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KFR Cleepy !
- Thread starter airpab
- Start date
The real question is: What in the heck are the fine programmers at KFRC 106.9 trying to prove anyway? I can't stand to listen for more than 10 minutes. Boring radio lives at 106.9 among other once finely programed radio stations in the bay area! KFRC management needs to make a deal with XM Radio's 60's on 6 to use the services of Phlash Phelps for mornings on PHFRC. What do you say XM Radio? As Terry "Motormouth" Young says "We Have A Winner."
I agree with airpab - K-Earth is slick and entertaining - and has a big rating improvement to show for the expanded play list, good jocks, and fun formatics. Granted that they have a much longer and uninterrupted history as an Oldies/Classic Hits outlet than KFRC - they were playing Oldies before most of songs on their current play list were even released (1972 or 73, I think) - but the station was pretty tired and boring just a few years ago before Jhani Kaye took over. In the mid and late 90s, 99.7/KFRC was superior, by far. And it's a small irony that current KFRC afternoon jock Jay Coffey was unable to improve things at KRTH when he was PD a few years ago.
I listen to 106.9 from time to time...it's not a bad station. But KFRC would sound a lot better if they just cloned KRTH.
I listen to 106.9 from time to time...it's not a bad station. But KFRC would sound a lot better if they just cloned KRTH.
RadioStarOne said:
Maybe the format isn't designed for you. Not only that, but maybe they don't want you as a listener because you might skew the demographics in a way they don't want. For instance, if KMEL showed a big bulge in males age 60+ they might be inclined to change something to get rid of that demo.
I've listened to KFRC 106.9 a few times and it sounds okay to me. No, it's not the KFRC of 30 years ago, but that kind of format is gone gone gone.
"KFRC sounded boring Friday?" Could that be because they were into the History of Rock n Roll at 10am?
Or were you even listening?
Another comment, "I can't listen for more than 10 minutes"...yeah, you can really make a judgement call by listening to any station after just 10 minutes...way to go.
"K-EARTH" has more variety?" Really?! The fact really is that KRTH has one of the tightest playlists in the country...if you listened for a 24 hour period you would hear their "powers" repeated at least 4 times that day!
So I guess it just proves, some people on this board just like to talk and don't really know what they are talking about.
Thanks to David Kaye for, more often than not, being a reasonable voice.
Or were you even listening?
Another comment, "I can't listen for more than 10 minutes"...yeah, you can really make a judgement call by listening to any station after just 10 minutes...way to go.
"K-EARTH" has more variety?" Really?! The fact really is that KRTH has one of the tightest playlists in the country...if you listened for a 24 hour period you would hear their "powers" repeated at least 4 times that day!
So I guess it just proves, some people on this board just like to talk and don't really know what they are talking about.
Thanks to David Kaye for, more often than not, being a reasonable voice.
The ratings for KFRC 106.9 tell the tale about how great their current format and personalities are doing. And thats the bottom line. My listening to the station for more than 10 minutes at a time isn't going to sink their boat! That I clearly understand so the reminder was unneeded but thank you anyway! But what about the other millions of possible listeners out there? The hits of the last 40 years are just what they are, slice them up anyway you can but its whats goes on between them that entices and holds the listeners which KFRC is clearly not doing. The ratings are the bottom line and the station and a lot of others are sadly lacking in that regard. Sorry if the truths hurts! What is even sadder is the fact that its not going to get any better either! Especially under the current management which clearly hasn't got a clue!
Norcalvet said: "K-EARTH" has more variety?" Really?! The fact really is that KRTH has one of the tightest playlists in the country...if you listened for a 24 hour period you would hear their "powers" repeated at least 4 times that day! So I guess it just proves, some people on this board just like to talk and don't really know what they are talking about. Thanks to David Kaye for, more often than not, being a reasonable voice."
Thanks for being unnecessarily insulting...not to mention wrong. First, nobody in this thread said K-Earth has more variety - you said that just so you could de-bunk it. Problem is, you're wrong. Maybe you're thinking about the 300 song Mike Phillips K-Earth of a few years ago. I spent a couple of weeks in LA this summer, with KRTH on a good deal of the time in various day parts, and there was very little repetition. I don't know how big their playlist is exactly, but it's much larger than the old K-Earth. The new KFRC's playlist is also longer than a few years ago, and the station deserves credit for that.
But what RadioStarOne said is: "The hits of the last 40 years are just what they are, slice them up anyway you can but its what goes on between them that entices and holds the listeners which KFRC is clearly not doing."
