KGO fired Burns, Rothmann, Gross and Taliafero today!!!

[Rayvyn]

New user here. Just heard the news a little while ago. Sad to see KGO loose it's long time talent. My mother who is in her early eighties has listened to Ray Taliaferro since before he got to KGO. I started listening in 1986. I then started listening to other hosts like Gene Burns, Bernie Ward and John Rothmann. The great thing about KGO was it's hosts were local and talked about local issues. When something like shootings went down in the bay area, Rothmann and others would talk about it and talked to people from the bay area about the issues. Looks like we still have the weekend hosts, most of them, for a while anyway.

What I'll miss most are the Ray Taliaferro Poetry Nights and the All-Star Debates. I'll miss John Rothmann's Halloween shows with the corny jokes.

I don't entirely blame Cumulus for this. It's just the market, more and more people just don't listen to talk radio. They listen online or via satellite radio. Maybe some of the long-time KGO hosts can find other stations to be on. I wish them well, even the ones I couldn't stand to hear.

Rayvyn

 

[DavidKaye]

Cumulus just shot the only healthy horse in its stable.

The KGO talkshow hosts and other interested parties might want to pool their money together and buy KTRB 860 out of bankruptcy. With KGO out of the running, KTRB stands a much better chance of making it as a talk station. Also, its dial position proximity to KGO means it could trade on KGO's casual listener base. Plus, with KTRB's fire-sale bankruptcy price it could well work from a cash flow basis.

 

[marshallstax]

KCBS and KQED-FM will make toast out of KGO.

Pass the jam!

 

[recto101]

That would be incredibly stupid. San Francisco does not need a second commercial All News station. Even LA can no longer support a second all news station.

Cumulus obviously wants to drive KCBS out of all-news. It's a little late for that. I've been told that CBS treats their people well (certainly they seem to stay around and provide consistently good reporting). KCBS and KQED-FM will make toast out of KGO.

Remember the 1970's NBC wanted KNAI 99.7 to be all news but KCBS killed them off in the ratings. How can KGO be all news? Does this mean that KGO have to use the WEMP 101.9FM tactics or WINS Tactics. Look at NYC I always wondered how they can have 3 all-News stations?

 

[NewsStud]

KCBS and KQED-FM will make toast out of KGO.

So? A radio operator is daring to "get local" and create competition?

Let's not discourage this, please.

With all apologies and respect to the talents who did lose their jobs, something like this opens the door for commercial radio to become locally-focused again. Cumulus and KGO aren't the only ones looking to do all-news in markets where there is an established all-news station. If they're putting money into this, one may infer it means all the cost-cutting and staff-hacking, all the voice-tracking and non-localizing hasn't offered the return they think they need to compete with non-local, streaming digital media like Pandora.

 

[davearlington]

I'd like to send my best to Gene Burns, a prince of a man when I worked with him at WKIS and held in high regard by the folks at WCBM when I worked there years after he left. I'm sure he would be surprised to hear that I actually had a successful career in radio, though nothing as distinguished as his. You folks in the Bay Area will miss his take on nearly any subject. Here in DC, CBS is in the position that Cumulus is taking against CBS in SF--they are putting together the market's second news station. In DC (where many decades ago we actually had 3 news stations at one time), I think a competitor can drain off some of the enormous profits that WTOP garners. But I still credit a large proportion of the tune-in to traffic reports - and the information already available on a mobile platform will only get more convenient to access even on the road. So I foresee news stations losing a big chunk of their cume in not too many years. They could compensate with better local news coverage - but do you really expect Cumulus to successfully mount such an effort? --Dave Arlington

 

[michael hagerty]

A sad day indeed. Not entirely unexpected, but sad nonetheless. I always admired KGO. As a child, catching it at night in the Tri-Cities, WA - I loved Wattenburg's crustiness. Ray T I thought was obnoxious. The station was great though - and I listened. Here was a talker that would keep the torch burning in a world of syndicated talk that kept it local.

This new 'all news 10 hours a day with some talk' feels like a test. Keeping Owens at least anchors some local talk. If this turns out to be unsuccessful, they can try to revert it back.

It's already a success, because they've now driven the payroll way down. I think Cumulus knows they aren't going to out hustle KCBS, especially with only a partial all-news format and an AM only brand.

The points about the competition being on FM is spot on. The trends moving away from AM are undeniable, yet KGO, a station that was renowned for being ahead of the ball is now suddenly looking way behind it.

