KFI in Top 10 billers

[travisl5678]

KROQ, KFI, and KIIS are all top 10 billers this year, thoughts?

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Guess that KFI simulcast on 92.3 is still a ways off.

 

[davideduardo]

Guess that KFI simulcast on 92.3 is still a ways off.

The fact that there is so much revenue in play dictates ongoing consideration of adding FM to KFI... just as high billing KCBS in San Francisco added FM to bolster its 25-54 numbers before revenue started declining.

 

[AM FM listener]

The thing that surprised me was that WTOP-FM in Washington DC was the top biller in the nation. That's in the #9 market. The rest of the Top 10 are in NY, LA and Chicago, as one would expect.

If WTOP can bring in $57 million in the #9 market, imagine what KFI could bill if it was simulcast on FM! To me, the question is how are the billings at KHHT? News-Talk listeners will tolerate a lot more commercials than will music radio listeners.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Guess that KFI simulcast on 92.3 is still a ways off.

The fact that there is so much revenue in play dictates ongoing consideration of adding FM to KFI... just as high billing KCBS in San Francisco added FM to bolster its 25-54 numbers before revenue started declining.

David, I agree with you (and have made the same point myself several times over the last year). My point above is that CC simply has not bought into that logic, particularly as it relates to the LA market. These results will only convince them that there is currently little marginal upside to taking out a full FM signal today for what in their minds is a long-term trend that they don't need to be in the front of.

I'm actually beginning to think it maybe it will be one of the sports stations, not KFI, that will migrate to FM first in LA. The first one that does changes the landscape dramatically and immediately when (if) it does.

 

[radioguy39nj]

The thing that surprised me was that WTOP-FM in Washington DC was the top biller in the nation. That's in the #9 market. The rest of the Top 10 are in NY, LA and Chicago, as one would expect.

If WTOP can bring in $57 million in the #9 market, imagine what KFI could bill if it was simulcast on FM! To me, the question is how are the billings at KHHT? News-Talk listeners will tolerate a lot more commercials than will music radio listeners.

That is the question! Long-term, what can bill more on 92.3, KHHT or KFI-FM? A KFI simulcast in the #2 market could easily beat WTOP in market #9.

 

[davideduardo]

If WTOP can bring in $57 million in the #9 market, imagine what KFI could bill if it was simulcast on FM! To me, the question is how are the billings at KHHT? News-Talk listeners will tolerate a lot more commercials than will music radio listeners.

Can you imagine how much of the not-too-shabby KFI billing is at risk as the years go by and the AM audience gets older and older and older?

KFI billed $63 million in 2006. That was pre-recession and pre-a-lot-of-internet-growth. But when you have had it in your hand, and know it can be done, protecting that revenue is critical.

For all practical purposes, KFI is the only significant talk station in the market. It has a unique franchise at the moment, and needs to protect its position with a wide moat.

Interestingly, except for the underwhelming Limbaugh hours, KFI has created a KGO for the Southland. Mostly local shows, a focus that is not rabidly to the right and a really fine news department. And, unlike KGO, it looks quite a bit better in 25-54 than K-"stick a fork in it"-GO and would be well rewarded by adding an FM simulcast.

Note that I am heaping praise on a Clear Channel station... the whipping boy for terrestrial radio has a pretty good radio station here. It would be fun to see what happened if it added one of Maj. Armstrong's contraptions to its arsenal.

 

[radioguy39nj]

That's the key for KFI, mostly live and local shows. They're stuck with Rush as they are a CC station. Add a Maj Armstrong contraption and you've got a juggernaut!

In NY, you see all-news WCBS-AM and WINS and all-sports WFAN in the top 10 billing stations. Why? Because they're live and local! Conspicuous by their absence is talkers WABC and WOR. And why is that? They air mostly syndicated programming, especially WABC!

WABC may not be a CC station but the contracts with Rush and Sean were up at the end of 2010 and I presume have been renewed. WABC has for many years been the flagship for Rush and Sean. They are also the flagship for other Citadel programming, Imus, Levin, John Batchelor. I see no way they make any investment in more local NY area centric programming.

 

[travisl5678]

I think its definatly in CCs best interest to make 92.3 KFI-FM while there numbers are still going up

 

[amisdead]

That's the key for KFI, mostly live and local shows. They're stuck with Rush as they are a CC station.

I don't think that is correct. If KFI could do substantially better than Rush with another show I suspect they would make a change. Perhaps turn 1150 into a more red and blue talk station and move Rush over there. KFI has a lot of autonomy. Los Angeles is not Des Moines and KFI is not being run from San Antonio.

 

[LKellerIII]

That's the key for KFI, mostly live and local shows. They're stuck with Rush as they are a CC station.

I don't think that is correct. If KFI could do substantially better than Rush with another show I suspect they would make a change. Perhaps turn 1150 into a more red and blue talk station and move Rush over there. KFI has a lot of autonomy. Los Angeles is not Des Moines and KFI is not being run from San Antonio.

In the San Francisco Bay Area, Limbaugh runs on Citadel's KSFO (KGO's sister station), not on either of Clear Channels 2 talk stations - KNEW or KKGN. I assume they do this because KSFO gets higher ratings in general than either CC station.