I think that's very true, and it what separates a very entertaining station (KRTH) from one that (in my opinion) is rather dull (KFRC). Not bad...just...ordinary. As for whether KFRC has a younger demo than the "60 year olds" that David Kaye implies listen to KRTH, I can't say. But K-Earth seems to be breathing some serious life into a supposedly dead format, and has good ratings to show for it ...unlike the new KFRC.
Thanks for being unnecessarily insulting...not to mention wrong. First, nobody in this thread said K-Earth has more variety - you said that just so you could de-bunk it. Problem is, you're wrong. Maybe you're thinking about the 300 song Mike Phillips K-Earth of a few years ago. I spent a couple of weeks in LA this summer, with KRTH on a good deal of the time in various day parts, and there was very little repetition. I don't know how big their playlist is exactly, but it's much larger than the old K-Earth. The new KFRC's playlist is also longer than a few years ago, and the station deserves credit for that.
But what RadioStarOne said is: "The hits of the last 40 years are just what they are, slice them up anyway you can but its what goes on between them that entices and holds the listeners which KFRC is clearly not doing."
I think that's very true, and it what separates a very entertaining station (KRTH) from one that (in my opinion) is rather dull (KFRC). Not bad...just...ordinary. As for whether KFRC has a younger demo than the "60 year olds" that David Kaye implies listen to KRTH, I can't say. But K-Earth seems to be breathing some serious life into a supposedly dead format, and has good ratings to show for it ...unlike the new KFRC.
What KFRC could use is about a hundred shots of Howard Hoffman in the evenings. He was a great personality on KFRC and I've got the tapes to prove it too!~
X
XM RADIO
Guest
KFRC IS TERRIBLE!! The only thing worth listening to is Sunday mornings and The Legend None other than John Mack Flanagan,,,I only listen 1 hour a week,,,thats about all i can take and ive listened to radio since 1962,,and The VOICE OVER guy is the most annoying voice Ive ever heard from a VO guy! To not have Bobby Ocean Or JMF doing the VO,,Is a joke! Those two have voices the Bay Area can Identify,,,funny how KRTH has managed to keep Charley Van Dyke happy as their vo guy! LA can identify with him! Its gotta be about money! Even though JMF is doing security and is happy,,,Wow they really blew it by not keeping him in the KFRC family! And for Radiostarone,, Me being a radio buff,,its nice to have Satellite you bet,,Sunday i get an hour of JMF.. Then 2 hours of cousin Brucie on Sirius 6,, then at noon Norm n Nite on Sirius Gold! and at 4 pm Wolfman jack! Real Radio is Back! Cousin Brucie and John Mack Flanagan have one thing in common,,they listen to the listeners,and have a Unique way of doing radio! They have a personality! I believe Cousin brucie isnt real thrilled with CBS! They Lost a Legend to Sirius Kenny in Concord
J
jackfriday
Guest
After reading the postings regarding KFRC and Oldies formats in general, I thought I’d post my recent experience with the format.
First let me say that during my time spent in LA, I had the opportunity to be on KRTH shortly after Jhani Kaye took over as PD. At that time KRTH sounded good and although I haven’t heard the station for over a year, I’m sure it sounds even better and more fine tuned today. I believe the format ‘can’ work and be a positive ratings/revenue stream for any company in any market.
Over the past year, I’ve been a part of a small group of stations that are privately owned and operated in Bend, Oregon by Horizon Broadcasting Group. Not a major market, but one with a demographic spread that certainly reflects the big cities in many respects. This is no ‘hick’ logging town anymore. We have the span of ‘established’ residents in places like Prineville as well as the more sophisticated transplants from Seattle, Portland, LA and San Francisco here as well. The area has been booming over the past 5 years.
The market is over 200,000 and is served by about 15 local radio signals as well as 2 local Television stations. A lot of outlets for this size of market. Penetration that on the ratios, is similar to any ‘big’ city.
My group consists of 5 stations. I am primarily involved with the Oldies station KQAK. I do afternoons and the station is locally populated with talent with the exception of about 3 weekend shifts which are syndicated.
Here’s the good part. KQAK is tied for number two 12+ (Arbitron) with a 7.6 share. The station was also chosen Oregon Broadcasters Station of the Year in 2006. Our Hot AC station KWPK was chosen in 2007. These choices were from all markets within the state of Oregon including Portland. Not a bad accomplishment for a small independent group.
