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Keeping The Bills in Buffalo

It’s unbelievable to me that this city thinks the Bills are the only thing good about Buffalo, even when they are bad.

I go to Bills games. We get a lot of pub nationwide from them. People peeing off rafters, jumping thru tables, having sex in the open, puking in parking lots, fighting in stands….it’s like a third world country.

My biggest problem is taxpayers to a large extent are funding this stadium without a say, because if we had a say, there would be no new stadium.
I've talked to people who say they've lived in Buffalo their whole lives. Many have never visited Niagara Falls or the trails on Niagara River gorge. A wonder of the world is in the backyard and it's ignored by locals. The NY side has never fully taken advantage of the tourism industry like Canada. Why not put some money into that instead of gifting a stadium to a billionaire?

Taxpayers should get to vote on the stadium deal. San Diego is one example where people said no to the NFL. They're doing fine. Los Angeles has 2 NFL teams and people still choose other activities on Sundays. The year round obsession with the Bills is about as healthy as a crackhead or meth user. That's exactly what an owner like Pegula (with the money from fracking) wants to exploit. Buffalo doesn't have Fortune 500 companies to buy luxury suites, so the taxpayers will get hosed on the deal...
 
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Taxpayers should get to vote on the stadium deal.

You do. The governor is running for election this year, and all of the county people are elected.

This isn't a bond issue or some kind of debt issue, so it doesn't get approved by the voters. But the people who made the decision are all elected.

Same thing with congress in DC. They get to appropriate billions of dollars without taxpayer approval. We live in a representative democracy, and that's how it works.

San Diego is one example where people said no to the NFL.

On the other hand, San Diego said yes to the MLB, and two city redevelopment agencies paid the full cost of building Petco Park.

Buffalo doesn't have Fortune 500 companies to buy luxury suites, so the taxpayers will get hosed on the deal...

The tickets aren't sold by the stadium, but by the team. The team will be selling personal seat licenses and boxes, so the team gets hosed if no one buys.

BTW the Erie County legislature met today to discuss the deal. Did you attend to make your feelings known?
 
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You do. The governor is running for election this year, and all of the county people are elected.

This isn't a bond issue or some kind of debt issue, so it doesn't get approved by the voters. But the people who made the decision are all elected.

Same thing with congress in DC. They get to appropriate billions of dollars without taxpayer approval. We live in a representative democracy, and that's how it works.



The tickets aren't sold by the stadium, but by the team. The team will be selling personal seat licenses and boxes, so the team gets hosed if no one buys.
Voters did not get a say on this issue. Sure, they can hold the current governor accountable and vote her out next time. That's not the point. The Bills are ranked #32 in terms of franchise value. The NFL wants more revenue. Why do you think they continue to schedule games in Europe and Mexico? They are seeking new markets.

Other cities have had stadium bond issues decided by voters. Yes, that was not the case in the Bills stadium deal. Of course, it has not been finalized yet...
 
Other cities have had stadium bond issues decided by voters. Yes, that was not the case in the Bills stadium deal.

Because as I said this is not a bond issue. The state and county are appropriating existing funds, not debt. They have also not proposed a tax increase to cover the cost. At least not yet. They could easily add to the local hotel tax or put a surcharge on the parking fees. There are lots of options that won't affect people who don't attend football games.

As I said, the county met today to discuss the deal. Here's the coverage:


If you read the article, it's clear that the county still owes money on the current stadium. So if they told the Pegulas no, and they moved the team to some other place, the county is still stuck paying money for an old empty stadium. So it's not like they have a choice here. The key thing about this deal is it ensures the team stays for 30 years to cover the cost of construction.
 
I think WECK should have a bit of local sports presence. Wouldn't hurt to give local listeners their sports fix without having to flip to GR. No matter how small it may be.
 
Take a look at the current property taxes on an average blue collar home in Buffalo The last time I looked it was about 3 times higher than the property taxes we pay in Charlotte. People have been screaming about their taxes in WNY for about as long as I can remember.

It would be a shame if Buffalo lost the Bills but it would also be a shame if the Bills lost Buffalo. Nowhere have I ever seen so many devoted fans!
 
There's no doubt that NY tax burden is higher than any other state.


With that said, the state budget last year was $212 Billion. Considering that about half of the state's contribution to the stadium is going to be offset by finally collecting the taxes owed by the Native American casinos, less than .05% of the budget is going to finance a new stadium for Buffalo. That's a spit in the ocean - especially since it's an investment that's likely to be offset by considerable revenue over the next 30+ years.

The current stadium will be 50+ years old when it's decommissioned. The new stadium is expected to last as long, provide considerably better facilities, and more opportunities for revenue. It also spreads that tax burden across the state and reduces the local commitment to funding ongoing costs. Seems like a win for WNY to me. And, we can use the positive press generated by the team.
 