So obviously, CC could take Rush off KFI and farm him out to another station if it was in their best interest to do so.

 

[surfdude]

KFI would have to add the revenue KHHT bills just to break even if they took over the signal.
That's got to be another 15 million or more. Plus, they'd probably fire the KHHT programming staff.
There's enough people out of work. We don't need that poor excuse for a human being Rush replacing more people.

There's a lot at stake. It's not a game on a discussion board.

 

[amisdead]

KFI would have to add the revenue KHHT bills just to break even if they took over the signal.
That's got to be another 15 million or more. Plus, they'd probably fire the KHHT programming staff.
There's enough people out of work. We don't need that poor excuse for a human being Rush replacing more people.

Don't let your personal disdain for Rush bleed into your reasoning. Owners don't make programming decisions based on how many people are already out of work. You make the decision based on maximizing and protecting your assets.

If they put KFI on 92.3, the costs of operating KHHT would be reduced almost entirely. Plus you did not calculate the potential risk to KFI's revenue by doing anything.

I'm not going to make any date predictions, but I don't think we are very far away from KFI being on FM.

 

[stevechang]

For all practical purposes, KFI is the only significant talk station in the market. It has a unique franchise at the moment, and needs to protect its position with a wide moat.

Interestingly, except for the underwhelming Limbaugh hours, KFI has created a KGO for the Southland. Mostly local shows, a focus that is not rabidly to the right and a really fine news department.

I've never known any program director (KFI's included) to be forward thinking as to plan for the future positioning. Otherwise KABC would not have been in the position it finds itself in. Program Directors are akin to used car sales dealers and only have their eye on the next hour or so.

As for the "really fine news department". I dare anyone to find a single newscast where Terri-Rae hasn't goofed up. On a daily basis she reads the news with the same errors, misstatements and wrong pronounciations as a high schooler. Then you have the idiotic Steve Gregory with his constipated and juvenile sign offs.

I think John and Ken would agree with me on their news department since they always seem to slam them for never asking revelant questions of politicians when they are on their show to plug their story.

 

[surfdude]

amisdead said
If they put KFI on 92.3, the costs of operating KHHT would be reduced almost entirely. Plus you did not calculate the potential risk to KFI's revenue by doing anything.

KFI is already doing very well. KHHT's operating expense does not put a dent into their 12 million
(approx.) in billing.

The Rush comment was not political. His ratings are dropping everywhere with the new ratings methodology. I don't want to see good local people replaced by Ryan Seacrest either.

 

[davideduardo]

In the San Francisco Bay Area, Limbaugh runs on Citadel's KSFO (KGO's sister station), not on either of Clear Channels 2 talk stations - KNEW or KKGN. I assume they do this because KSFO gets higher ratings in general than either CC station.

Neither CC AM has what could even remotely be called a full market signal. KSFO is pretty close to being one, however.

 

[davideduardo]

amisdead said

KFI is already doing very well. KHHT's operating expense does not put a dent into their 12 million
(approx.) in billing.

KHHT bills just a bit under $20 million.

Any station has certain expenses that are revenue based. Selling expense, depending on the station and market, can be up to 25% of gross revenue, so right there you start whittling down the profits. In LA, costs like transmitter site rent can be very high... so don't think that just because the station has a lower cost air staff, the station costs much less to run than KOST or KYSR.

And KFI is losing, slowly, ground in 25-54. At some point, like we see in other markets ever week (in the last 7 days, Kansas City and Portland saw AM talkers move to FM), KFI will have to make a move.

 

[davideduardo]

If they put KFI on 92.3, the costs of operating KHHT would be reduced almost entirely.

All the fixed costs such as engineering, etc. continue... simulcasting would add quite a bit to the KFI expenses, but would protect and likely grow revenues in the long run.

 

[radioguy39nj]

And KFI is losing, slowly, ground in 25-54. At some point, like we see in other markets ever week (in the last 7 days, Kansas City and Portland saw AM talkers move to FM), KFI will have to make a move.

That is the key, the 25-54 demo. This age bracket grew up with FM. AM was an afterthought, a place you went mostly to hear your favorite sports team. Even sports is headed for FM.

As mentioned, Kansas City and Portland, OR have just seen long-time AM talkers add FM simulcasts. When KFI-FM becomes reality in LA, New York and Chicago might actually take notice!

 

[Bryan Simmons]

amisdead said

KFI is already doing very well. KHHT's operating expense does not put a dent into their 12 million
(approx.) in billing.

KHHT bills just a bit under $20 million.

Any station has certain expenses that are revenue based. Selling expense, depending on the station and market, can be up to 25% of gross revenue, so right there you start whittling down the profits. In LA, costs like transmitter site rent can be very high... so don't think that just because the station has a lower cost air staff, the station costs much less to run than KOST or KYSR.

And KFI is losing, slowly, ground in 25-54. At some point, like we see in other markets ever week (in the last 7 days, Kansas City and Portland saw AM talkers move to FM), KFI will have to make a move.

All speculation at this point as to what may happen. It all has to add up...