Must be that damned IBOC again as KFYI sounds like they're running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has a handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the knob on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the station whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence and bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by KT'R. And wassup with all the splatter above and below the frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on KSAZ 580. We demand a full refund!
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KFYIBOC Processing
- Thread starter DrAkbar
- Start date
W
w7dtl
Guest
> Must be that damned IBOC again as KFYI sounds like they're
> running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has a
> handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the knob
> on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the station
> whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence and
> bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by KT'R.
> And wassup with all the splatter above and below the
> frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on KSAZ
> 580. We demand a full refund!
The splatter + and - one channel is (are) the IBAC digital carriers with no analog content. Even here in Globe, 70 miles away, they are 20+ db above the ambient noise floor. I assume in the Phoenix area they can be heard +/- 2 channels or more as they are designed to fill the allowed RF mask. That mask was designed decades ago to accomodate the transient distortion products of a conventional AM modulated signal. IBAC (not really IBOC) fills the mask with the constant digital data, thus the "noise" you hear. I agree, the loss of highs beyond 5 khz causes the sound to lose its clarity and the little music content sounds really bad and muddy. Well that's progress, jam the competition and program digital to the 3 receivers in Arizona. For only $249 bucks you can listen to Barry and Rush in what is really great medium wave digital mono sound.
When KTAR lights up the noise will be quite interesting at the bottom of the band. I'll bet 580 near Tucson will not be happy with the loss of coverage in Phoenix.
73 W7DTL
>
> running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has a
> handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the knob
> on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the station
> whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence and
> bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by KT'R.
> And wassup with all the splatter above and below the
> frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on KSAZ
> 580. We demand a full refund!
The splatter + and - one channel is (are) the IBAC digital carriers with no analog content. Even here in Globe, 70 miles away, they are 20+ db above the ambient noise floor. I assume in the Phoenix area they can be heard +/- 2 channels or more as they are designed to fill the allowed RF mask. That mask was designed decades ago to accomodate the transient distortion products of a conventional AM modulated signal. IBAC (not really IBOC) fills the mask with the constant digital data, thus the "noise" you hear. I agree, the loss of highs beyond 5 khz causes the sound to lose its clarity and the little music content sounds really bad and muddy. Well that's progress, jam the competition and program digital to the 3 receivers in Arizona. For only $249 bucks you can listen to Barry and Rush in what is really great medium wave digital mono sound.
When KTAR lights up the noise will be quite interesting at the bottom of the band. I'll bet 580 near Tucson will not be happy with the loss of coverage in Phoenix.
73 W7DTL
>
C
CHILL
Guest
> > Must be that damned IBOC again as KFYI sounds like they're
>
> > running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has a
>
> > handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the
> knob
> > on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the
> station
> > whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence
> and
> > bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by
> KT'R.
> > And wassup with all the splatter above and below the
> > frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on KSAZ
> > 580. We demand a full refund!
>
> The splatter + and - one channel is (are) the IBAC digital
> carriers with no analog content. Even here in Globe, 70
> miles away, they are 20+ db above the ambient noise floor. I
> assume in the Phoenix area they can be heard +/- 2 channels
> or more as they are designed to fill the allowed RF mask.
> That mask was designed decades ago to accomodate the
> transient distortion products of a conventional AM modulated
> signal. IBAC (not really IBOC) fills the mask with the
> constant digital data, thus the "noise" you hear. I agree,
> the loss of highs beyond 5 khz causes the sound to lose its
> clarity and the little music content sounds really bad and
> muddy. Well that's progress, jam the competition and program
> digital to the 3 receivers in Arizona. For only $249 bucks
> you can listen to Barry and Rush in what is really great
> medium wave digital mono sound.
> When KTAR lights up the noise will be quite interesting at
> the bottom of the band. I'll bet 580 near Tucson will not
> be happy with the loss of coverage in Phoenix.
> 73 W7DTL
> >
>
DID IBIQUITY DESIGN THIS LOSS OF ANALOG PROCESSING TO ENCOURAGE HD RADIO SALES ?
IS IT AVOIDABLE ?? .. I HEAR IBIQUITY ISN'T THE BEST SYSTEM FOR IBOC'N.
IF I GOTTA DROP A COUPLE O BILLS FOR A NEW RADIO...
DO I GO WITH HD; SO I CAN HEAR COMMERCIALS & BLATHER IN CD QUALITY ?
OR
DO I GO WITH XM OR SIRIUS ??
>
> > running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has a
>
> > handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the
> knob
> > on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the
> station
> > whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence
> and
> > bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by
> KT'R.
