio.

 

[nd2023]

If television shouldn't be free, radio shouldn't be either!
This is all very silly.

Television has been around forever though.
Is there a way to get internet for free?

New things change things.

( On second thought, I don't think I want to know about free internet--Like snow to the television with no cable, internet for free must be rather slow... ??? )

With digital TV, there's no snow anymore. And you can get free internet at many places.

 

[sandiegoinexile]

The Black Helicopters Are Coming !! Death Panels !! Obama is a Kenyan Muslim !! Government Czars Will Make Us Socialist !! Tap Water Has Flouride !!

It's no wonder Faux News and Talk Radio are flourishing, although primarily with male caucasians over 35.

On a more serious note, is there really any need for more than, say 3-4 OTA broadcast stations in any market? Especially if the broadcasters would actually USE the subchannels rather than merely sending out a repetitive weather loop, endless infomercials, or 1980s B-level movies. 3-4 stations means, what, 12-20 subchannels -- a heckuva lot more than when I grew up in the 1970s.

Technology is changing so fast that there are bound to be hiccups. And evolution. Auctioning off a spectrum or two doesn't mean the death of OTA. OTA is more likely to kill itself.

 

[azumanga]

With digital TV, there's no snow anymore.

However, you either get the signal, or you don't. There are some who now have a lower selection of TV channels now than when the stations were in analog. Also, the picture quality varies from channel-to-channel -- some indeed have a crystal-clear picture, while some look more like an overblown JPEG.

 

[dave73]

The Black Helicopters Are Coming !! Death Panels !! Obama is a Kenyan Muslim !! Government Czars Will Make Us Socialist !! Tap Water Has Flouride !!

It's no wonder Faux News and Talk Radio are flourishing, although primarily with male caucasians over 35.

On a more serious note, is there really any need for more than, say 3-4 OTA broadcast stations in any market? Especially if the broadcasters would actually USE the subchannels rather than merely sending out a repetitive weather loop, endless infomercials, or 1980s B-level movies. 3-4 stations means, what, 12-20 subchannels -- a heckuva lot more than when I grew up in the 1970s.

Technology is changing so fast that there are bound to be hiccups. And evolution. Auctioning off a spectrum or two doesn't mean the death of OTA. OTA is more likely to kill itself.

You wanna see only 3 or 4 channels assigned to each market? There are markets where there are only 3 or 4. South Bend has only 5 channels assigned to their market, and Fort Wayne with 6. Lafayette Indiana only has 1 station in their market. Having that many channels would actually limit choice, and not have choice, even if there are subchannels.

In the Chicago market, most stations are already airing programming on their subchannels. In Chicago, CBS, Fox, My Network, Telefutura, Univision, & Telemundo don't have additional programming on a subchannel. Telemundo simulcasts the main channel in SD, which is a waste. I don't know if Telefutura & Univision plan to add subchannels in the future. Both stations are now setup for HD, but haven't aired any HD programming yet. They used to simulcast each others' channels on each station. WTTW programs 11.2 with 24 hour primetime programming. Reducing the number of channels, and to make a station carry additional channels would reduce the HD picture on the main channel, or not have an HD picture at all. Since most people have HDTV, they're not gonna want to give up HDTV. I would like to not see any new channels in the largest markets, but I would like to see some new allocations for some of the smaller markets. WJYS & WCPX air a lot of infomercials, and are a waste of TV channels, though WCPX isn't a complete waste, as they have Ion Life, which has programming, and Qubo, a 24 hour childrens cartoon channel.

 

[TexasTom]

On a more serious note, is there really any need for more than, say 3-4 OTA broadcast stations in any market? Especially if the broadcasters would actually USE the subchannels rather than merely sending out a repetitive weather loop, endless infomercials, or 1980s B-level movies. 3-4 stations means, what, 12-20 subchannels -- a heckuva lot more than when I grew up in the 1970s.

Technology is changing so fast that there are bound to be hiccups. And evolution. Auctioning off a spectrum or two doesn't mean the death of OTA. OTA is more likely to kill itself.

You're completely wrong -- I'm guessing from this that you probably aren't an OTA viewer. 3-4 OTA channels per market would kill OTA HDTV. And remember, there are some of us who have been watching HDTV from our OTA broadcasters long before y'all were getting it on cable or satellite...I, for one, don't care to give up that service.

As for the subchannels -- considering that they're just starting out, I think we need to give it a few years to see what the offerings will eventually be. But there is some stuff today that is of interest to at least some viewers -- those old movies aren't much different from what shows up on a bunch of cable channels, after all.

 

[dave73]

On a more serious note, is there really any need for more than, say 3-4 OTA broadcast stations in any market? Especially if the broadcasters would actually USE the subchannels rather than merely sending out a repetitive weather loop, endless infomercials, or 1980s B-level movies. 3-4 stations means, what, 12-20 subchannels -- a heckuva lot more than when I grew up in the 1970s.

