KFRC-AM

[michael hagerty]

I actually kind of like hearing the calls, Llew...and at least they're associated with a class product.

That top of the hour ID is worthy of KFRC, too....immaculately produced, brilliantly voiced and written as a mission statement and promotional positioner every bit as strong as KFRC's old "Station of the Year".

"What's happening and why. KCBS AM and HD. KFRC FM and HD-1. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose." I've been hearing it daily for a year and I'm still not tired of it.

For those who haven't heard it: http://www.tophour.com/audio/San%20Francisco-San%20Jose%20CA/am0740_2011-01_kcbs_nfuentes.mp3

As for 610 as a music station....that was over a long time ago. The oldies simulcast of the 90s got an 0.8 on the AM side the first year, then went to "immeasurably small" the next seven years. It managed a 1.0 in 2002, but that's almost 13 years ago.

The truth of the matter is that KFRC as a Top 40 was in trouble from '78 on....its trend from '77 through '85 was 7.7-5.4-4.8-5.1-4.0-3.6-3.1-1.8.

Magic 61 took a while to build, but wound up with some great numbers from '86-'92....2.2-3.5-3.1-3.6-5.0-4.3-4.2...but was just too tough a sell demographically.

If it was, nobody would be listening, though it would be nice to have the Classic Hits FM back. In it's prime in the late 90s and early 00s, the station had a decently large playlist, they played "12 in a row" for awhile, and had good on-air personalities (Cammy Blackstone excepted) like Bobby Ocean, Sue Hall, JD, and a few others. IMO, it was a more entertaining station than iHeart's current Big 103.7

I was riding with a friend yesterday, and he had KCBS on. It's still jarring to hear that top-of-the-hour ID on an all news station; "KCBS AM and HD1, KFRC-FM, and HD1, San Francisco..."

 

[semoochie]

I actually kind of like hearing the calls, Llew...and at least they're associated with a class product.

That top of the hour ID is worthy of KFRC, too....immaculately produced, brilliantly voiced and written as a mission statement and promotional positioner every bit as strong as KFRC's old "Station of the Year".

"What's happening and why. KCBS AM and HD. KFRC FM and HD-1. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose." I've been hearing it daily for a year and I'm still not tired of it.

For those who haven't heard it: http://www.tophour.com/audio/San%20Francisco-San%20Jose%20CA/am0740_2011-01_kcbs_nfuentes.mp3

As for 610 as a music station....that was over a long time ago. The oldies simulcast of the 90s got an 0.8 on the AM side the first year, then went to "immeasurably small" the next seven years. It managed a 1.0 in 2002, but that's almost 13 years ago.

The truth of the matter is that KFRC as a Top 40 was in trouble from '78 on....its trend from '77 through '85 was 7.7-5.4-4.8-5.1-4.0-3.6-3.1-1.8.

Magic 61 took a while to build, but wound up with some great numbers from '86-'92....2.2-3.5-3.1-3.6-5.0-4.3-4.2...but was just too tough a sell demographically.

It's the Game Zone that really killed KFRC. Without it, they might have made it to the end of the decade.

 

[michael hagerty]

It's the Game Zone that really killed KFRC. Without it, they might have made it to the end of the decade.

Nah. Look at the trend:

1978: 7.7
1979: 5.4
1980: 4.8
1981: 5.1
1982: 4.0
1983: 3.6
1984: 3.1

Yeah, '85 and the Game Zone took them to a 1.8 next, but apart from 1981, KFRC was in free-fall for seven years, its numbers cut by more than half by 1984. That's death and that's why RKO was desperate enough to try something so far out of the box.

 

[michael hagerty]

Looks like the link I posted for the KCBS/KFRC legal ID doesn't translate. Just as well...they've updated the sound of it just a bit. Here's the most recent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8PBJGaDobQ

 

[semoochie]

Nah. Look at the trend:

1978: 7.7
1979: 5.4
1980: 4.8
1981: 5.1
1982: 4.0
1983: 3.6
1984: 3.1

Yeah, '85 and the Game Zone took them to a 1.8 next, but apart from 1981, KFRC was in free-fall for seven years, its numbers cut by more than half by 1984. That's death and that's why RKO was desperate enough to try something so far out of the box.

You're probably right. Then again, given the topography of the Bay Area and San Francisco in particular, it may have leveled off at 3.1 or there about and with KFRC's demographics, that's not bad for an AM, even then.

 

[MarioMania]

What's the Game Zone you speak of?

 

[K.M. Richards]

What's the Game Zone you speak of?

Aren't you lucky to not know. Some of us have painful memories of listening to it.

