KFRC Audio

[greenie]

How does their over the air audio sound? Is it up there with say KGO for quality?

 

[blackhole]

How does their over the air audio sound? Is it up there with say KGO for quality?

Would it be fair to say "apples and oranges"? KGO being talk doesn't need to be great in quality since you aren't listening to the musical quality of instruments and voices. KGO's signal is MUCH better than 1550's, but as an earlier post alluded to, Phil Lerza, cheif Engineer for the station may have tweaked the sound so it could sound as good as possible on that signal. I've listened...it's definitely AM, and I am sure there are AM connoisseurs out there that could put in their 2 cents.

 

[calguy]

I'm sure that the CBS engineers will do a good job, but it will NEVER sound as good as KFRC did when it was at 610. They were low on the dial, had no one on adjacent frequencies and no station on 610 for thousands of miles. Plus they had a ground system sitting in salt water. There were so many reasons that KFRC sounded as good as it did at 610 and that includes the best equipment and engineering. At 1550 it will be difficult, but they can at least sound clean....

 

[DaveBayArea]

How does their over the air audio sound? Is it up there with say KGO for quality?

I finally got a chance to hook up a wideband receiver yesterday and check it out on some good monitors. This is in Newark, so I'm off the side of the directional pattern but I wasn't impressed with the audio. KGO has a much more crisp sound, the silibance response on the voice is there, but not overpowering. I don't hear any of that on KFRC. By comparison, the audio on 1550 is dull - like listening on a phone line. Again, I'm not in the main lobe of their pattern so there might have been some transmission bandwidth issues, but it sounded the same day or night, so I don't think so.

This same setup used to sound surprisingly good on the old KABL AM. So I know good sound is possible on AM. But I really don't think anyone cares any more.

I'm assuming this question was about AM. KFRC-FM seems to be much better than it was, although you can still hear some differences between various sources.

Dave B.

 

[radio dx]

KFRC sounds a little "cleaner" but if I go south of the San Jose airport forget it. I get a stronger singnal out of my cordless home phone.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

I'm sure that the CBS engineers will do a good job, but it will NEVER sound as good as KFRC did when it was at 610. They were low on the dial, had no one on adjacent frequencies and no station on 610 for thousands of miles.

Minor quibbling here:

KFRC/610 had KAVL down in Lancaster (only about 300 miles away) on the same frequency, as well as KONA in Pasco, Wash. (about 700 miles away), when I was a Boy DXer listening back in the 1970s, according to the notes in my Vane Jones Log from Way Back When.

(No, it doesn't have cave paintings.)

On adjacent frequencies: how about KOGO/San Diego on 600 and KNGS/Hanford on 620 on the first adjacents?

...Plus they had a ground system sitting in salt water.

To be exact, the 610 AM (and 1400) ground system on Ashby in Berkeley is not in/under salt water; the great majority of it is under the building, parking lot and the vacant (dry) land around the tower. In fact, the tower ain't in/on the water, either. Near it, yes. But not in it.

Here's a recent photo of the base of the 610 tower in Berkeley:

http://www.bayarearadio.org/kre/images/kre_tower-base_2008.png

On the other hand, the 1550 AM plant is sitting in marshland along the Bayshore Freeway. I visited the site many years ago (and tried to break in errrr, visit it last summer with the great Bill Earl, but failed), and the location is as swampy as any you'll find in these parts, which should be a positive.

Back in the '70s, I used to listen to classical music on KKHI/1550 because the sound quality was excellent, and because I couldn't get KKHI-FM/95.7 worth a dang over in Fremont.

Here's an old-timey shot of the 1550 facility in San Mateo back in the KKHI days:

http://www.bayarearadio.org/stn_photos/kkhi_xmtr-site-photo.shtml

(Cue Lenhockey, who will talk about playing checkers with Beethoven while they waited for Marconi to invent radio so that the Classical Music format could be created!)

 

[djj]

KFRC/610 had KAVL down in Lancaster (only about 300 miles away) on the same frequency, as well as KONA in Pasco, Wash. (about 700 miles away), when I was a Boy DXer listening back in the 1970s, according to the notes in my Vane Jones Log from Way Back When.

