KGO, KSFO - HORRIBLE RATINGS - NO WAY OUT -

[Citadel]

Disgusting. Cumulus is the worst company of all.

KGO and KSFO will change formats or be sold. It is not a question of if, but when.

Read these reviews on YELP of how people are boycotting KGO for its incompetent and sinister managers and PD's.

Also, it raises the question if the Firing African American Ray Taliaferro was in violation of Federal and State of California Civil Rights Laws.

Also, did Burns suffer his medical problems and resulting disability before or after the KGO firing spree? If it was before the firing spree, this would also be in violation of Federal and State disability laws.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/kgo-news-talk-radio-am-810-san-francisco

 

[DavidKaye]

KGO and KSFO will change formats or be sold. It is not a question of if, but when.

But what if they're making money and getting the demographics they want? Unless you're an insider you don't know whether KSFO and KGO are successful or not.

Read these reviews on YELP of how people are boycotting KGO for its incompetent and sinister managers and PD's.

The customer is the advertiser, not the listener. If the listener is over age 50 or 55 or so, KGO doesn't want them anyway. Now, if the ADVERTISERS were writing bad Yelp reviews, that would be a different matter. But nobody cares if disgruntled listeners write bad Yelp reviews.

 

[Citadel]

KGO and KSFO will change formats or be sold. It is not a question of if, but when.

But what if they're making money and getting the demographics they want? Unless you're an insider you don't know whether KSFO and KGO are successful or not.

Read these reviews on YELP of how people are boycotting KGO for its incompetent and sinister managers and PD's.

The customer is the advertiser, not the listener. If the listener is over age 50 or 55 or so, KGO doesn't want them anyway. Now, if the ADVERTISERS were writing bad Yelp reviews, that would be a different matter. But nobody cares if disgruntled listeners write bad Yelp reviews.

The Arbitron shares are horrible for both stations, significantly lower then 5 years ago. KGO could more than double their ratings, and revenue, by re-instating the old format.

The reviews on yelp are an empiracle observation and are not hard data. Nevertheless, decisions made solely on numerical data in any business are shortsighted. PD's who refuse to read comments from listeners inevitably fail.

 

[michael hagerty]

The customer is the advertiser, not the listener.

Probably an accurate description of the current reality, David, but a dangerous approach. The only thing of value a radio station has to sell is not "time", but access to the station's audience. Fewer listeners means less valuable advertising, and allowed to erode enough, worthless spot advertising. The only survival mode at that point is infomercials and brokered programming. Sure, you can earn some revenue, and adjusting your expenses, maybe even make a profit, but not like you can when you treat the listener as the customer, build a solid and loyal audience and deliver value to the advertiser.

 

[DavidKaye]

The Arbitron shares are horrible for both stations, significantly lower then 5 years ago. KGO could more than double their ratings, and revenue, by re-instating the old format.

How many times must it be said that the RAW numbers, that is the age 6+ numbers that are quoted on this website DO NOT MATTER TO ANYONE in broadcasting?

It's getting to be useless to engage you in conversation because you keep saying the same inaccurate thing over and over. We don't know if the new KGO is successful or not because we aren't privy to their books and we don't know how their accounting works.

 

[Phedeks]

What kind of weirdo listens to non stop news clips. They play the same clips over and over. The Breaking News is beaten to DEATH. I remember the Mirkirini trial stuff being the breaking news for 3 hours. Are you serious? Who is crazy enough to enjoy getting boring news clips? There is no thoughtful discussion, NOTHING. There is nothing important enough that warrants a radio station to be 24 hour non stop news. All serious matters are broken anyways. Especially with smart phones, social media, breaking news on all radio stations and TV etc etc etc. It's like watching the evening news all day but worse.

They used to have interesting topics, actually DISCUSS and have an Opinion on popular issues that cover a veriety of issues. I can't wait for the day that Cumulus, Clear Channel and all these TERRIBLE excuses for companies Die a painful death.