The best description of it is in this Broadcasting article from June, 1989 (some four years after the fact):
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/Archive-BC-IDX/89-OCR/BC-1989-06-12-OCR-Page-0036.pdf

It dragged the ratings to an all-time low (despite RKO trying to put a damage control spin on it in the above article) and it was painful to listen to.

 

[MarioMania]

When I saw The Game Zone, I'm thinking of Video Games of the 80s

 

[michael hagerty]

You're probably right. Then again, given the topography of the Bay Area and San Francisco in particular, it may have leveled off at 3.1 or there about and with KFRC's demographics, that's not bad for an AM, even then.

Even if that were possible (and I don't think it was) there is no business case for running a station with a 3.1 that was a 7.7 five years earlier at anything near the level of talent and promotion that made you a hit. There would have been noticeable cuts that likely would have cost the station still more listenership.

And terrain is a major red herring. When KFRC went to the Game Zone, there's no evidence the audience found another AM to listen to. They went to FM.

 

[semoochie]

Even if that were possible (and I don't think it was) there is no business case for running a station with a 3.1 that was a 7.7 five years earlier at anything near the level of talent and promotion that made you a hit. There would have been noticeable cuts that likely would have cost the station still more listenership.

And terrain is a major red herring. When KFRC went to the Game Zone, there's no evidence the audience found another AM to listen to. They went to FM.

Last night, I attempted to respond to this post and the site wouldn't accept my sign-in, which was either a problem with the site or with my computer not relating to the site. I'll try again. Since virtually their entire audience was within desirable demographics, an overall three share was pretty good for an AM, even in 1985. I would certainly not expect KFRC's audience to find another AM station, since the only remaining major AM CHR was KIMN Denver. For quite awhile, three remained. WLS was the first to go.

 

[K.M. Richards]

When I saw The Game Zone, I'm thinking of Video Games of the 80s

I'd be interested in knowing why you thought we were discussing video games in a thread about KFRC, Mario.

 

[K to The X]

I was thrilled to check in here and see folks talking about KFRC's Game Zone. As one of the very, very few left in the Bay Area who had a hand in this programming, I'd like to share some insights.

I had been at KFRC since 1984. No one (except high level staff) knew about this change. Most of us were informed just a week before it was to happen. When Pat Norman (GM) and Mike Phillips (program director) announced it at a staff meeting, the reaction was "cool" at best. Obviously, especially to the long timers, it was the realization that the legendary KFRC was coming to an end, even though, with the departure of Gerry Cagel in 1984, the end was on everyone's mind.

It seems like there was no real set plan for executing this programming. They had already contract with famous game show announcers to do the bumpers/intros for various games (Johnny Olsen, Monty Hall, Wink Martindale) and the basic idea of the games were in place. That was about it.

The staff that oversaw the Game Zone weres the "hit liners" (people who answered the request lines) and the music researchers, who became trivia questions writers. As I was a game show fan, I wrote all the trivia for the first week of shows. All sorts of info books, encyclopedias and such were purchased. The makers of a San Francisco trivia board game threatend to sure KFRC because they thought we had stolen some of their questions (we never had even hard of that game!).

The weekend before debut is when the technical elements were tested. Being the mid 1980's, "technical" was not what we think of today. It mainly consisted of sound effects and a new computer (a Tandy?) so the scores could be kept track of.

The shows went from 9 am - 3 pm and were a mixed lot. I don't remember them all but some highlights (low lights?) were:

Dear Duke - A "Dear Abby" call in show hosted by Dave "The Duke" Sholin. This started the day at 9 am. People called in with problems and listeners were asked to call in with solutions with the best one winning a prize. Because, on the first day, people didn't know what the Game Zone was, I was the first caller and made up a story about being picked up by an older women in an elevator. This show didn't last the whole run of the GZ as Dave, who is a great guy, and this format were not a great match.

(Something) Bowling - I want to say "Business Bowling" but that seems really dumb. It was a fun game where two businesses answered trivia and then got to go bowling. This was achieved by the person pressing a random touch-tone phone number which would trigger a cart (yes..CART!!) which then rolled the ball. After the hitting of the pins effect, you found how many you hit down. While it may sound cheesy, it was the favorite of most listeners.

Showbiz Showdown - Just what it sounds like...all show biz trivia.

Jukebox (Something) - a music trivia show.

The $64,000 Challenge - Unlike the other easier trivia games, this one required a more "Jeopardy" kinda intellect. It's also interesting that this game survived past the end of the Game Zone and became a 9 pm part of Magic 61 (the next incarnation of KFRC).

I was the first producer of this game and finding those who possessed the required knowledge ability was...no pun..a challenge. Interested players first called a voice mail to leave their names and phone numbers for possible screening. We were flooded with applicants.

