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KEGL

No - he's talking playlist construction for radio.

If playlist construction were irrelevant, music stations would play the same song on a loop between ads or perhaps play ads nonstop.

PD music instincts should not always be thrown completely out the window, as some here are suggesting. Research - if performed and interpreted properly - is certainly a wonderful tool. Not disputing that one bit.

This is why most active rock stations around the country are built around talk show hosts with music as filler.
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Content that airs 18+ hours weekdays and often all day weekends is not "filler."

Rock stations that are all talk or mostly talk in both drive time dayparts are not common within the format.
 
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Radio isn't in the music business.

Yet you're sitting in a thread arguing over it.

I'm sure you and Eduardo are great people - but you don't know the format. And it's like you're arguing just to argue. I'm not going to bang my head into a wall with this topic with the same 2 people. That is as well, insanity.
 
Kramer said:
Radio isn't in the music business.

Yet you're sitting in a thread arguing over it.
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I'm not arguing. I'm trying to explain it. Radio is not the same thing as streaming. It never will be. As I said before, there will never be a radio station that will only play the songs I want to hear. There is a certain amount of tolerance involved.

At some point, all the pieces will be in place, and people will complain about too much talk.
 
So who’s the female that’s on right now?

Edit: It’s Krystina Ray.
 
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Kramer said:
I'm sure you and Eduardo are great people - but you don't know the format.
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I created the rock station with the largest audience, ever, in the Western Hemisphere. I've been part of many rock research projects in the U.S. and other countries.

We are not, in any case, talking about my knowledge of specific songs and artists. This is about finding out what listeners want to hear and giving it to them.
 
If I named 5 musical artists - 4 of which were rock bands in the last 20 years with #1 hits and one of them was a smooth jazz artist, would you be able to identify the jazz one, without looking it up?

No. No offense either, it's just the answer is no.

It's corporate music programming that has completely derailed any loyalty to a rock radio station. I know who did the music at the Eagle. Brad Hardin. I know him personally. He was at one time an idol. He was a magnificent programmer in Tampa at WXTB. He used to come to my remotes and hang out. Over the years he's leaned heavily on classic rock. Both he and Marc Chase were just in town two weeks ago working on all of the music. Again, the music on the Eagle is almost there. And that's coming from someone who's a fan of much newer and heavier stuff. You are correct that there are listeners who will wonder why you're not playing some B side from some metal band in Russia cuz they love it - and we know it's not mass appeal, and that is what we're goin' for right? MASS APPEAL. Well the same applies for records like Weezer or 21 Pilots. Those are not mass appeal records to OUR audience. They are mass appeal records to Alt.

When you're broke, and iHeart is, they aren't going to have auditorium testing. They wouldn't even if they could. They don't care. They think they know what's right for individual markets.

There are other things to point out about the programming, and I don't want to criticize too much right now because it's early. I've listened for a week, and I'm hearing 9 to 10 minute stopsets. On no planet would any research suggest that a modern day man between the ages of 30-45 (hyper target) is going to sit thru that, along with weather and a sponsor, along with traffic with a sponsor, along with SPORTS (I heard that his morning) and you guessed it - with a sponsor - only to hear a Pink Floyd record from 1970. Now, if any of you want to take a stab at defending that - I'd be more than delighted to hear it.

Imaging is fantastic. The positioning is incredible. The clips with the core artists that are custom made for the Eagle sound MASSIVE and sounds plugged in.

At the end of the day it's success is limited by Ben and Skin, The Mavs, and the unbelievable stopsets. Reading the Facebook page when B&S debuted at the remote tells you that no one likes it, and no one is loyal to it - because it doesn't fit. It didn't fit the 1st time (proof in the ratings) - it didn't fit the 2nd time (proof in the ratings that ultimately forced it to change formats after only 483 days) and now here we are again.

I wonder how much money that show brings in that it would make management keep it on although an unbelievable detriment to them ultimately. It's fascinates me. If you took it off and grew the ratings and trust of potential advertisers, upped the prices and lowered the amount of stopset time - wouldn't um . . . I know this is crazy talk . . . but ummmmm, wouldn't that be better?