> > And wassup with all the splatter above and below the
> > frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on KSAZ
> > 580. We demand a full refund!
>
> The splatter + and - one channel is (are) the IBAC digital
> carriers with no analog content. Even here in Globe, 70
> miles away, they are 20+ db above the ambient noise floor. I
> assume in the Phoenix area they can be heard +/- 2 channels
> or more as they are designed to fill the allowed RF mask.
> That mask was designed decades ago to accomodate the
> transient distortion products of a conventional AM modulated
> signal. IBAC (not really IBOC) fills the mask with the
> constant digital data, thus the "noise" you hear. I agree,
> the loss of highs beyond 5 khz causes the sound to lose its
> clarity and the little music content sounds really bad and
> muddy. Well that's progress, jam the competition and program
> digital to the 3 receivers in Arizona. For only $249 bucks
> you can listen to Barry and Rush in what is really great
> medium wave digital mono sound.
> When KTAR lights up the noise will be quite interesting at
> the bottom of the band. I'll bet 580 near Tucson will not
> be happy with the loss of coverage in Phoenix.
> 73 W7DTL
> >
>
DID IBIQUITY DESIGN THIS LOSS OF ANALOG PROCESSING TO ENCOURAGE HD RADIO SALES ?
IS IT AVOIDABLE ?? .. I HEAR IBIQUITY ISN'T THE BEST SYSTEM FOR IBOC'N.
IF I GOTTA DROP A COUPLE O BILLS FOR A NEW RADIO...
DO I GO WITH HD; SO I CAN HEAR COMMERCIALS & BLATHER IN CD QUALITY ?
OR
DO I GO WITH XM OR SIRIUS ??
W
w7dtl
Guest
> > > Must be that damned IBOC again as KFYI sounds like
> they're
> >
> > > running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has
> a
> >
> > > handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the
> > knob
> > > on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the
> > station
> > > whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence
>
> > and
> > > bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by
> > KT'R.
> > > And wassup with all the splatter above and below the
> > > frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on
> KSAZ
> > > 580. We demand a full refund!
> >
> > The splatter + and - one channel is (are) the IBAC digital
>
> > carriers with no analog content. Even here in Globe, 70
> > miles away, they are 20+ db above the ambient noise floor.
> I
> > assume in the Phoenix area they can be heard +/- 2
> channels
> > or more as they are designed to fill the allowed RF mask.
> > That mask was designed decades ago to accomodate the
> > transient distortion products of a conventional AM
> modulated
> > signal. IBAC (not really IBOC) fills the mask with the
> > constant digital data, thus the "noise" you hear. I agree,
>
> > the loss of highs beyond 5 khz causes the sound to lose
> its
> > clarity and the little music content sounds really bad and
>
> > muddy. Well that's progress, jam the competition and
> program
> > digital to the 3 receivers in Arizona. For only $249 bucks
>
> > you can listen to Barry and Rush in what is really great
> > medium wave digital mono sound.
> > When KTAR lights up the noise will be quite interesting at
>
> > the bottom of the band. I'll bet 580 near Tucson will
> not
> > be happy with the loss of coverage in Phoenix.
> > 73 W7DTL
> > >
> >
>
> DID IBIQUITY DESIGN THIS LOSS OF ANALOG PROCESSING TO
> ENCOURAGE HD RADIO SALES ?
>
> IS IT AVOIDABLE ?? .. I HEAR IBIQUITY ISN'T THE BEST
> SYSTEM FOR IBOC'N.
>
> IF I GOTTA DROP A COUPLE O BILLS FOR A NEW RADIO...
>
> DO I GO WITH HD; SO I CAN HEAR COMMERCIALS & BLATHER IN CD
> QUALITY ?
>
> OR
>
> DO I GO WITH XM OR SIRIUS ??
Chill All good questions. KFYI is probably running mono IBAC which is the lower digital power version of the system and has somewhat less noise interference to the adjacent channels and itself !! In the stereo mode IBAC is a real mess in a crowded band as the digital power is increased. The analog audio must be limited to 5khz or less to avoid killing the digital data. On some radios, wideband like the old GE Super radios or a C-QUAM stereo AM receiver, you will notice a degradation of the signal to noise ratio, i.e. the station is interfering with itself. Wonderful. On the otherhand, the daytime digital sounds great -- clean and bright -- sort of like FM before stereo. Remember none of these systems are "CD" quality -- at MP3 sample rates and with agressive data reduction, based on a committee of expert listeners, all a worse than a good FM signal and much less than a CD. As the sat guys expand with more programs in the same bandwidth their quality will continue to degrade. An IBAC radio might be fun to use, and you would probably be one of the first 10 in Arizona to have one. Now what will happen to KSAZ when they are sandwiched between two IBAC signals ???