Technology is changing so fast that there are bound to be hiccups. And evolution. Auctioning off a spectrum or two doesn't mean the death of OTA. OTA is more likely to kill itself.

You're completely wrong -- I'm guessing from this that you probably aren't an OTA viewer. 3-4 OTA channels per market would kill OTA HDTV. And remember, there are some of us who have been watching HDTV from our OTA broadcasters long before y'all were getting it on cable or satellite...I, for one, don't care to give up that service.

As for the subchannels -- considering that they're just starting out, I think we need to give it a few years to see what the offerings will eventually be. But there is some stuff today that is of interest to at least some viewers -- those old movies aren't much different from what shows up on a bunch of cable channels, after all.

I just hope that the technology improves to have larger bandwidth than what's available now. As it stands, a station that wants to have subchannels can only run 1, maybe 2 HD channels, and any remaining bandwidth would allow an SD channel. A station that's in 1080i might be lucky if they can run 1 or 2 SD channels. WLS-TV, and a few other ABC O & O stations are running their ABC station & Livewell HD each in 720p, and have AccuWeather in SD. WTTW tried to run a 1080i main channel, and 3 SD subchannels, but I believe there wasn't enough bandwidth to allow it. I used to have lots of problems with the picture on WTTW and subchannels. According to their website, they did make upgrades, and the main channel is now 720p. Seems to have solved most of their problems. However, on WTTW's own website message forum, people now complain that they're no longer in 1080i, along with not having WTTW-Prime in HD. To run both WTTW & WTTW Prime would require 720p, and maybe 1 SD channel. That would result in eliminating Create or V-Me if they did put WTTW Prime in HD as well. So far, WYCC doesn't show any interest in eliminating their simulcast of the main channel on 20.2, and I don't see them wanting to pickup any of the 2 subchannels WTTW carries, if WTTW did try to run a second HD channel.

 

[BRNout]

You wanna see only 3 or 4 channels assigned to each market? There are markets where there are only 3 or 4. South Bend has only 5 channels assigned to their market, and Fort Wayne with 6. Lafayette Indiana only has 1 station in their market. Having that many channels would actually limit choice, and not have choice, even if there are subchannels.

In the Chicago market, most stations are already airing programming on their subchannels. In Chicago, CBS, Fox, My Network, Telefutura, Univision, & Telemundo don't have additional programming on a subchannel. Telemundo simulcasts the main channel in SD, which is a waste. I don't know if Telefutura & Univision plan to add subchannels in the future. Both stations are now setup for HD, but haven't aired any HD programming yet. They used to simulcast each others' channels on each station. WTTW programs 11.2 with 24 hour primetime programming. Reducing the number of channels, and to make a station carry additional channels would reduce the HD picture on the main channel, or not have an HD picture at all. Since most people have HDTV, they're not gonna want to give up HDTV. I would like to not see any new channels in the largest markets, but I would like to see some new allocations for some of the smaller markets. WJYS & WCPX air a lot of infomercials, and are a waste of TV channels, though WCPX isn't a complete waste, as they have Ion Life, which has programming, and Qubo, a 24 hour childrens cartoon channel.

Hey Dave, you forget the best use of subchannels in the entire Chicago market: WCIU! Offering up MeTV, MeToo, This and the ethnic FBC, Weigel Broadcasting makes amazing use of the station's digital subs.

I might add that my non-scientific survey of local viewers would indicate that MeTV and MeToo are likely to be two of the most viewed subchannels anywhere in the US. Can't tell you how many barber shops, restaurants and other business I've gone into with one of those two channels tuned in.

Even a visit to the Dep't of Homeland Security earlier this week (for work) revealed the TV to be tuned in to Starsky and Hutch on MeToo. Had to laugh at that one!! ;D ;D

 

[dave73]

You wanna see only 3 or 4 channels assigned to each market? There are markets where there are only 3 or 4. South Bend has only 5 channels assigned to their market, and Fort Wayne with 6. Lafayette Indiana only has 1 station in their market. Having that many channels would actually limit choice, and not have choice, even if there are subchannels.

In the Chicago market, most stations are already airing programming on their subchannels. In Chicago, CBS, Fox, My Network, Telefutura, Univision, & Telemundo don't have additional programming on a subchannel. Telemundo simulcasts the main channel in SD, which is a waste. I don't know if Telefutura & Univision plan to add subchannels in the future. Both stations are now setup for HD, but haven't aired any HD programming yet. They used to simulcast each others' channels on each station. WTTW programs 11.2 with 24 hour primetime programming. Reducing the number of channels, and to make a station carry additional channels would reduce the HD picture on the main channel, or not have an HD picture at all. Since most people have HDTV, they're not gonna want to give up HDTV. I would like to not see any new channels in the largest markets, but I would like to see some new allocations for some of the smaller markets. WJYS & WCPX air a lot of infomercials, and are a waste of TV channels, though WCPX isn't a complete waste, as they have Ion Life, which has programming, and Qubo, a 24 hour childrens cartoon channel.