With that said, the state budget last year was $212 Billion.

In one of the articles I posted, it mentioned the governor had already submitted her budget without the stadium money included, but it was felt that the amount was small enough to be considered "discretionary spending."
 
Take a look at the current property taxes on an average blue collar home in Buffalo The last time I looked it was about 3 times higher than the property taxes we pay in Charlotte. People have been screaming about their taxes in WNY for about as long as I can remember.

It would be a shame if Buffalo lost the Bills but it would also be a shame if the Bills lost Buffalo. Nowhere have I ever seen so many devoted fans!
Devoted or demented? Slavishly worshipping millionaires and billionaires isn't something to be proud of. The Bills make money whether the team wins or loses. Players get paid either way. The Bills and the NFL know that the franchise would make more money elsewhere.

Every city says they have the "Best" fans. Green Bay, Dallas, Kansas City, New Orleans, New England, etc... How about college football in Alabama? The only difference is those places have won championships...
 
Yet the NFL is contributing $200 million to the new stadium in Buffalo. So obviously they've changed their mind.
That's assuming the deal proceeds. There are still some hurdles to clear. The current stadium lease expires in 2023. The Bills will want to see construction actually happening.

A few years ago, the Bills were playing one "home" game in Toronto. They discontinued that experiment. The NFL still has its sights set on foreign markets. That's why they keep scheduling games in other countries...
 
The NFL still has its sights set on foreign markets. That's why they keep scheduling games in other countries...

It has nothing to do with Buffalo or a new stadium. It has to do with promoting American football in other countries.


So this year, Jacksonville will play in Munich. Does that mean the NFL wants Jacksonville to move there? No.

In December, four NFL teams -- the Carolina Panthers, Kansas City Chiefs, New England Patriots and Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- were granted access to Germany for marketing, fan engagement and commercialization
 
So this year, Jacksonville will play in Munich. Does that mean the NFL wants Jacksonville to move there? No.
The Jacksonville Jaguars could end up in London. They are a struggling franchise in Florida right now. They've been playing one game in London for the past several years.

The whole experiment with showcasing the NFL abroad is about tapping into new revenue...
 
The Jacksonville Jaguars could end up in London. They are a struggling franchise in Florida right now. T.

They're struggling because they suck. They're in last place. That won't change by moving the same players to another city, as they prove when they play away games in the US. This has nothing to do with building a new stadium in Buffalo.
 
The whole experiment with showcasing the NFL abroad is about tapping into new revenue...
But what the NFL does not realize... or refuses to realize... is that there is minimal or no "native" interest in American football abroad.

A study done in Mexico by a radio and TV group showed that the NFL games played there were almost exclusively attended by well-to-do Mexicans who had learned to like football while going to college in the US. There is little to no interest among those who have no "native" experience with the sport.

The "new revenue" idea is very limited. And just five International games is hardly a major achievement.
 
But what the NFL does not realize... or refuses to realize... is that there is minimal or no "native" interest in American football abroad.

A study done in Mexico by a radio and TV group showed that the NFL games played there were almost exclusively attended by well-to-do Mexicans who had learned to like football while going to college in the US. There is little to no interest among those who have no "native" experience with the sport.

The "new revenue" idea is very limited. And just five International games is hardly a major achievement.
While Mexico may not share enthusiasm for American Football, I assure you that in parts of Europe and
definitely in Australia, American Football is popular with the locals or "native" population. NFL games are
shown on Foxtel in Australia, live. The Superbowl has frequently been carried on Nine Network, One
of Australia's most popular over the air broadcast networks....... The biggest issue is the 18 hour time
difference.........
 
Devoted or demented? Slavishly worshipping millionaires and billionaires isn't something to be proud of. The Bills make money whether the team wins or loses. Players get paid either way. The Bills and the NFL know that the franchise would make more money elsewhere.

Every city says they have the "Best" fans. Green Bay, Dallas, Kansas City, New Orleans, New England, etc... How about college football in Alabama? The only difference is those places have won championships...

That's exactly the point. Win or lose the Bills have a loyal fan base. Since 1960 that's a long time! It's easy to have fans when you're winning.

I'm not a sports fan by any means just commenting on what I've seen.

Music and Radio were always my thing!
 
Let's not forget that NFL Commissioner, Roger Goodell, is from Jamestown, NY,
just 60 miles south of Fabulous Buffalo. The Governor, Hochul, is also from
the Buffalo, NY area...... Both have a vested interest in seeing The Bills remain,
where they belong, in Buffalo.....
 
Observations, in no particular order of importance.

