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KFI Tower

Hello!

I'm sorry, did I err?

Let me clarify: I am not contradicting David per se - he is correct in his statement: KFI does not sell or generate revenue directly in San Diego. David is also correct, from an operations and management standpoint, when he says that a big station with a big signal wants to preserve that big signal primarily to come in like a rock all over their licensed metro. No arguments here, and no cauase for bashing David!

What I am stating is something slightly different. I have been told, by people inside the LA Clear Channel cluster whose names I cannot use here, that the condition of KFI's signal and their reduced coverage into San Diego is of some concern due to the fact that some buys are placed because they penetrate south so well. Orange County and San Diego are, after all, quite desirable markets in and of themselves, with a large percentage of affluent residents. Some advertisers, who have products not constrained to the LA metro, like buying KFI because the Southern exposure is, to their mind, like getting bonus spots in the south.

A good sales department will make hay with every advantage they have to offer. A really good salesperson will sell coverage outside the licensed metro into heavily populated areas, and will pitch this effectively. You see?

For the record, I respect David. And, while I'm about 20 years shy of his time in the business, I'm a radio professional too, thank you, with every bit of it spent here in the Southland.

- Doc

> The radio professional who can cite actual facts and numbers
> is "nonsense" and someone who "has it on good authority" but
> cannot prove what he is saying has credibility.
>
> Bzzzzzt.
>
> Thanks for playing ... Don Pardo will tell you what the
> consolation prize is.
>
 
Re: Hello!

> I'm sorry, did I err?

No, but the person who used your post to trash David did.

(And you all know what the error was.)<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: KFI? Does that stil stand for Keeping Fascists Ignorant?

> You're smoking crack if you think KFI is a fullservice radio
> station.
>
> They do one thing very well: appeal to right wing, angry
> white people.
>
> They serve that audience very well. But do not for a moment
> think that they speak to the full market.
>
> KFI is as full service as KPFK, if KPFK ran traffic reports.

Up until six days ago, WWL was a dumbed-down, overblown "BIG 870" talk station with a lot of sports talk... hardly an essential public service. Oh, yeah, some weekend infomercials, paid religious time, and third-tier national hosts. In Baton Rouge, CC's WYNK was a throwaway clown outfit. Now look at them. They've risen to the call to provide around-the-clock public service to their communities. And you can bet that KFI would use it's wide coverage area to relay news to SoCal if something devastating happened there.

Speaking of which, David (or anyone else who knows), in the event of a disaster, could KFI become non-directional to fill-in any areas not served by its westward-dominant pattern? Where would their signal reach operating ND? Perhaps they'd have to reduce power to do so?
 
> KFI's signal is not the same in the coverage area - I work
> in downtown LA and the buidlings cause a tremendous amount
> of interference now where they had not previously. In an
> earthquake or terrorism event, that could mean the
> difference between life and death. Also KFI is a regional
> signal that not only extends beyond the LA Metro, but is
> valued and relied upon in areas far beyond the metro. Ask
> the people in the High Desert how much they value KFI and
> KFI is in their community (reference ohn and Ken protesting
> the release of sex offenders in their community)

How many markets does KFI outrate at least one, if not all, local news/talkers in 12+? San Diego, Bakersfield, Inland Empire (if that counts), etc.

> As far as codes go, sorry, lives are more important than
> codes. There is a lot at stake here. The fact of the matter
> is, the tower will be rebuit and its only government
> bureacracy that stands in the way.

What is this code nonsense? I understand the principle behind them and that you can't just go around deviating from the law, but just because same wino flew a plane into the tower isn't a reason to keep this regional station from performing as a Class A. While I suppose it's not radio related, the same should apply, IMHO, to any home or building demolished by someone else's incompetence or malice. Plus, I miss hearing KFI as clear as it once was here in Phoenix.
 
Re: KFI? Does that stil stand for Keeping Fascists Ignorant?

>
> Up until six days ago, WWL was a dumbed-down, overblown "BIG
> 870" talk station with a lot of sports talk... hardly an
> essential public service. Oh, yeah, some weekend
> infomercials, paid religious time, and third-tier national
> hosts. In Baton Rouge, CC's WYNK was a throwaway clown
> outfit. Now look at them. They've risen to the call to
> provide around-the-clock public service to their
> communities. And you can bet that KFI would use it's wide
> coverage area to relay news to SoCal if something
> devastating happened there.

Any of a dozen LA staitons, run non-directional, would have comparable coverage of the urban areas of SoCal. 710, 830, 1020, 1070, 1150, 1110, etc. are all 50 kw and could run day and night non'DA and cover everything needed.
>
> Speaking of which, David (or anyone else who knows), in the
> event of a disaster, could KFI become non-directional to
> fill-in any areas not served by its westward-dominant
> pattern?

It is already non-directional, and has been since 1922. It is what used t be considered a 1-A clear channel station, non direcional 50 kw and non duplicated in the US:

: Where would their signal reach operating ND?
> Perhaps they'd have to reduce power to do so?