Let's not forget 610 in Medford, Oregon, which was "AM Stereo 610 KYJC" in the 1980s/90s,
before going Spanish in the 2000s as KRTA. I think it used to be a 5,000-watt day/1,000-watt
night station before going the 2,500/5,000 route...
http://www.recnet.com/cdbs/fmq.php?...ountry=US&zip=&party=&party_type=LICEN&jaws=0
--jay

 

[calguy]

I'm sure that the CBS engineers will do a good job, but it will NEVER sound as good as KFRC did when it was at 610. They were low on the dial, had no one on adjacent frequencies and no station on 610 for thousands of miles.

Minor quibbling here:

KFRC/610 had KAVL down in Lancaster (only about 300 miles away) on the same frequency, as well as KONA in Pasco, Wash. (about 700 miles away), when I was a Boy DXer listening back in the 1970s, according to the notes in my Vane Jones Log from Way Back When.

(No, it doesn't have cave paintings.)

On adjacent frequencies: how about KOGO/San Diego on 600 and KNGS/Hanford on 620 on the first adjacents?

...Plus they had a ground system sitting in salt water.

To be exact, the 610 AM (and 1400) ground system on Ashby in Berkeley is not in/under salt water; the great majority of it is under the building, parking lot and the vacant (dry) land around the tower. In fact, the tower ain't in/on the water, either. Near it, yes. But not in it.

Here's a recent photo of the base of the 610 tower in Berkeley:

http://www.bayarearadio.org/kre/images/kre_tower-base_2008.png

On the other hand, the 1550 AM plant is sitting in marshland along the Bayshore Freeway. I visited the site many years ago (and tried to break in errrr, visit it last summer with the great Bill Earl, but failed), and the location is as swampy as any you'll find in these parts, which should be a positive.

Back in the '70s, I used to listen to classical music on KKHI/1550 because the sound quality was excellent, and because I couldn't get KKHI-FM/95.7 worth a dang over in Fremont.

Here's an old-timey shot of the 1550 facility in San Mateo back in the KKHI days:

http://www.bayarearadio.org/stn_photos/kkhi_xmtr-site-photo.shtml

(Cue Lenhockey, who will talk about playing checkers with Beethoven while they waited for Marconi to invent radio so that the Classical Music format could be created!)

Well you got me there, though I got my info from a former KFRC jock, guess he didn't know his own facility. As for 610, I'm wondering how many others on that frequency were sporting big signals and when did they go on the air? Back in the 70's I recall a station in Montana, KOJM and another in New Mexico at 610, but was not aware of the others you've brought up back then. Yes KOGO is adjacent, but a good 500 miles away and I never found it interfering with KFRC. There are more AM's on the dial now than there were 30 years ago when KFRC was dominating the Bay Area and I'm sure a few on adjacent freq's have appeared in the 80's and 90's... But I could be wrong and will be the first to admit when I am. Good info BossRadioDJ and djj, thanks. Calguy

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Well you got me there, though I got my info from a former KFRC jock, guess he didn't know his own facility. As for 610, I'm wondering how many others on that frequency were sporting big signals and when did they go on the air? Back in the 70's I recall a station in Montana, KOJM and another in New Mexico at 610, but was not aware of the others you've brought up back then. Yes KOGO is adjacent, but a good 500 miles away and I never found it interfering with KFRC.... But I could be wrong and will be the first to admit when I am. Good info BossRadioDJ and djj, thanks. Calguy

KAVL and KONA were on the air in the 1970s; according to my copy of White's Radio Log, 1963 Edition, KAVL (Lancaster; 1 kW), KVNU (Logan, UT; 5 kW) and KEPR (Kennewick, WA; 5 kW) -- plus CJAT (Trail, BC; 1 kW) -- were broadcasting on 610 AM at that time.

Here's another shot of the KFRC/1550 transmitter site from the website of the great Phil Lerza:

http://www.lerza.com/kycy-am.htm

Because I knew you wanted to see it.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

Wasn't the 610 tower somewhere in the city before moving to the KRE site? How long has it been at the 1400 site?

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Wasn't the 610 tower somewhere in the city before moving to the KRE site? How long has it been at the 1400 site?

This was being discussed in another thread on this board a day or three ago...

DJ

 

[DanStrassberg]

To be exact, the 610 AM (and 1400) ground system on Ashby in Berkeley is not in/under salt water; the great majority of it is under the building, parking lot and the vacant (dry) land around the tower. In fact, the tower ain't in/on the water, either. Near it, yes. But not in it.