Hey Dave, you forget the best use of subchannels in the entire Chicago market: WCIU! Offering up MeTV, MeToo, This and the ethnic FBC, Weigel Broadcasting makes amazing use of the station's digital subs.

I might add that my non-scientific survey of local viewers would indicate that MeTV and MeToo are likely to be two of the most viewed subchannels anywhere in the US. Can't tell you how many barber shops, restaurants and other business I've gone into with one of those two channels tuned in.

Even a visit to the Dep't of Homeland Security earlier this week (for work) revealed the TV to be tuned in to Starsky and Hutch on MeToo. Had to laugh at that one!! ;D ;D

WCIU does make good use of their subchannels. Weigel hasn't abandoned their original programming that they now call FBT, but they've moved it around a total of 3 times. I've seen MeTV & MeToo on at many places too. Weigel puts TV Land & Nick at Nite to shame. Weigel was smart to even have MeTV on in Milwaukee too. If they're smart, they could create MeToo on MeTV's subchannel, since MeTV is on a full power market signal in Milwaukee, unlike Chicago, where it's not on their own full market signals. So for the whole market to get MeTV & MeToo, WCIU had to put them on the subchannels.

I however wish that they wouldn't have MeTV & MeToo mapped twice. The 26.2 is also mapped to 23.1 & 26.3 also being mapped to 48.1. In my opinion, if they wanna map any channel to 23.1 & 48.1, then Weigel should just map MeTV's WWME-LD signal to 23.1 & not 23.2, and get WMEU running on digital, and map that to 48.1, and not a possibility that it might be mapped to 48.2 in the future. That way, I can enter 27.1, and it would go to 26.1.

 

[vchimpanzee]

With digital TV, there's no snow anymore.

However, you either get the signal, or you don't. There are some who now have a lower selection of TV channels now than when the stations were in analog. Also, the picture quality varies from channel-to-channel -- some indeed have a crystal-clear picture, while some look more like an overblown JPEG.

And even if you get the station, you can lose the sound and get a lot of squares or stripes in your picture from such things as wind, rain or a car passing by, or you walking in front of the set.

That's with antennas that weren't free. A better antenna would cost much more. No, it's not free. Cable is cheaper, for now.

And on the stations that are working, some shows still look like the movie "Polar Express".

 

[azumanga]

And even if you get the station, you can lose the sound and get a lot of squares or stripes in your picture from such things as wind, rain or a car passing by, or you walking in front of the set.

That's with antennas that weren't free. A better antenna would cost much more. No, it's not free. Cable is cheaper, for now.

At least if you buy a better antenna, you only pay once. Cable bills add up month per month.

 

[ShawnHill1]

Here in L.A., we have a great variety of programming with our digital subs, but it depends on what you're into. KNBC, of course, has its weather and news service, and Universal Sports, which is OK I suppose. KABC has Live Well HD and its AccuWeather channel, with Eyewitness News cut-in between forecast (sometime, the news is a day old). KTLA carries This TV on its channel 5.2, but I've only seen bits and pieces of their programming. The Ion and TBN stations each have their standard lineup of subchannels. I guess the best of the bunch are the PBS stations...KCET has four (main in HD, V-me, an Orange County-centric channel co-operated with Cal State Fullerton, and PBS World); KOCE has three (main in HD, Daystar, and news/public affairs/traffic); and KLCS has four (main no HD, Kids, Create, and telecourses).

Four foreign-language stations (KSCI, KVMD, KXLA, and KJLA) each have mutliple channels of programming, ranging from Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Russian, Italian and Armenian, and in a multicultual city like Los Angeles, it's essential. KSCI has eight subs, KVMD also with eight, KXLA and KJLA each has nine. KXLA, KJLA, and KVMD are more or less "sister stations", they each their own licensee, but they're owned by the same family.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

I just hope that the technology improves to have larger bandwidth than what's available now. As it stands, a station that wants to have subchannels can only run 1, maybe 2 HD channels, and any remaining bandwidth would allow an SD channel.

The amount of bandwidth is fixed (by the FCC allowing 6MHz channels and the laws of physics).

However, current technology does allow for better digital video compression. The compression algorithm used on DTV is more than decade-old technology. With h.264, for example, I would guess 3-4 720p broadcasts could be put in on 6MHz channel.

Doing that would require everyone get new tuners again, which probably won't happen.