Groundwave daytime, Tijuana to Santa Barbara and inland to Bakersfield, Lancaster, Victorvill, Redlands, Hemet, Corona. Nights depends on the Mexican interference, but usually somewhat less than the daytime as far as local area coverage.
 
>
> How many markets does KFI outrate at least one, if not all,
> local news/talkers in 12+? San Diego, Bakersfield, Inland
> Empire (if that counts), etc.

KFI is beaten by the two main talkers, KFMB and KOGO. Even sports XEPRS beats it. KLSD is too new, but appears to be close to beating it, also. The IE (which is not part of the LA market) has no local fulltime talker... just a daytime AA affiliate, and an assortment of brokered and religious stuff... In Bakersfield, all three local talkers beat KFI, which has less than a share point.

KFI has about the same range of ratings this year as they had before the tower came down, too. Bakersfield is just too far away, and SD has strong, local competitors. Only in the competitorless IE does KFI perform as well as it does in LA>
>
> What is this code nonsense? I understand the principle
> behind them and that you can't just go around deviating from
> the law, but just because same wino flew a plane into the
> tower isn't a reason to keep this regional station from
> performing as a Class A.

Allowing a structure to be built in variance makes the municipality jointly liable to any damages caused by out of code problems. Since KFI is by no means unique nor exclusive in serving the LA market, there is no reason to make exceptions to new earthquake and safety codes. KFI will comply, and will probably rebuild the tower where it is right now. But it will be a better tower and will not endanger other lives.

> While I suppose it's not radio
> related, the same should apply, IMHO, to any home or
> building demolished by someone else's incompetence or
> malice. Plus, I miss hearing KFI as clear as it once was
> here in Phoenix.

You are not hearing KFI as well in Phoenix due to the operation of the new facilities of the Parral, Coah., Mexican station which increased day and night power and tears KFI up even as close to LA as Redlands and Moreno Valley.
 
Re: Hello!

>
> What I am stating is something slightly different. I have
> been told, by people inside the LA Clear Channel cluster
> whose names I cannot use here, that the condition of KFI's
> signal and their reduced coverage into San Diego is of some
> concern due to the fact that some buys are placed because
> they penetrate south so well. Orange County and San Diego
> are, after all, quite desirable markets in and of
> themselves, with a large percentage of affluent residents.

Orange County is part of the LA metro survey area, so the numbers from there are part of the LA numbers. There has been no OC breakout since 1994.

KFI's transmitter is in OC, not LA County, if I am not mistaken. If it is not, it is right on the border...so close that the tower could have fallen half into the OC.


> Some advertisers, who have products not constrained to the
> LA metro, like buying KFI because the Southern exposure is,
> to their mind, like getting bonus spots in the south.

Since the OC is part of LA, and KFI has no signal problem there, no seweat. Since CC ownes KOGO in SD, they really don't want the competiton locally.
>
> A good sales department will make hay with every advantage
> they have to offer. A really good salesperson will sell
> coverage outside the licensed metro into heavily populated
> areas, and will pitch this effectively. You see?

But they will not get any extra money for it. I know of a stations that has pretty much been top 5 in the IE for a decade. Never made a cent. Advertisers like the bonus numbers, but there is no way of monetizing the added coverage as the IE is bought as a separate market, as is SD.
>
> For the record, I respect David. And, while I'm about 20
> years shy of his time in the business, I'm a radio
> professional too, thank you, with every bit of it spent here
> in the Southland.

I've only worked here, off and on, since '72. A lot has changed.
 
Re: Hello!

Thank you, KM.

> > I'm sorry, did I err?
>
> No, but the person who used your post to trash David did.
 
Yep.

I think we have a difference of opinion - no, strike that, a difference of perspective - on this subject matter. But I respect your point.

> I've only worked here, off and on, since '72. A lot has changed.

Boy, that's for sure.

- Doc
 
Re: Yep.

> I think we have a difference of opinion - no, strike that, a
> difference of perspective - on this subject matter. But I
> respect your point.

I know when glick was at KOGO, he was rather upset at the Arbitron ascription system that often gave KFI credit for shows he felt were reported in KOGO diaries. In other words, KFI made no money off SD, but cost KOGO money.
 
It's all about money

>
> KFI was the #2 billing station in LA in 2004 and the #4
> biller in the U.S (up from #8 the previous year). That's
> what it's all about! If KFI was the fringe extremist station
> you paint it as they wouldn't be nearly as successful in
> ratings or revenue.
>
Who said feeding red meat to the lions isn't profitable?
 
How can you talk about KFI programming without noting its political slant?

> This is becoming borderline offensive.
>
> Hans, you are twisting this thread into a political
> discussion rather than one about the progress in rebuilding
> KFI's tower.
>
> As you well know, politics are discussed on the Off The Air
> board, not here.
>
> Don't push me. Freddy found out the hard way what happens
> when one does.
>

Using that logic, we should never ever talk about KFI programming because KFI talks about politics.