Each day, I spent about 5 hours calling folks and asking them some qualifying questions. At first, they were rather difficult. I wasn't finding a lot of possible contestants. We then made a few of the qualifying questions easier (What writer goes by the nickname "The Bard"?). If they couldn't get the easy ones, they didn't advance. Once a contestant was selected, they had to come to the KFRC studios (415 Bush Street) to play live. There was no limit on how many days winners could play so some folks came for weeks! The most successful winners went into a final competition to win $64,000.

There was also a game show called "Celebrity" something that involved playing with a celeb. The first show featured Huey Lewis. Others had Brooke Shields, Joan Rivers, and Rick Springfield. But the challenge of having celebs lined up every day became impossible and lead to unknown authors and comedians as the "celebrities."

All in all, it was fantastic that RKO took such a chance on something new and innovative. They spent the money to make it happen. In fact, they spent more money on prizes than anything else! They had planned on getting prizes on trade from major companies (like TV game shows), but that proved not to be the case early on. So, KFRC went out and bought prizes, especially gift certificates. I remember being given $2,000 and told to go out and buy certificates at Safeway, Consumer Distributor (remember that?), Sears, Victoria Station (remember THAT?), Rainbow Records and other places.

There was a lot of advertising with Coke sponsoring a truck sign campaign on their vehicles. There was TV ad featuring (I think) Wink Martindale. There were t shirts made for every game show and given away as parting prizes (luckily, I still have mine).

In hind site, Walter Sabo (RKO chief programmer) thought that it would have worked if the games were not for six continuous hours.

Did it work? No. But it was an exciting, fun and once-in-a-lifetime ride that I have treasured for these 30 years. It was fun. We made people happy. Isn't that what radio should do?

K to the X

(and there are more stories about a radio station with an X)

 

[michael hagerty]

Last night, I attempted to respond to this post and the site wouldn't accept my sign-in, which was either a problem with the site or with my computer not relating to the site. I'll try again. Since virtually their entire audience was within desirable demographics, an overall three share was pretty good for an AM, even in 1985. I would certainly not expect KFRC's audience to find another AM station, since the only remaining major AM CHR was KIMN Denver. For quite awhile, three remained. WLS was the first to go.

Semoochie:

Anyone who forecasts performance would look at the trends and see a huge drop (7.7-5.4) from 1978-1979, followed by a drop of 0.6 from 1979-80 (5.4-4.8), the only uptick of the seven year period (4.8-5.1) from 1980-81, followed by a 1.1 drop. If the uptick was a fluke or diary wobble, and that's not unreasonable to assume, then the drop from 4.8 in 1980 to 4.0 in 1982 could be considered a 0.4 drop in each of those two years (1981 and 1982). Then, another 0.4 drop in 1983, to a 3.6, followed by a 0.5 drop to a 3.1 in 1984.

So the pattern is:

Down 2.3
Down 1.1
Down 0.6
Up 0.3
Down 1.1
Down 0.4
Down 0.6

There's no suggestion of leveling off there. In fact, the last decline was worse than the one before it. Far more likely is that the decline would continue. Figure another half point, give or take, which would have them in the 2.5-2.7 range, which could have put them out of the top 10. With KYUU, K-101 and KMEL all playing hits on FM as of the summer of '84, KFRC simply had no breathing room.

 

[semoochie]

Semoochie:

Anyone who forecasts performance would look at the trends and see a huge drop (7.7-5.4) from 1978-1979, followed by a drop of 0.6 from 1979-80 (5.4-4.8), the only uptick of the seven year period (4.8-5.1) from 1980-81, followed by a 1.1 drop. If the uptick was a fluke or diary wobble, and that's not unreasonable to assume, then the drop from 4.8 in 1980 to 4.0 in 1982 could be considered a 0.4 drop in each of those two years (1981 and 1982). Then, another 0.4 drop in 1983, to a 3.6, followed by a 0.5 drop to a 3.1 in 1984.

So the pattern is:

Down 2.3
Down 1.1
Down 0.6
Up 0.3
Down 1.1
Down 0.4
Down 0.6

There's no suggestion of leveling off there. In fact, the last decline was worse than the one before it. Far more likely is that the decline would continue. Figure another half point, give or take, which would have them in the 2.5-2.7 range, which could have put them out of the top 10. With KYUU, K-101 and KMEL all playing hits on FM as of the summer of '84, KFRC simply had no breathing room.

I don't disagree with anything you say. I just think they bailed out too soon. Probably the biggest mistake was not evolving to AC after Top 40 naturally moved in that direction in 1980-81. Of course, nothing they could've done, would've kept it going much longer. When I suggested that they might make it to the end of the decade, it was wishful thinking, based on the idea that they wouldn't lose more than another half share and stay there for awhile. I was really playing a game of "what if", which should fit right in with "The Game Zone".

