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KFI's NEUTERED STICK

I think we still have a couple more go arounds, but eventually this may end up in the world of litigation and money, money, money.

CC would be in a better position if ratings and cash flow had tanked after moving to the short antenna. Still this is the difference in value between a Class A AM station and a Class B, which is significant. Moreover, there is no assurance a reduced signal will not eventually harm KFI as a business. It's hugely important to note that presently KFI has protection from interference as a Class A station. If they are downgraded, coverage that is OK now (from the short tower) will be destroyed by new interference allowed towards a Class B station.

Nighttime coverage for nearly all AM stations is determined by interference, and if KFI downgrades, suburban nighttime coverage will eventually have objectionable interference. So it's not a question of whether they can be heard in Phoenix, Arizona, it's a question of whether it can be heard clearly in Palmdale or San Bernardino.

Commentary:

What bugs me most about this is the inconsistent nature of political public policy and opinion. If a beloved yet non-code compliant structure is destroyed in an accident, it will be rebuilt without delay, if the owner was willing.

I don't think a non-compliant structure that is politically incorrect or unpopular should be prohibited from reconstruction after an accident. Fair and equal application of this policy would have a significant effect on real estate and business investment, and harm the economy in many areas. For example, what if several thousand homes destroyed in the wildfires are prohibited from being rebuilt? I expect some may argue for this, but the outcry will be huge and the homes will be rebuilt anyway. Unfortunately KFI does not have this degree of support, although the basic public policy question is the same.

It's correct for new construction to be required to meet today's policies, but existing structures should be allowed to be maintained, repaired or reconstructed in kind, at the discretion of the owner. That's simply the right thing to do, good public policy and good for business. If society doesn't want homes or towers built in bad places, stop new construction. I believe a structure should have the right to exist and recover from accidents or acts of God.

Now let me pose this question... if a plane destroys the tower of a grandfathered Mt. Wilson FM station, should the station be required to rebuild it as a compliant Class B station?

I think the FCC would be reasonable, and understand the difference between an accident or act of God and the willfull action of an owner. There are limits though, one World Trade Center FM had to provide new contour protection when relocating to the Empire State Building.
 
Greg Strickland said:
I think we still have a couple more go arounds, but eventually this may end up in the world of litigation and money, money, money.

CC would be in a better position if ratings and cash flow had tanked after moving to the short antenna. Still this is the difference in value between a Class A AM station and a Class B, which is significant. Moreover, there is no assurance a reduced signal will not eventually harm KFI as a business. It's hugely important to note that presently KFI has protection from interference as a Class A station. If they are downgraded, coverage that is OK now (from the short tower) will be destroyed by new interference allowed towards a Class B station.

Nighttime coverage for nearly all AM stations is determined by interference, and if KFI downgrades, suburban nighttime coverage will eventually have objectionable interference. So it's not a question of whether they can be heard in Phoenix, Arizona, it's a question of whether it can be heard clearly in Palmdale or San Bernardino.

Commentary:

What bugs me most about this is the inconsistent nature of political public policy and opinion. If a beloved yet non-code compliant structure is destroyed in an accident, it will be rebuilt without delay, if the owner was willing.

I don't think a non-compliant structure that is politically incorrect or unpopular should be prohibited from reconstruction after an accident. Fair and equal application of this policy would have a significant effect on real estate and business investment, and harm the economy in many areas. For example, what if several thousand homes destroyed in the wildfires are prohibited from being rebuilt? I expect some may argue for this, but the outcry will be huge and the homes will be rebuilt anyway. Unfortunately KFI does not have this degree of support, although the basic public policy question is the same.

It's correct for new construction to be required to meet today's policies, but existing structures should be allowed to be maintained, repaired or reconstructed in kind, at the discretion of the owner. That's simply the right thing to do, good public policy and good for business. If society doesn't want homes or towers built in bad places, stop new construction. I believe a structure should have the right to exist and recover from accidents or acts of God.

Now let me pose this question... if a plane destroys the tower of a grandfathered Mt. Wilson FM station, should the station be required to rebuild it as a compliant Class B station?

I think the FCC would be reasonable, and understand the difference between an accident or act of God and the willfull action of an owner. There are limits though, one World Trade Center FM had to provide new contour protection when relocating to the Empire State Building.


I don't feel that the FCC should be portrayed as the bad guy here. They would have automatically accepted an application to build and equivalent structure which matched both the physical and electrical properties of the collapsed structure. It is the local cities and the Fullerton Airport who have insisted on involving the FAA and have demanded a tower less than 500' which could not match the requirements to provide KFI with adequate field strength to remain as a class A AM station.

What KFI did do was produce an alternate structure of about 100' less height with a top hat to produce the required field strength and it was accepted by the FCC, they could have said no. I believe it was also accepted by the FAA with the strobe type making lights rather than the original red top beacon and side lights.
This was still not good enough for the locals so they are trying to force the FAA to reconsider.