This thread is about KFI allegedly being a full-service radio station. I merely
challenge the underlying assumption, and am blamed for twisting the conversation into politics.

How can a conversation about KFI's programming and worth to the community not touch on the fact that KFI offends a sizeable portion of its potential listnership on a daily basis?

If that's pushing, then throw your weight around and ban me. Any forum that would censor such innoculous - and OBVIOUS - facts, well, that speaks for itself.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by zumahans1 on 09/05/05 01:14 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Riddle me this, Batman.

Hmm. KFI's programming "offends a sizeable portion of its potential listenership"... and yet it ranks first among all LA talkers and in the Top 5 LA stations.

And does KTLK offend far fewer potential listeners with its programming? If so, why does it barely make LA's Top 30, with a fraction - literally! - of KFI's numbers?

If that's the kind of success being offensive brings, then I'm all for it.

- Doc


> How can a conversation about KFI's programming and worth to
> the community not touch on the fact that KFI offends a
> sizeable portion of its potential listnership on a daily
> basis?
 
Re: How can you talk about KFI programming without noting its political slant?

> > This is becoming borderline offensive.
> >
> > Hans, you are twisting this thread into a political
> > discussion rather than one about the progress in
> rebuilding
> > KFI's tower.
> >
> > As you well know, politics are discussed on the Off The
> Air
> > board, not here.
> >
> > Don't push me. Freddy found out the hard way what happens
>
> > when one does.
> >
>
> Using that logic, we should never ever talk about KFI
> programming because KFI talks about politics.

If you can't discuss KFI's programming without discussing the politics itself, then you have no business attempting to post at all. R-I rule #4.

> This thread is about KFI allegedly being a full-service
> radio station. I merely
> challenge the underlying assumption, and am blamed for
> twisting the conversation into politics.

Because you made it about politics and not about the concept of a full-service radio station.

> How can a conversation about KFI's programming and worth to
> the community not touch on the fact that KFI offends a
> sizeable portion of its potential listnership on a daily
> basis?

You're the one who thinks you're smarter than the rest of us, Hans. How about you think of a way to discuss KFI's programming without interjecting politics? I'm sure you can do it.

> If that's pushing, then throw your weight around and ban me.

If you feel you should be banned, just don't post. BTW, as I have said dozens of times, I don't decide who should be banned, the owners do. I just enforce the rules they make (and which they ban people for refusing to follow).

Hell, you could be banned just for the subject line about "Keeping Fascists Ignorant" if the owners notice it.

> Any forum that would censor such innoculous - and OBVIOUS -
> facts, well, that speaks for itself.

Don't go there. R-I rule #5.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: It's all about money

> Who said feeding red meat to the lions isn't profitable?

Oh, are we feeling squeezed? Poor baby! Next you'll be telling me KFI is part of a "vast right-wing conspiracy".

Like my grandma used to say, "Liars can figure but figures don't lie." KFI is successful because a large number of people like it and write it down. Other implementations of the same format are not as successful when measured by this same methodology; ergo, they are not as popular.

Get used to it.

- Doc
 
Re: How can you talk about KFI programming without noting its political slant?

>
> How can a conversation about KFI's programming and worth to
> the community not touch on the fact that KFI offends a
> sizeable portion of its potential listnership on a daily
> basis?

The music on, let's say, KLOS, offends my ears. That does not mean that I am personally offended by the fact taht KLOS is on the air. I just do not listen to it because I do not like the music.

Same with KFI... it is liked by some, disliked by oters and ignored by most. Just like all radio stations.
 
Find another station

> >
> > How can a conversation about KFI's programming and worth
> to
> > the community not touch on the fact that KFI offends a
> > sizeable portion of its potential listnership on a daily
> > basis?
>
> The music on, let's say, KLOS, offends my ears. That does
> not mean that I am personally offended by the fact taht KLOS
> is on the air. I just do not listen to it because I do not
> like the music.
>
> Same with KFI... it is liked by some, disliked by oters and
> ignored by most. Just like all radio stations.


In fairness, dislike for music, is entirely different from what some might consider hateful, racist, biased commentary on the air.

But KFI obviously has a right to its editorial viewpoint. And, if a person does not like that viewpoint, he or she can select another station, boycott the station's advertisers or even picket the station.

Personally, I would just find another talk station. LA is a virtual "oasis" of radio stations.
 
Re: Riddle me this, Batman.

> Hmm. KFI's programming "offends a sizeable portion of its
> potential listenership"... and yet it ranks first among all
> LA talkers and in the Top 5 LA stations.


To be clear, I never made that statement.

You have me confused with another poster.

Bruce Wayne.
 
Re: Riddle me this, Batman.

Actually, if you look, I posted with this subject line before you did. I was quoting from the TV series, not addressing it to you personally.

- Doc

> > Hmm. KFI's programming "offends a sizeable portion of its
> > potential listenership"... and yet it ranks first among
> all
> > LA talkers and in the Top 5 LA stations.
>
>
> To be clear, I never made that statement.
>
> You have me confused with another poster.
>
> Bruce Wayne.
>
 
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