Here's a recent photo of the base of the 610 tower in Berkeley:

http://www.bayarearadio.org/kre/images/kre_tower-base_2008.png

Your photo almost guarantees that 610/1400 do indeed have a salt-water ground. If you look closely (well, not all THAT closely), you will see where the radials are buried. They appear to go right up to the water's edge, but the water's edge is no quarter of a wavelength from the tower base--even at 1400. So almost for certain, the radials continue beyond the water's edge down into the Bay. Yes, some stations do have towers that stand on piers that are immersed in salt water (KNEW is one), but what your photo shows is a very good, albeit somewhat less expensive and troublesome, approximation. Also, I assume that the large concrete base that your photo shows becomes almost fully immersed during abnormally high tides.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Your photo almost guarantees that 610/1400 do indeed have a salt-water ground. If you look closely (well, not all THAT closely), you will see where the radials are buried. They appear to go right up to the water's edge, but the water's edge is no quarter of a wavelength from the tower base--even at 1400.

Dan,

Note that I didn't say they don't have a salt-water ground. I said the MAJORITY of the ground system is under the building, parking lot and the vacant (dry) land around the tower. Yes, part of it extends into the water, but the MAJORITY doesn't.

If you've ever been to the site, you can see -- in the large parking lot -- where the "cuts" for the ground radials are.

Beyond that (and I'm speculating here, but it'll be a pretty good guess), I'm thinking that whatever radials extend into Lake Limburger may have been subjected to extensive corrosion.

Since none of us has anything better to do, take a peek at Google Maps for the KRE building. If you click on the "Street View," you'll get a panoramic view of wonderful KRE, and can clearly see the ground radial "cuts" in the parking lot.

Sidebar: not having tasted the water in the south end of lovely Lake Limburger lately, I could not vouch for the saline content or quality. Calling it "water" is a stretch during most of the year.

Also, I assume that the large concrete base that your photo shows becomes almost fully immersed during abnormally high tides.

It can get "ankle deep," but not fully immersed, if you're using the term to mean that it is completely under water. It has happened on rare occasions, even to the point of the parking lot being under water, but the City of Berkeley has worked to improve the drainage from the Lake (Aquatic Park) into the Bay to control both the flooding and the quality of the water itself.

 

[djj]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch regards 1550 KC's audio:

I took a drive this evening at 8:20 in the North/East Bay to hear how KFRC sounds. Since the
switch to the TOC 1/1/09, 1550 sounds brighter in North Napa while driving South on Hwy 29.
Turning to the first-adjacents, KNZR 1560 (Bakersfield) gets singed by KFRC's audio - especially
during "Beginnings" by Chicago at 8:30. 1540 KMPC (Los Angeles), whose signal is weaker than
KNZS', gets a little KFRC interference, also...

Upon heading east on Highway 12, I hit all sorts of apparent nulls and other irritants near the
Napa/Solano County Line, and the 1550 signal goes WAY down...KFRC is much weaker in Cordelia,
Benicia and Vallejo, at least in the car...

Since the signal shoots due north toward Redding and Medford's direction, I imagine the signal
is stronger in Marin County west of me, and is still dead at night in San Jose. The signal is okay
in the car in Napa at night, but not at home, as my Sangean HD radio can only muster an SSI
1 or 2 out of 18...it's better to "DX" 1550 in Napa on a G.E. SuperRadio or equivalent receiver...

Sounds like Phil Lerza's done all he can with the 10-kw directional - 1550 sounds brighter, at
least in Napa - and NO IBOC, thank gawd. Too bad AM-Stereo is, for all intents and purposes,
dead...KFRC would sound good on C-QUAM...

I'll take a drive to Sonoma and Novato tomorrow evening for further listening...
--jay

 

[W6WLS]

I must say, I like this kind of "play by play" report, (or signal by location) sure beats me giving it a whirl.

I would be very interested to know by comparison, how the 1550 signal compares with the 610 signal,
had they never left, and with the fact KFRC-1550 is 15,000 watts and KEAR-610 is 5000 watts.
What I'm saying, is the 610 signal just as good no matter where you go to test the 1550?

Being down in Scotts Valley/Santa Cruz 1550 is none usable, bummer.
Mike~

 

[djj]

I wasn't able to get to Novato, but I did drive to Bodega Bay today/tonight to hear 1550, a.o.,
via my Honda Civic stock radio, which has very-good AM reception...