I dunno. I am just a 30 year vet of radio, mostly spent in rock and talk radio with an unbelievable track record with ratings in MAJOR markets, and worked at the Eagle pulling 20 shares 12+ when I was there, and I guess I just don't get quantita - guantita . . . quauauanniatattive analalllsysis.
 
Kramer said:
If I named 5 musical artists - 4 of which were rock bands in the last 20 years with #1 hits and one of them was a smooth jazz artist, would you be able to identify the jazz one, without looking it up?
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I'd love you to do that, because I spent a few years running a jazz station. No other reason.

Kramer said:
I've listened for a week, and I'm hearing 9 to 10 minute stopsets. On no planet would any research suggest that a modern day man between the ages of 30-45 (hyper target) is going to sit thru that,
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The spots have to run. There's nobody in that entire company who has the power to say no to spots. But the research is pretty clear and consistent of whether you should run them as a cluster or spread out through the hour. The current thinking is two breaks an hour. Having said that, every programmer I know would gladly run no spots at all if they could. Their entire strategy is built around minimizing damage. That's all they can do. It would be nice if there was another revenue stream. I spent years trying to find one. My best answer is open a liquor store & bar in the station lobby, and use the profits to fund the radio station.

Kramer said:
I wonder how much money that show brings in that it would make management keep it on although an unbelievable detriment to them ultimately.
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My theory is this: The only thing making money at that station is Mavericks basketball. That's why it's there. They could run 1khz tone the rest of the day. It doesn't matter. The ratings don't matter. Especially if the Mavericks keep winning.
 
Kramer said:
If I named 5 musical artists - 4 of which were rock bands in the last 20 years with #1 hits and one of them was a smooth jazz artist, would you be able to identify the jazz one, without looking it up?

No. No offense either, it's just the answer is no.
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Actually, I own one of the world's only complete DownBeat magazine collections, and spent my first five years in radio in jazz and R&B. So, yeah, I can tell a jazz artist from some rock bands.
Kramer said:
It's corporate music programming that has completely derailed any loyalty to a rock radio station. I know who did the music at the Eagle. Brad Hardin. I know him personally. He was at one time an idol. He was a magnificent programmer in Tampa at WXTB. He used to come to my remotes and hang out. Over the years he's leaned heavily on classic rock. Both he and Marc Chase were just in town two weeks ago working on all of the music. Again, the music on the Eagle is almost there. And that's coming from someone who's a fan of much newer and heavier stuff. You are correct that there are listeners who will wonder why you're not playing some B side from some metal band in Russia cuz they love it - and we know it's not mass appeal, and that is what we're goin' for right? MASS APPEAL. Well the same applies for records like Weezer or 21 Pilots. Those are not mass appeal records to OUR audience. They are mass appeal records to Alt.
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Programmers can not change what listeners like. They should not try.

On the other hand, the way they combine the songs that they do like is an art. The secret may have been color dots on the carts in the 50's, but today it is setting the rules for Music Master or Selector and coding each song to get the kind of sets you are striving form.
Kramer said:
When you're broke, and iHeart is, they aren't going to have auditorium testing. They wouldn't even if they could. They don't care. They think they know what's right for individual markets.
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Actually, they do have music testing. Yes, they combine what they believe are similar markets but the songs are definitely tested.

Do you know how much a music test costs vs. annual billing of a top 10 station in DFW?
 
The spots have to run. There's nobody in that entire company who has the power to say no to spots. But the research is pretty clear and consistent of whether you should run them as a cluster or spread out through the hour. The current thinking is two breaks an hour. Having said that, every programmer I know would gladly run no spots at all if they could. Their entire strategy is built around minimizing damage. That's all they can do. It would be nice if there was another revenue stream. I spent years trying to find one. My best answer is open a liquor store & bar in the station lobby, and use the profits to fund the radio station.
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So radio stations have to run spots to make money. That's basically what you said. Never got any defending of 10 minutes.

Cheyenne, WY. The OM went to sales and said as of now, there is 1 minute of commercials per hour. They will be at the top of the hour and done by a jock in their own words. This is a premium service that requires premium pricing.

Billing - went up.
Ratings - went up.