Communities can play poker and call bluffs with the NFL if they're a top ten market. The Pats "stayed in Boston" (Foxboro) because the NFL needed a team in that top ten market. Buffalo doesn't hold the cards to call that kind of bluff. That noted, even larger cities have made concessions to the NFL in terms of bond status, land give-aways and other concessions.

Additionally, Robert Kraft turned the Patriots (Gillette) stadium into a "city center," which is exactly what Stan Kroenke is doing with his stadium in LA. Although such has not been the case over the last 48 years, the same concept could happen with the new stadium in Orchard Park.

The citizens of San Diego voted down a new stadium for the Chargers, who then moved back to LA, but the same citizens ponied up for a MLB baseball stadium. San Diego has losers remorse about the Chargers and desperately misses having an NFL franchise. At least two politicians from San Diego have said they would make a play for the Bills had the team hinted at leaving Buffalo, which BTW it didn't according to the County Executive and Bills negotiating brass.

The Bills have a higher level of impact than WECK, WBEN or any other (ten) radio station(s) in the market, whether it's 97 Rock (which on two separate periods had the Bills radio rights) or WYRK.


The Bills generate substantial tax revenue, both income and sales tax, for the state. More than any ten radio or TV stations in the market. So David Fields of WYRK gets points for that argument in his blog post.

Of all posters here, David Eduardo, a native of Cleveland, should understand the psychological impact of the loss of an NFL team. The Browns left for Baltimore and Cleveland for years was without an NFL team. Wisely, the city of Cleveland laid claim to the name "Browns" and the NFL awarded the city and expansion team (this, in large measure because Ohio Senators and Congressmen had leverage and threatened to put heat on the NFL.)

That duly noted, the Browns are a bloody train wreck these days, especially having signed a QB (Deshaun Watson) who has been named in numerous civil lawsuits, and may not even play this coming season; and having sidelined their once starting QB (Baker Mayfield) who's alienated the team and the city, recuperating from a serious shoulder injury, having diminished value in the NFL.

The footprint for Buffalo is far larger than any ADI or MSA metrics would indicate because the team is positioned (arguably and rightfully out of necessity) as a regional team which draws from Rochester and Toronto.

The value of national (positive) impressions for Buffalo because of the Bills cannot be under-estimated. Argue this point until you're red, white and Bills-blue in the face, but the value of national impressions for Buffalo and Western New York is incalculable. This is especially true because of the team's playoff stature in the last four years, and because of marquis players like Josh Allen and Stefon Diggs, to say nothing of the newly signed Von Miller and countless other established starters.

Admittedly, the Dallas Cowboys and a dozen other NFL teams sell more swag nationally, but no other entity, including the up-and-coming Sabres, moves swag in WNY like the Bills. And don't even think of putting a negative stamp on bad weather games. Fans across the country are glued to snow games ... whether they're played in Green Bay, Pittsburgh ... but especially in Buffalo. Snow is our calling card. We deal with it unlike any other city in America. Two inches of snow shuts down NYC ... it intimidates warm weather teams playing here. But fans and players in Buffalo thrive in it. Bills fans know, "there is no bad weather, only poor clothing choices." Could be the reason the new Bills stadium will not have a dome, but will have a covered portion for the fans, similar to the Seahawks stadium.

The lease for the new Bills stadium is 30 years. Iron clad. There are stringent penalties if the team moves before the 30 year period expires.

If you're against the stadium deal, the aforementioned points won't change your mind, but the fact is, the Bills are staying in Buffalo because the governor and Erie County Executive put together a deal to keep them here. If you don't like the deal, vote them out in November. There's your referendum.
 
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GOSH..... When I started this post, I had no idea it would be so controversial.
I was born, raised and educated in WNY. While I now live 2,300 miles away,
my heart and mind still have great attachments to the city and the region as well.
Weather aside, it was, is and likely always will be a great place to live. Whether
you agree or disagree with the stadium deal, the intangible is that there is a great
sense of PRIDE, COMMUNITY, etc, etc, etc in W.N.Y. that is sorely lacking elsewhere.
It brings a smile to my face to see businesses like WECK Radio, The Bills, Fowler's
chocolates, Perry's Ice Cream, THE BILLS and countless others do well...... You cannot put
a price tag on that!!!!!!!! Go Bills, Go WECK Radio, Go W.N.Y!!!!!!!!
Erie County is one of the few places in New York State actually gaining population.
That is per WGRZ TV's recent 6 pm newscast which I watch frequently.....
The only population growth is coming from Refugees. WNY is still losing population to the Southern States, although certainly not at the level of 20 years ago when basically 15% of Buffalo moved to Charlotte, NC
 
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