I wonder what would've happened in say, 2000 if KGO would've started an FM simulcast in the bay area. Would things have played out the same?

Phone calls have already gone out to Luckoff. I wonder if he'll publicly comment. He knew this day was coming too. That why he flipped Farid the bird and quit.

Stephanie: This isn't a test. They're keeping Owens because he was the only one with a no-cut contract. He can't be fired except for cause. They'd have to buy out the entire remainder of his contract...and Ronn is expensive.

And it's by no means "already a success". The money they saved in talk salaries will get used up very quickly. Even if they mean this to be all-news on the cheap, they'll need equipment, vehicles and people they don't currently have. Plus a much larger promotion budget to replace the listeners who've departed over the years, and the mass exodus likely to hit this week as word gets around about yesterday's firings.

If they don't stop the audience bleeding, advertising will be worth less and less. A decline in billings (figure that KGO was selling time beyond their ratings, on the strength of long associations with clients and the hosts) and an increase in costs can put KGO under water in a really big hurry.

KQED's next pledge drive, on the other hand, is gonna rock.

 

[michael hagerty]

KCBS and KQED-FM will make toast out of KGO.

So? A radio operator is daring to "get local" and create competition?

Let's not discourage this, please.

With all apologies and respect to the talents who did lose their jobs, something like this opens the door for commercial radio to become locally-focused again. Cumulus and KGO aren't the only ones looking to do all-news in markets where there is an established all-news station. If they're putting money into this, one may infer it means all the cost-cutting and staff-hacking, all the voice-tracking and non-localizing hasn't offered the return they think they need to compete with non-local, streaming digital media like Pandora.

That'd be a brilliant post if Cumulus was whacking a music station voice-tracked by talent in Dubuque....or a talk station heavily reliant on satellite syndication....like KSFO.

But Cumulus fired four "locally-focused" talents yesterday. Even if they fill their airtime with largely Bay Area news (unlikely), that's not a net change in local content.

If Cumulus dumped the satellite stuff, flipped KSFO to all-news and went to work on bringing KGO back to its' pre-Citadel glory with the top talent they had until yesterday, I think this board would be applauding (though still realistic about the daunting job of taking on KCBS).

 

[michael hagerty]

Remember the 1970's NBC wanted KNAI 99.7 to be all news but KCBS killed them off in the ratings. How can KGO be all news? Does this mean that KGO have to use the WEMP 101.9FM tactics or WINS Tactics. Look at NYC I always wondered how they can have 3 all-News stations?

Recto: You're not going to get anywhere looking at what happened 35 years ago. And New York can't have 3 all-news stations. As Randy's about to find out. Two, yes...three, no.

 

[michael hagerty]

I don't entirely blame Cumulus for this. It's just the market, more and more people just don't listen to talk radio. They listen online or via satellite radio. Maybe some of the long-time KGO hosts can find other stations to be on. I wish them well, even the ones I couldn't stand to hear.

Rayvyn

Most of the blame goes to Citadel. They're the ones who presided over the fall from 35 years of #1 ratings to KGO's current 7th place finish in the PPMs.

Still, 7th in a market the size of San Francisco with a 4.2 6+ on a cume of 600,000+ isn't disastrous. There are things that you could do to climb back up. Instead, Cumulus chose to kill it. Kinda like suggesting euthanasia for someone with the flu.

 

[michael hagerty]

Cumulus just shot the only healthy horse in its stable.

The KGO talkshow hosts and other interested parties might want to pool their money together and buy KTRB 860 out of bankruptcy. With KGO out of the running, KTRB stands a much better chance of making it as a talk station. Also, its dial position proximity to KGO means it could trade on KGO's casual listener base. Plus, with KTRB's fire-sale bankruptcy price it could well work from a cash flow basis.

Not a horrible idea. Station prices are pretty low to begin with. KTRB's could be downright cheap. Equipment, salaries and the promotion you'd need to get traction would probably be the larger part of the expenses.

 

[michael hagerty]

Here in DC, CBS is in the position that Cumulus is taking against CBS in SF--they are putting together the market's second news station. In DC (where many decades ago we actually had 3 news stations at one time), I think a competitor can drain off some of the enormous profits that WTOP garners. But I still credit a large proportion of the tune-in to traffic reports - and the information already available on a mobile platform will only get more convenient to access even on the road. So I foresee news stations losing a big chunk of their cume in not too many years. They could compensate with better local news coverage - but do you really expect Cumulus to successfully mount such an effort? --Dave Arlington

CBS, the master of all-news, is taking on Hubbard, a formerly regional operator (Minneapolis, Albuquerque) who bought WTOP from Bonneville. I'd bet heavily on CBS.