I think we win by being entertaining and involved with our community. We are out in the public view in much the same way that KNBR has a strong visible presence in San Francisco during the NBC owned years. Our music for the most part is good. You can always fine tune and debate flow and song choice and we do too. But I think that equally important is allowing those on the air to adapt to the shift they are doing and relate to the core audience in a personal way. This seemingly forgotten element is so important to the success of ‘any’ station, including the Oldies/Classic Hits formats. We have jocks on the air that are unique to their day part…remember when that used to be done on major market stations? Our morning guy is Jeff Nelson, son of Seattle mainstay for decades Larry Nelson. Larry recently passed away due to cancer. Jeff is funny, bright and entertaining. Midday is handled by a kick back style of Dan Dubay and nights are higher energy with Larry Snider. Do we voice track? You bet (it’s a small market with ‘real’ budget constraints). But we each only track one of the weekend shifts on either Saturday or Sunday and guess what…we all work a 5 day week!
What we end up with is a winning, happy and successful team. Do I sound proud of our accomplishments here in Oregon? I am.
I know you cannot always draw equal comparisons, but I do believe that you CAN do successful Oldies/Classic Rock in San Francisco.
That's my 2 cents.
Jack
First let me say that during my time spent in LA, I had the opportunity to be on KRTH shortly after Jhani Kaye took over as PD. At that time KRTH sounded good and although I haven’t heard the station for over a year, I’m sure it sounds even better and more fine tuned today. I believe the format ‘can’ work and be a positive ratings/revenue stream for any company in any market.
Over the past year, I’ve been a part of a small group of stations that are privately owned and operated in Bend, Oregon by Horizon Broadcasting Group. Not a major market, but one with a demographic spread that certainly reflects the big cities in many respects. This is no ‘hick’ logging town anymore. We have the span of ‘established’ residents in places like Prineville as well as the more sophisticated transplants from Seattle, Portland, LA and San Francisco here as well. The area has been booming over the past 5 years.
The market is over 200,000 and is served by about 15 local radio signals as well as 2 local Television stations. A lot of outlets for this size of market. Penetration that on the ratios, is similar to any ‘big’ city.
My group consists of 5 stations. I am primarily involved with the Oldies station KQAK. I do afternoons and the station is locally populated with talent with the exception of about 3 weekend shifts which are syndicated.
Here’s the good part. KQAK is tied for number two 12+ (Arbitron) with a 7.6 share. The station was also chosen Oregon Broadcasters Station of the Year in 2006. Our Hot AC station KWPK was chosen in 2007. These choices were from all markets within the state of Oregon including Portland. Not a bad accomplishment for a small independent group.
I think we win by being entertaining and involved with our community. We are out in the public view in much the same way that KNBR has a strong visible presence in San Francisco during the NBC owned years. Our music for the most part is good. You can always fine tune and debate flow and song choice and we do too. But I think that equally important is allowing those on the air to adapt to the shift they are doing and relate to the core audience in a personal way. This seemingly forgotten element is so important to the success of ‘any’ station, including the Oldies/Classic Hits formats. We have jocks on the air that are unique to their day part…remember when that used to be done on major market stations? Our morning guy is Jeff Nelson, son of Seattle mainstay for decades Larry Nelson. Larry recently passed away due to cancer. Jeff is funny, bright and entertaining. Midday is handled by a kick back style of Dan Dubay and nights are higher energy with Larry Snider. Do we voice track? You bet (it’s a small market with ‘real’ budget constraints). But we each only track one of the weekend shifts on either Saturday or Sunday and guess what…we all work a 5 day week!
What we end up with is a winning, happy and successful team. Do I sound proud of our accomplishments here in Oregon? I am.
I know you cannot always draw equal comparisons, but I do believe that you CAN do successful Oldies/Classic Rock in San Francisco.
That's my 2 cents.
Jack
"You two cents is richer than gold Jack. Thanks for your thoughts, from a real big league talent who has had the good fortune to link up with real broadcasters. Such folks are a vanishing tribe I am sorry to say. Carter B."
Agreed - thanks for your input, Jack. It's interesting that your oldies station has the KQAK call letters that once belonged to 98.9 "The Quake" in the 80s in San Francisco.
Bend is a very nice area, and a lot of good things to happen there. It sounds like you continue to have a rewarding career - not to mention a pleasant life in a beautiful place.