In the afternoon, 1550 is very good in mid- and East-Sonoma, but gets poorer once you leave
Petaluma. Heading west to the Ocean, KFRC starts losing its "punch"...

Judging from the night reception (6:30 to 7 p.m.), KFRC 1550's barely DX-able in Santa Rosa and
Bodega Bay (it sounds like 1550 KRPI in Ferndale, WA interferes, especially on the coast - I heard
some talk underneath KFRC)...

At night, once you get into midtown Sonoma via Highway 12 from Santa Rosa, the signal
improves very much, and it sounds bright again...

My depiction does not seem to coincide with this depiction of the "local" nighttime
coverage map (then again, this map is a "predicted" coverage area):
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KFRC&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

Based on my car-listening, 1550 appears to be a straight-line-due-North pattern at night right
toward Sonoma and Napa, two cities which have stronger reception than other places either
side of them...

I am curious what someone may hear on 1550 via a drive-by down the I-880 corridor, and on
the coast between Half Moon Bay and Santa Cruz. I know in San Jose, the 1550 signal is
barely DX-quality at night. Blecch...

This almost brings back the early-1990s, when I used a field-intensity meter while KVON was
undergoing tests to see if its directional patterns were in compliance. I wish I had one of
those meters now...

I must say, I like this kind of "play by play" report, (or signal by location) sure beats me giving it a whirl.

LOL! Thanks, Mike...

I would be very interested to know by comparison, how the 1550 signal compares with the 610 signal,
had they never left, and with the fact KFRC-1550 is 15,000 watts and KEAR-610 is 5000 watts.
What I'm saying, is the 610 signal just as good no matter where you go to test the 1550?
Mike~

I have not listened to 610 much since the end of the A's broadcasts following the Harold Camping
takeover, but I would say KEAR 610 is still very strong and gets into places where 1550 won't...
Compare 1550 at night with this for 610:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KEAR&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

Being a 1-tower non-directional day/night station at an ideal dial position certainly helps KEAR...
--jay

 

[W6WLS]

OK, I did a little cruzing around with the car radio, a Sony CDX-GT610UI, my self.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=cdx-gt610ui+review&aq=1&oq=cdx-GT610UI

Down here in the Santa Cruz/Monterey Bay Area, what I found for 1550 KFRC was
very poor at best, any "normal" AM band listener would have nothing to do with it.
A slight ray of hope does shine as you travel to Monterey, (this is along the HWY 1 route)
Being that the Santa Cruz area is directly against the mountain, 1550 just doesn’t make
the trip, well unless you want to hear the battle between KFRC and its co channel from
somewhere else (not sure where, but its Spanish). As I travel toward Watsonville and then
Monterey it begins to pick up slightly, and I do mean slightly. When I come more in line with
Castroville and Marina, the 1570 (Spanish signal) bleeds over heavily, but, once in Monterey
KFRC regains its poor signal like in Watsonville.

Seems no matter how you slice it, KFRC-1550 was not meant to go beyond the South Bay
San Jose area, and unless there is a pattern change, most likely never will.

I will add this, interestingly enough, that when listening to 1550 during the day, not only does the Spanish station come and go, but also another station, like listening to "Skip" in the evening!

Looking at the signal chart for 1550, I'm surprised it makes it this far at all! Also, I went into
Hollister, and no deal, slightly better, but just not worth the listen, well, except for us "nuts"
who will stop at nothing to hear there fav station, even with static, and since I know most
of the songs, I still play it in my head, till some signal comes back, (lol)

If only the 610 signal was again KFRC, that puppy works all over and even in "stereo" back
when they had it.

So, I guess I'll just read the reports you guys give and remember the days of old.
Thank You for sharing your info.
Mike
PS.. I thought KGO was supposed to be in HD, is it off? I hear KCBS-AM HD nicely in Scotts Valley.

 

[Fredrated]

I don't think that KFRC was ever doing any protecting of KAVL/Lancaster; KAVL would have had to protect KFRC...

In the 80's/90's, KFRC would be on top of KAVL in the post-sunrise hours to the East in the Victorville/Apple Valley area, not all that far from Lancaster..

 

[RadioStarOne]

KCBS HD comes in on my truck HD radio during the day right here in Sacramento.