But is it ever 1980 or 1981? XM Eighties on Eight thinks the Eighties only began with the premiere of MTV and shamefully ignores the great hits of the pre-MTV era (unless they are doing a Billboard countdown, where they really don't have that choice).BTW, it's always 1985 at the stations running The Eighties Channel ...
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Kevin Weatherly Returns To KROQ
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K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
It's any year in the decade, depending on when in the hour you're listening, and there are a few songs that even go as far back as (gasp) 1979, such as Pat Benatar's "Heartbreaker", which started getting CHR airplay at the end of that year, peaking in early 1980. And, of course, the first two hits by Blondie actually peaked in 1979, although 90%+ of listeners think "Heart Of Glass" and "One Way Or Another" were released in 1980.
You actually got me wondering what the current percentages of the library are per year, so I did some quick calculations ... years determined by when the song peaked, 1980 includes that handful of songs from 1979, and 1989 includes a few songs that started in that year but peaked in 1990:
- 1980 - 4%
- 1981 - 6%
- 1982 - 10%
- 1983 - 15%
- 1984 - 14%
- 1985 - 13%
- 1986 - 10%
- 1987 - 9%
- 1988 - 9%
- 1989 - 9%
I should also add that there are more songs from 1980 and 1981 in my hourly "Forgotten 45s" feature's library than there are in the main library; I only considered the latter when calculating percentages. And the above numbers also do not include the titles in the library for the Saturday night "classic New Wave" block.
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So you are short-changing 1980-81 too, the two years combined only making 10% of your playlist but 20% of the actual decade.
Since you have stats on Classic Hits airplay, have you noticed that “Running up that hill” has seen a resurgence in Classic Hits airplay? Have you put it on the Eighties Channel? Thanks in advance
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
As I said already, there are a lot more 1980-81 titles in the hourly "Forgotten 45s" library. If you had access to BDS as I do, you would see that among Classic Hits stations in general, a lot of titles from those years have declined in popularity.
My personal observation, based on my decisions using the BDS data to move songs to F45, is that those two years were the tail end of the A/C-heavy music era which had begun around 1977-78. They simply don't rate as well as they used to when tested alongside the CHR hits that came later in the decade.
I would like to caution you not to fall into the trap of thinking all years are equal in terms of music representation. This is the case regardless of decade. (Your argument of "10% of the music, 20% of the decade" would appear to indicate your thinking is already badly focused in that regard.)
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K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
Not yet, and I am watching that. At the moment it is in the Saturday night library.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
I decided, since you are infamous for trying to create a "gotcha" by using your limited knowledge of programming to "prove" a point that only resonates with "armchair quarterback" listeners, to provide some stats on the F45 library.
1980 - 7%
1981 - 12%
1982 - 8%
1983 - 10%
1984 - 7%
1985 - 12%
1986 - 11%
1987 - 13%
1988 - 12%
1989 - 8%
And even the big A/C artists and their hits from what appear to be your two favorite years are sufficiently declining in Classic Hits airplay in general for me to have removed them from this feature. Only four artists have even three titles in this library from 1980-81: Pat Benatar, Christopher Cross, John Lennon and Bob Seger. No one with four or more.
I am beginning to understand why Sirius/XM has the programming philosophy that you detest. It's because those pre-MTV titles are going downhill fast on terrestrial radio as well.
So I must respectfully ask that you knock it off. The facts prove you wrong, big time.
Probably not my place, but I'm calling foul on this. Let Frank and David say what they will, but imho this crosses the line of "professional and respectful". I find the tone of the entire post to be beneath someone with your experience.
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K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
Good luck with that. David uses the term "armchair quarterback" more than I do, and ChannelFlipper's own history confirms my observation on his trying to prove he knows more than the professionals.
Let me make it clear why my tone is what it is. David, BigA, and I spend an inordinate amount of time countering the non-professional POVs and even when we present facts it does not stop certain people (ChannelFlipper being prominent in this regard) from insisting that they are right and we are wrong.
You want bad tone of voice? How about ChannelFlipper's snide remark, after my first response, that I am "also short-changing" those two years. I use BDS airplay to see what is and is not still getting significant airplay. Others use Mediabase, and both show a trickle-down effect that comes from the music research that the major market stations perform.
If I am wrong, so is every Classic Hits programmer in the U.S.
Perhaps I missed the part where this board is for "professionals only"? This is a place for EVERYONE to share thoughts and opinions and I'm sorry if you're offended at the notion someone you think beneath your "expertise" might have something to say. I will show myself the door now.