Agreed - thanks for your input, Jack. It's interesting that your oldies station has the KQAK call letters that once belonged to 98.9 "The Quake" in the 80s in San Francisco.
Bend is a very nice area, and a lot of good things to happen there. It sounds like you continue to have a rewarding career - not to mention a pleasant life in a beautiful place.
Lkeller said:
There once was a philosopher who used the pen name, Bill Drake. In his wisdom he once said, "The music a person listens to at age 16 is the music they like all their life." This seems to have been borne out in radio research quite a bit over the years.
Okay, people who are age 60 today were born in 1948. They were age 16 in.....1964.
Bless 'em if KRTH can get other listeners as well, but times change and musical tastes do, too.
"Okay, people who are age 60 today were born in 1948. They were age 16 in.....1964. Bless 'em if KRTH can get other listeners as well, but times change and musical tastes do, too."
David - I was born in 1952, and just turned 56, so I am 2 years out of the desirable 25-54 demographic for radio advertisers. But the fact is - K-Earth , aside from being a top 10 station overall in the nation's #2 market, also scores well in the desirable 25-54 demo, and is doing much better than KFRC.
Granted, there are other factors at work here - such as KRTH being a heritage station with a format that has been consistent over 30+ years, while KFRC has been inconsistent and on 2 different frequencies over the last 15 years. But the fact you cannot argue with - is that KRTH is a success in despite the supposedly undesirable focus Drake-era formatics, and late 60s hits, while 106.9 KFRC, so far, anyway, is a big fat failure.
You can spin it anyway you want, but that's a fact.
David - I was born in 1952, and just turned 56, so I am 2 years out of the desirable 25-54 demographic for radio advertisers. But the fact is - K-Earth , aside from being a top 10 station overall in the nation's #2 market, also scores well in the desirable 25-54 demo, and is doing much better than KFRC.
Granted, there are other factors at work here - such as KRTH being a heritage station with a format that has been consistent over 30+ years, while KFRC has been inconsistent and on 2 different frequencies over the last 15 years. But the fact you cannot argue with - is that KRTH is a success in despite the supposedly undesirable focus Drake-era formatics, and late 60s hits, while 106.9 KFRC, so far, anyway, is a big fat failure.
You can spin it anyway you want, but that's a fact.
norcalvet said:
Where did you pull that quote from? Nobody said that!
And the fact that a station repeats a song out of a specific group of songs four times a day is not a problem -- if you're listening more than six hours at a time, and it's a song that merits being in that category, what's wrong with that?
I probably listen to KFRC and K-Earth in equal proportion these days (quite a bit), and I think that K-Earth is significantly better -- but KFRC (Version 106.9) is still one of my favorite stations, and I listen to it almost exclusively while driving around.
"And the fact that a station repeats a song out of a specific group of songs four times a day is not a problem -- if you're listening more than six hours at a time, and it's a song that merits being in that category, what's wrong with that?
I probably listen to KFRC and K-Earth in equal proportion these days (quite a bit), and I think that K-Earth is significantly better -- but KFRC (Version 106.9) is still one of my favorite stations, and I listen to it almost exclusively while driving around."
Thanks for the back-up, Boss Radio DJ. But again, not to sound like a broken record - in my 2 week trip to LA this past summer, I had K-Earth on about 75% of the time while traveling in the car - a major amount of time in SoCal considering the distances between places we wanted to be...Orange County, West LA, the San Fernando Valley, etc...many hours spent in the car. My 13 yr old daughter asked for KIIS-FM part of the time (talk about repetition!), but KRTH was on most of the time, and there was VERY LITTLE REPETITION. In that sense, it's a totally different station than the KRTH of a few years ago.
I too listen to KFRC some while driving around in the Bay Area. I also listen to NPR, and some of the HD2 channels, now that I have an HD car tuner. KFRC has a good playlist, but in my opinion, the programming (DJs, formatics, etc.) - the part of the equation that makes it a radio station, not just a juke-box, is mediocre, at best.
I probably listen to KFRC and K-Earth in equal proportion these days (quite a bit), and I think that K-Earth is significantly better -- but KFRC (Version 106.9) is still one of my favorite stations, and I listen to it almost exclusively while driving around."
Thanks for the back-up, Boss Radio DJ. But again, not to sound like a broken record - in my 2 week trip to LA this past summer, I had K-Earth on about 75% of the time while traveling in the car - a major amount of time in SoCal considering the distances between places we wanted to be...Orange County, West LA, the San Fernando Valley, etc...many hours spent in the car. My 13 yr old daughter asked for KIIS-FM part of the time (talk about repetition!), but KRTH was on most of the time, and there was VERY LITTLE REPETITION. In that sense, it's a totally different station than the KRTH of a few years ago.