I'll repeat, no one is gonna sit thru 10 minutes of BS to hear a predictable song and a song easily found on 1,000 other mediums.

You guys act like the radio business is just booming. As I continue to post here, I keep doing so just to see if anyone will half way admit that there's something wrong - and none of you ever do. You're defending a radio station that hasn't had anything above a 3.0 in what - probably 4 years?

Wild.
 
Lone Star 92.5 tried the 1 spot an hour/branding idea with a more Texas-centric format. They got a few takers but overall, agencies that represented the accounts that could do this would not bite because it didn't match their cost per thousand. Anyway, agencies tend not to buy into many new concepts without a prior track record. Exceptional idea but it would take a long time to pull off, if at all in a major market. You'd have to be a 'must buy' and even then, the budget/plan may not allow it.

In Cheyenne, I'd suspect 95% of more of the station's advertisers are via direct local contact. In other words, you're selling to the account direct. When it comes to the agency, they're likely thinking 'hurry up, I've got lots to do', knowing the salesperson has zero chance.
 
Kramer said:
So radio stations have to run spots to make money. That's basically what you said. Never got any defending of 10 minutes.
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Nobody is defending commercials. Just saying there is no choice. Revenues are down and costs are increasing everywhere. Sirius, Spotify, Amazon are all laying off staff and increasing prices to consumers because advertising revenue is down. Radio stations can't increase prices to consumers. They can't increase prices to advertisers because advertisers just go someplace else.
Kramer said:
Cheyenne, WY. The OM went to sales and said as of now, there is 1 minute of commercials per hour. They will be at the top of the hour and done by a jock in their own words. This is a premium service that requires premium pricing.
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To quote you; Cheyenne Wyoming is not Dallas Texas. Try doing that in Dallas. Go ahead. Advertisers can be the only advertiser in an hour. But that's not what they want. Advertisers want repetition. They want IMPRESSIONS. Multiple impressions. That's what they buy. Nobody buys one spot. They also have that option at KERA, and sponsorships are down there too. As you say: You act like business is booming. It's not. They run those spots because that's the only source of revenue they have. They can't raise prices because of competition.
Kramer said:
I'll repeat, no one is gonna sit thru 10 minutes of BS to hear a predictable song and a song easily found on 1,000 other mediums.
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Here's radio 101: Radio stations sell time to advertisers. That time is theirs. It's up to them to create advertising that will attract business for their products. If people aren't sitting through the 10 minutes, that's the advertisers fault. They bought the time. The PD is responsible for getting the audience back after the spots are done. That's how radio works. If advertisers want to change the model, it's their money. They can do it. But this is the system they want. They also insist we subscribe to Nielsen. So we're playing by their rules.

But you're right. Radio doesn't have an exclusive to music. None of it, including the 50 bands you say KEGL should play. That's why they have The Mavericks. No other radio station has The Mavericks. They can charge whatever they want for advertising during Mavericks games. That's why I say the ratings don't matter. Sports makes money with a 1 share. Ratings don't matter. Revenue is all that matters, and you can't make money with 1 spot an hour.

Kramer said:
You're defending a radio station that hasn't had anything above a 3.0 in what - probably 4 years?
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Nobody is defending anything. Just laying out the reality.
 
Loverofradio said:
Any reason why the Eagle is still running a few liners from the freak? and the constant “portions of this program were prerecorded?” Do programs directors not look at nexgen and realize what’s running on their station anymore?
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I think that's what iHeart stations do. I hear "portions of the following program are pre-recorded" on their music and talk stations. I hear similar messages on stations owned by other companies. I wonder if the FCC mandates it.
 
MichaelD1972 said:
I wonder if the FCC mandates it.
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They do. A station was fined because of it. That's why stations do it.

thedesk.net

Salem agrees to pay FCC fine of $50,000 over "live" programming

Salem Media Group has agreed to pay a $50,000 civil penalty after one of its stations violated federal requirements over pre-recorded programming.
thedesk.net thedesk.net

Federal regulations require licensed broadcasters like radio and television stations to make an announcement that a show is pre-recorded when viewers or listeners might infer a show being broadcast is live.
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There is no such law for satellite or streaming radio.
 
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