73 W7DTL
>
> they're
> >
> > > running the audio through a barrel of mud and no one has
> a
> >
> > > handle on levels. Nurse Jeff and I are crankin' up the
> > knob
> > > on the '76 Gremlin Levi's Special radio to hear the
> > station
> > > whenever a blabhost goes off mike. There is no presence
>
> > and
> > > bumper music sounds as limp as the selections used by
> > KT'R.
> > > And wassup with all the splatter above and below the
> > > frequency? They better not drown out Dan Babbige on
> KSAZ
> > > 580. We demand a full refund!
> >
> > The splatter + and - one channel is (are) the IBAC digital
>
> > carriers with no analog content. Even here in Globe, 70
> > miles away, they are 20+ db above the ambient noise floor.
> I
> > assume in the Phoenix area they can be heard +/- 2
> channels
> > or more as they are designed to fill the allowed RF mask.
> > That mask was designed decades ago to accomodate the
> > transient distortion products of a conventional AM
> modulated
> > signal. IBAC (not really IBOC) fills the mask with the
> > constant digital data, thus the "noise" you hear. I agree,
>
> > the loss of highs beyond 5 khz causes the sound to lose
> its
> > clarity and the little music content sounds really bad and
>
> > muddy. Well that's progress, jam the competition and
> program
> > digital to the 3 receivers in Arizona. For only $249 bucks
>
> > you can listen to Barry and Rush in what is really great
> > medium wave digital mono sound.
> > When KTAR lights up the noise will be quite interesting at
>
> > the bottom of the band. I'll bet 580 near Tucson will
> not
> > be happy with the loss of coverage in Phoenix.
> > 73 W7DTL
> > >
> >
>
> DID IBIQUITY DESIGN THIS LOSS OF ANALOG PROCESSING TO
> ENCOURAGE HD RADIO SALES ?
>
> IS IT AVOIDABLE ?? .. I HEAR IBIQUITY ISN'T THE BEST
> SYSTEM FOR IBOC'N.
>
> IF I GOTTA DROP A COUPLE O BILLS FOR A NEW RADIO...
>
> DO I GO WITH HD; SO I CAN HEAR COMMERCIALS & BLATHER IN CD
> QUALITY ?
>
> OR
>
> DO I GO WITH XM OR SIRIUS ??
Chill All good questions. KFYI is probably running mono IBAC which is the lower digital power version of the system and has somewhat less noise interference to the adjacent channels and itself !! In the stereo mode IBAC is a real mess in a crowded band as the digital power is increased. The analog audio must be limited to 5khz or less to avoid killing the digital data. On some radios, wideband like the old GE Super radios or a C-QUAM stereo AM receiver, you will notice a degradation of the signal to noise ratio, i.e. the station is interfering with itself. Wonderful. On the otherhand, the daytime digital sounds great -- clean and bright -- sort of like FM before stereo. Remember none of these systems are "CD" quality -- at MP3 sample rates and with agressive data reduction, based on a committee of expert listeners, all a worse than a good FM signal and much less than a CD. As the sat guys expand with more programs in the same bandwidth their quality will continue to degrade. An IBAC radio might be fun to use, and you would probably be one of the first 10 in Arizona to have one. Now what will happen to KSAZ when they are sandwiched between two IBAC signals ???
73 W7DTL
>
> In the stereo mode IBAC is a real
> mess in a crowded band as the digital power is increased.
> The analog audio must be limited to 5khz or less to avoid
> killing the digital data.
It is possible to process the analog audio at 5khz and sound loud, crisp, and clean. I heard it for myself over the weekend on KIXI in Seattle. I don't know what Bisso is running, but it sounds better than some others in that market that haven't cut back the bandwith yet.
It boils down to having the right tools for the job and the time necessary to set them up. Many stations lack one, the other, or both.
<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
> mess in a crowded band as the digital power is increased.
> The analog audio must be limited to 5khz or less to avoid
> killing the digital data.
It is possible to process the analog audio at 5khz and sound loud, crisp, and clean. I heard it for myself over the weekend on KIXI in Seattle. I don't know what Bisso is running, but it sounds better than some others in that market that haven't cut back the bandwith yet.
It boils down to having the right tools for the job and the time necessary to set them up. Many stations lack one, the other, or both.
<P ID="signature">______________
...co-moderator of the Satellite Radio, Phoenix, and San Diego boards...</P>
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