K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
I'm afraid that you missed my point. Opinions are one thing, flying in the face of facts is another.
Once any individual participant has been shown the facts, common sense dictates that they drop the matter. Bringing up the same point again, over and over, increases the perception that you think you know more than the people who are quoting the facts.
Once any individual participant has been shown the facts, common sense dictates that they drop the matter. Bringing up the same point again, over and over, increases the perception that you think you know more than the people who are quoting the facts.
While there is not hard and fast rule here about what kind of opinions those who are not "professionals" can post, it is recommended that listeners and radio followers first "test the waters" with questions about why stations do what they do.
A good example is found in the love affair some posters have with small market stations that have extensive and broad playlists. Those of us who have worked in larger markets know that this is generally done when a station has less seasoned programmers, does not have a budget for music testing and can't even afford BDS or MediaBase.
Such stations will sometimes use the Whitburn books or just go by the owner or PD's taste.
That kind of programming won't ever work in larger markets and this has been proven by countless failures by "I know what the listeners want" programmers. The recent KROQ episode is a good example of a huge market with a misguided program philosophy.
There are many here who are successful and proven station managers, owners, sellers, engineers and PDs who will give valuable advice and opinions. The conflict occurs when folks who have not had to fight in the audience wars make assumptions that are quickly and rationally dismissed by those of us who have been in such situations.
One of the roles I had for the last 20 years at one employer was to show how "new" ideas were sometimes old bad ideas that had been tried and disproved in the past. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it".
I am one of them, and I learned a long time ago that some of the best ideas come from the least likely of places/people. I also learned that I'm not always right, irrespective of how much experience I had. Some here (no names) seem incapable of that kind of introspection.
However, "new ideas" generally are not. That is why stations in markets that can afford research test them; one person's opinion is "sample size = 1" and not valid unless proven to be broadly held.
Most of the people here who have been successful have also learned for bad experiences. A friend, upon being fired by John Kluge, was told, "son, you don't learn from your successes".
There is a lot of knowledge here, much of it based on millions of dollars of research and thousands of years of experience.
Just look at a couple of the engineers who post here to help others: Kelly, Schrodinger's Cat, Greg Strickland and several others bring a lifetime of experience to help others... freely and openly.
Where else can you ask questions and get honest answers... at no cost?
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K.M. Richards
Program Director, The Eighties Channel™
I have to say this, because in context it makes the point ...
The only programmers who can even hope to make the claim of "knowing what the listeners want" are the ones who have access to research and then know how to use that research without being unduly influenced by their own tastes.
And that, to come back to how this unfortunate argument started, is why the music of 1980 and 1981 only constitutes 10% of the Classic Hits airplay while being 20% of the decade chronologically. The research says fewer and fewer of those titles are still considered to be among those in the consensus listener favorites.
I rest my case and thank the supporting counsel for his input.
It was also the last year or so of disco, and a lot of those songs haven't aged well. The problem with music formats based on calendars is that music the doesn't actually work that way. Olivia Newton John had most of her hits in the 70s and then one more in 1980. Same with Captain & Tennile. Just because 80 & 81 were the start of a new decade doesn't mean the music fits the rest of the decade. They may have been leftovers from the 70s. They were likely written & recorded in the 70s.
I agree. I accepted KMR's post #125 where he made his point without further comment . The tone of posts #127 and #129 is insulting, degrading, and completely inappropriate in addition to being totally inaccurate with regard to my motives. Nobody on this board is trying to play "gotcha" or prove knowledge, least of all me. I am an expert in another field, radio is a hobby for me as stated on many occasions.
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Here I disagree. KM has given lots of analytical data on 80's music, and in exchange he got criticzed for having fewer 1980 and 1981 songs despite his explanation of the transitional status of CHR early in the decade. I think, here, KM was quite patient in his presentation of how the songs from the era can and should be balanced.
Radio programming is not based on charts from 40 years ago. It is based on how much listeners want to hear older songs today.
As I said, his explanation was fine and accepted without further comment. You are willfully ignoring his lack of adherence to the board's stated policies regarding professionalism and decorum in the referenced posts. It is not acceptable to disparage other posters by name and call out (wildly inaccurately) their motives. It is the height of lack of professionalism.
Enough of this nonsense.
We have gotten completely off topic.
I am closing this thread.
We have gotten completely off topic.
I am closing this thread.
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