I too listen to KFRC some while driving around in the Bay Area. I also listen to NPR, and some of the HD2 channels, now that I have an HD car tuner. KFRC has a good playlist, but in my opinion, the programming (DJs, formatics, etc.) - the part of the equation that makes it a radio station, not just a juke-box, is mediocre, at best.
Let's put it like this.....If you listen to KRTH, you can tell that they are in to it, excited about it, committed to the format. The DJ's seem to like it, the audience seems to be connected. It's what radio used to be!
KFRC has the bones to do this, but CBS just doesn't yet, seem to want to put in the time and energy needed to make a 60's/70's format work in the Bay Area! And it clearly comes across on the radio!
Once again, listen to KRTH online and then listen to KFRC. There's no comparison...Music is better, DJ's are in to it and the sound is seamless and flowing. The kind of radio that makes people keep it on during the commercials. That's a successful radio station!
KFRC has the bones to do this, but CBS just doesn't yet, seem to want to put in the time and energy needed to make a 60's/70's format work in the Bay Area! And it clearly comes across on the radio!
Once again, listen to KRTH online and then listen to KFRC. There's no comparison...Music is better, DJ's are in to it and the sound is seamless and flowing. The kind of radio that makes people keep it on during the commercials. That's a successful radio station!
I'm just an observer, really, but it's always occurred to
me that music programmers who think their particular
playlist configuration are all there is to a radio
broadcast are as misguided as Bush in the White House.
I remember KFRC sounded like just another pooped
player in 2001 until Jack Friday cracked a mic there.
The excitement and fun I heard come out out of him
inspired me to go on the air again.
When will we accept that it's only the jocks and
on-air people who can make the content MEAN something
and thus come alive. Not the corporate suits. Not the
playlist. Not the frequency. Not the prizes. It's only
those who are actively on the air, communicating, who
make it happen. Or not.
Whether it's KFRC, KRTH, KOIT (with their format put in
place by Mike Phillips decades ago that still snaps) or
KOST-- without customized-to-the-market presentation built
on proper framing and operated within a current context,
(Mr. Program Director/Operations Manager or Whetever-corporate-shoe-
fits): you're just the next door kid's iPod.
And when was the last time you really wanted to see
the neighbor's vacation pictures?
me that music programmers who think their particular
playlist configuration are all there is to a radio
broadcast are as misguided as Bush in the White House.
I remember KFRC sounded like just another pooped
player in 2001 until Jack Friday cracked a mic there.
The excitement and fun I heard come out out of him
inspired me to go on the air again.
When will we accept that it's only the jocks and
on-air people who can make the content MEAN something
and thus come alive. Not the corporate suits. Not the
playlist. Not the frequency. Not the prizes. It's only
those who are actively on the air, communicating, who
make it happen. Or not.
Whether it's KFRC, KRTH, KOIT (with their format put in
place by Mike Phillips decades ago that still snaps) or
KOST-- without customized-to-the-market presentation built
on proper framing and operated within a current context,
(Mr. Program Director/Operations Manager or Whetever-corporate-shoe-
fits): you're just the next door kid's iPod.
And when was the last time you really wanted to see
the neighbor's vacation pictures?
skyrocker said:
I think a lot of things contribute to a successful format, which is why it's still an art form and not a science. I mean, heck, the KFRC of the 60s and 70s glowed, even when saddled with such recording artists as Bobby Sherman, David Cassidy, and the Bay City Rollers. Sometimes they played some positively hideous songs. But, yes, the format worked because the DJs loved what they were doing.
But that was a current hits station. There was something to get excited about: fresh (!) music. There was always a new Top 30 just around the bend. Try to get excited about songs that have been played hundreds of times before since God was a boy, and that's a major acting challenge for even the best DJs of the world.
Okay, let's say KRTH is doing it. How are they doing it? Well, we've always recognized that what works in LA doesn't work in SF and vice versa, likewise NY. In NY reverb under the DJ was the big thing. In LA, the tight-throated "Hollywood hype" sound worked. But in SF, with a few exceptions, a more laid back (dare I say "more genuine"?) approach worked better. Well, maybe KRTH works because people in LA are used to copter chases and Hollywood hype. Would that translate to SF? Probably not very well.
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