Because of interference there are not too many locations that they could move to and then there would be similar opposition from the community so it is a sticky situation all around. I do not believe they could find a compatible co-site either so they are pretty much stuck with trying to construct where it was.

Your question about grandfathered FM's is interesting. The only similar scenario I can recall is a religious station in Springfield Ohio that originally had their transmitter on a leased hill top site which was essentially a donation from a supporter. When the gentleman passed away his heirs did not wish to continue with the arrangement so they had to purchase land nearby (or it was donated) and a new tower erected. The problem was that it had been authorized for 77,000 watts ERP but at the time they moved the rules had changed and 50KW was the maximum and so 27,000 watts of Effective Radiated Power for Jesus was lost forever.

The homes will be rebuilt if the owners desire and can afford to, or will be replaced by others because only the local and highly receptive to campaign donations (bribes) politicians have to be involved. And of course there is more popular sentiment for the homeowners, what happens to KFI or the pilots at Fullerton doesn't much impact John Q. Public and will not tug on his heartstrings either.
 
Just a follow up to this discussion. Today's OC Register reported that the FAA will have a ruling by the end of November on whether the planned KFI tower poses a danger to pilots.

The La Mirada Planning Commission which had approved the plan to build the 684 foot tower back in December will meet this Thursday to review the matter again.

So we'll know in a couple of weeks whether KFI gets the tower it needs at the height it needs to be or not.

db
 
So we'll know in a couple of weeks whether KFI gets the tower it needs at the height it needs to be or not.

What happen if it is deemed a hazard?
Do they put the most steel in the air they can get and hope for the best?

I can't see how they can move to another site as there are so many complicated considerations, there would have to be engineering studies, environmental studies, public hearings, with enough red tape to circle the globe many times. All because a private pilot who maybe should not have been flying a plane collided with a perfectly good antenna which had stood since the late 40's.

Maybe the FAA should review whether the Fullerton Airport represents a hazard to the community and it should be shut down, just a thought.
 
nmoore6676 said:
So we'll know in a couple of weeks whether KFI gets the tower it needs at the height it needs to be or not.



Maybe the FAA should review whether the Fullerton Airport represents a hazard to the community and it should be shut down, just a thought.

The FAA does not allow airports to shut down. Ask the City of Bakersfield about their Municipal Airport if you want to know how firm that policy is.
 
The FAA does not allow airports to shut down. Ask the City of Bakersfield about their Municipal Airport if you want to know how firm that policy is.

I did not meant to imply that realistically the shut down would happen. Looking at the situation logically (like Mr. Spock) if the FAA would consider forcing a licensed radio station into operating with a defective antenna for their class, then airport closure should be on the table as well.

I did a quick search of radio tower disasters regarding aircraft in all that I found the majority involved private pilots. After that I think helicopters and then a few military aircraft, probably piloted by young hot shots. I could not find any where a commercial aviation plane was involved. If you further look at the number of crashes into residential neighborhoods the overwhelming majority are again private pilots.

Thus I state that if safety was the primary concern then maybe the airplanes and not the tower is the real issue.
 
I hate Cheap Channel (corporate) as much as anyone else on the
R-I boards, but this about-face which seemingly puts 64/KFI back
on the fast track to restore their 50 gallons is wonderful news.

"This is fifty-thousand watt, clear channel, K...F...I, Los Angeles.
Earle C. Anthony, Incorporated." To which Jazzbo would add:
"At six-four-oh on your ever-lovin' knob."

Now if we can only get an industry-wide termination of I-CRAP
on the fast track, too! 8)
 
nmoore6676 said:
All because a private pilot who maybe should not have been flying a plane collided with a perfectly good antenna which had stood since the late 40's.

Maybe the FAA should review whether the Fullerton Airport represents a hazard to the community and it should be shut down, just a thought.

My thoughts exactly. The problem wasn't KFI's tower, it was a pilot incident. Therefore corrective action should be taken on the pilot and the airport, as they are the cause of the problem to begin with. Pilot error might not be akin to 'an act of God' but it could be argued as 'an act of unintentional sabotage'. So it's nice to hear they're allowing the tower to be rebuilt to an electrically-acceptable level.

Put the bright white strobes on during daytime and stick those orange balls on the guy wires for added visibility. They're on a lot of cellphone towers here in Mississippi to aid the cropdusters, who fly scarily close to them and power lines all day.
 
I think they should have proposed a 1500' Franklin. ;D

The FCC should allow stations hobbled by NIMBY issues to run more power to compensate for the lower efficiency antenna. I mean, if the standard for a Class 1A is field strength, then make field strength the standard, not power out of the coax! This won't help radiation angle issues with shorter towers, but that's moot if you can't get the darn thing built.
 
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