 

[K.M. Richards]

When I suggested that they might make it to the end of the decade, it was wishful thinking, based on the idea that they wouldn't lose more than another half share and stay there for awhile.

Sadly, the history of radio is full of failed stations and formats that held on too long due to wishful thinking. But it is understandable because human nature is to hold on to something until it is painfully obvious that doing so is no longer the wise option. That is the case with everything, not just with radio.

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't disagree with anything you say. I just think they bailed out too soon. Probably the biggest mistake was not evolving to AC after Top 40 naturally moved in that direction in 1980-81. Of course, nothing they could've done, would've kept it going much longer. When I suggested that they might make it to the end of the decade, it was wishful thinking, based on the idea that they wouldn't lose more than another half share and stay there for awhile. I was really playing a game of "what if", which should fit right in with "The Game Zone".

I get it. Looking at the numbers, they were in a pickle. KGO had talk locked up, KCBS the same with news. K-101 and KYUU were doing very well with AC on FM in '80-'81, so KFRC probably would have simply split the already shrinking numbers that KNBR had for AC on AM.

Actually, what would have worked at that point...and would have given them about 10 years worth of decent billings before the demographics became too tough, would have been to do the Magic 61 format then....five years earlier than they actually did. That's about the time KSFO's traditional audience was bailing out and KFRC could have been there to catch them.

 

[semoochie]

I get it. Looking at the numbers, they were in a pickle. KGO had talk locked up, KCBS the same with news. K-101 and KYUU were doing very well with AC on FM in '80-'81, so KFRC probably would have simply split the already shrinking numbers that KNBR had for AC on AM.

Actually, what would have worked at that point...and would have given them about 10 years worth of decent billings before the demographics became too tough, would have been to do the Magic 61 format then....five years earlier than they actually did. That's about the time KSFO's traditional audience was bailing out and KFRC could have been there to catch them.

I was thinking KFRC would evolve to AC, keeping the same personalities and basic sound. This is what KGW Portland did, without dropping from the #1 spot. Of course, they tripped up later, with a handful of miscalculations but that's another story. Speaking of KGW, one of their incarnations was Full Service AC, competing directly with KEX. They got a four share, right out of the box but decided the audience was too old and switched back to Contemporary. If they'd stayed with it, they might still be around, having evolved to News/Talk.

 

[michael hagerty]

I was thinking KFRC would evolve to AC, keeping the same personalities and basic sound. This is what KGW Portland did, without dropping from the #1 spot. Of course, they tripped up later, with a handful of miscalculations but that's another story. Speaking of KGW, one of their incarnations was Full Service AC, competing directly with KEX. They got a four share, right out of the box but decided the audience was too old and switched back to Contemporary. If they'd stayed with it, they might still be around, having evolved to News/Talk.

Semoochie:

KGW had a similar trajectory to KFRC in those years, losing more than half their audience (13.4 in 1978 to 6.4 in 1984)...they just had almost double the number to start with.

 

[semoochie]

Semoochie:

KGW had a similar trajectory to KFRC in those years, losing more than half their audience (13.4 in 1978 to 6.4 in 1984)...they just had almost double the number to start with.

Yes, but that 6.4 was heavily 25-54. Thank you for that. I didn't realize there was a continual decrease in KGW's ratings, before things started to fall apart, around '85 or so. I kept all the ratings reports at one time. I was going to apologize for getting off topic but it occurred to me that for some time, they were programmed by Mike Phillips! and also employed Tom Parker, among others.

 

[LKellerIII]

No offense to K to the X, but to me, The Game Zone was unlistenable - lots of game show style noise and fake suspense because some caller might win a toaster oven. Gave me a headache.

To me, the death of The KFRC (original Top 40 - not the Oldies station) is the result of RKO General's stupid decision to sell 106.1 in 1977. It took (IIRC) about 7 years for KMEL to switch from AOR to the "All Hit" format which was the final nail in KFRC's coffin, along with the other nails - K-101, KYUU, and Hot Hits KITS to a lesser extent.

I've never been in the radio biz, but it was pretty clear to me by 1977 that FM was the future - most everybody I knew in my age-group (baby boomers), had abandoned AM for music a few years before 77. K-101 in particular, was getting solid ratings in the early 70s...though their format at the time was closer to "chicken-rock" than real Top 40. I realize that there was still some hope at that time for AM stereo, but for the most part, the ship had sailed.

RKO never seemed to know what to do with 106.1. IIRC, they simulcast Dr. Don Rose, but otherwise ran poorly executed automated pop formats - "K-106" being the worst. Even in those days, with FCC rules about simulcasting, the smart thing would have been to put the same Big 610 format on the FM, and simulcast as many hours as were then allowed.