 

[michael hagerty]

Finally...here's what Cumulus might be thinking:

KCBS has a 6.3 and is #2. KGO has a 4.2 and is #7.

KGO has a signal as good as KCBS or better (forget KCBS' FM simulcast for a minute). They probably think they can get a piece of KCBS' numbers (and maybe not lose all of their existing listeners).

If....IF...KGO could keep their losses to a point and take a third of KCBS' audience, that'd be a 5.3 for them and a 4.2 for KCBS (these are based on the 6+ numbers, which are essentially worthless, but all we have....picture a similar shift in the money demos and you're probably close to what they're seeing).

Of course, more likely (and still optimistic) is that KGO takes a point off KCBS and loses half their existing listeners. In which case, it's a 5.3 for KCBS and a 3.1 for KGO.

 

[BRNout]

This is what happens when you outsource your thinking to a set of Excel spreadsheets. Clearly what the nimrods at Cumulus corporate are doing.

They'll run their business into the ground this way. If you manage stations like KGO in the same way you manage stations in places like Binghamton, NY or Evansville, IN, you end up with their listenership levels too.

 

[LKellerIII]

As we know, I'm no radio expert - but it seemed to me that the way for KGO to cut payroll and save money would be to do the opposite of what they have done: cut the news staff to the bone (no 107.7 pun intended) - maybe retain only a morning and afternoon news anchor for local news headlines, dump the Morning and Afternoon News blocks, and plug in talk shows from 6 to 9 AM and 4 to 7 PM.

IMO, KGO's intelligent live and local talk hosts have always been their strength - not their news. The news blocks used to get good ratings (not sure about lately), but I never cared for them - always tuned to KCBS and KQED for news.

But that's just me.

 

[beachguy3b]

Keep in mind ratings are the reason for a station. $$$ is the key, and great numbers don't always mean a station is profitable, and low numbers doesn't mean it is unprofitable.

No editorial comment on the changes, just keeping people thinking in terms of what matters to a company.

 

[davideduardo]

Most of the blame goes to Citadel. They're the ones who presided over the fall from 35 years of #1 ratings to KGO's current 7th place finish in the PPMs.

There is part of the issue... KGO plummeted in the PPM. They never really got out of the gate on the new survey methodology, with the 25-54 wandering around near 20th in the market. They did not have the TSL of stations like KSL, and they did not benefit from the PPM cume increases other stations and formats enjoyed.

As such, the blame is the format which lost track of 25-54 before the PPM launch. The PPM made it worse.

Still, 7th in a market the size of San Francisco with a 4.2 6+ on a cume of 600,000+ isn't disastrous. There are things that you could do to climb back up. Instead, Cumulus chose to kill it. Kinda like suggesting euthanasia for someone with the flu.

But 20th in 25-54 is barely salable, and even less so when KQED and KCBS are in the top 5. Most advertisers looking for the talk environment don't want 55+ and don't want the distant-third rated station.

 

[michael hagerty]

Most of the blame goes to Citadel. They're the ones who presided over the fall from 35 years of #1 ratings to KGO's current 7th place finish in the PPMs.

There is part of the issue... KGO plummeted in the PPM. They never really got out of the gate on the new survey methodology, with the 25-54 wandering around near 20th in the market. They did not have the TSL of stations like KSL, and they did not benefit from the PPM cume increases other stations and formats enjoyed.

As such, the blame is the format which lost track of 25-54 before the PPM launch. The PPM made it worse.

Still, 7th in a market the size of San Francisco with a 4.2 6+ on a cume of 600,000+ isn't disastrous. There are things that you could do to climb back up. Instead, Cumulus chose to kill it. Kinda like suggesting euthanasia for someone with the flu.

But 20th in 25-54 is barely salable, and even less so when KQED and KCBS are in the top 5. Most advertisers looking for the talk environment don't want 55+ and don't want the distant-third rated station.

David: I didn't realize the sales picture was that dire this early for KGO. Point well taken.

But is all-news on AM against a dominant,established and PPM-successful KCBS and KQED likely to improve their position?

 

[MC]

I predicted this, except I thought they would get rid of Owens to save the most money. They are saving a million a year in salaries.

 

[michael hagerty]

I predicted this, except I thought they would get rid of Owens to save the most money. They are saving a million a year in salaries.

To succeed in all-news, they'll need to spend that and more on resources and promotion.