 

[DavidKaye]

Probably an accurate description of the current reality, David, but a dangerous approach. The only thing of value a radio station has to sell is not "time", but access to the station's audience.

First, commercial radio has always been this way; it is nothing new. Second, there are stations that have tried an all-ad approach; the most well-known was KADS in Los Angeles. And of course there are those stations such as KKSF and KNEW that run infomercials (program-length ads) all weekend long. If the advertisers didn't get response the stations wouldn't be able to sell the time.

But yes, of course, stations need specific content to reach their desired audiences. And it's become a micro-science tweaking formatics to get a boost of a .1 share. But the advertiser is still the one buying the time, and thus the listeners don't matter if they do not fall into the demographics the station wants to reach.

People who say, "I'm not going to listen to KGO ever again" are music to management's ears because the new KGO doesn't want those listeners.

When I was in the telephone call center business I would not put doctors on our service, even though doctors were the bread and butter of my industry. I hated dealing with doctors. They were more trouble than they were worth. For the most part they demanded too much and paid too late. They stressed out our phone operators with their demands.

I was happy to collect commissions from my competitors to refer doctors to other call centers. Oh, I had doctors furious with me because I wouldn't sign them up. Y'see, my company had the best reputation in San Francisco in the call center business. People were clamoring to connect to our service. But it wasn't worth it to me to have doctors.

Successful businesses are like that; they have their target niche, they tweak their operation to serve that niche, and they reject the business that doesn't fit the model.

 

[DavidKaye]

What kind of weirdo listens to non stop news clips. They play the same clips over and over. The Breaking News is beaten to DEATH. I remember the Mirkirini trial stuff being the breaking news for 3 hours. Are you serious? Who is crazy enough to enjoy getting boring news clips?

The ratings show that enough people are crazy enough to put KCBS on top. But KCBS isn't designed for folks who want to listen for 3 hours at a time.

 

[michael hagerty]

David:

There may always have been broadcasters who operate this way, but there are also those who haven't, and who've been very successful. The Bill Drake era at RKO is a great example. Album rock and Beautiful Music stations that declined ads based on how they fit the sound of the station are another.

The moment a broadcaster starts to operate from the belief that they owe an advertiser anything other than access to the station's audience for 30 or 60 seconds, the tail is wagging the dog.

 

[RadioStarOne]

Once Upon A Time: Radio Was An Arm Of The Show Business Industry, Television Was Another Major Part Beginning In The Forties And Continuing Right Up Until Today. Could The Radio Industry Revisit It's Past And Build A New Future? Will Being Just A Part Of The Recording Industry Lead It Into Oblivion? Will Sports, News, Religion, Political Talk, And A Slew Of Infomericals, Save It Entirely? So What Will Save It? Good Question! Any Takers Out There? What New Things Could Today's Group Owners Do To Shake Things Up? What Would You Do To Give New Life To The Industry? Other Than The Current Political Syndicated Talkers? How About Some Original Dramatic Plays Done Just For The Radio Audience By Groups Willing To Pay To Get Their Productions On The Air? Broadway Plays and Musical's On the Radio? Hey A New Revenue Stream for The Player's and The Station Owner's And The Shareholder's Too? How About That? Could It Be Any Worse Than A Bunch Of Dollar A Holler Preacher's? Radio's Master's Drake, McClendon, And All The Rest Always Seemed To Get The Job Done. So Is There Anyone Out There With The WhereWithAll to Do It Again? How About You? San Francisco's Radio Station's Sure could Use Some New And Original Ideas. Go KGO Go.....

 

[1069_KIFR]

Those ratings are simply disgusting!
They should be embarrassed!!

 

[DavidKaye]

David:

There may always have been broadcasters who operate this way, but there are also those who haven't, and who've been very successful. The Bill Drake era at RKO is a great example. Album rock and Beautiful Music stations that declined ads based on how they fit the sound of the station are another.

The moment a broadcaster starts to operate from the belief that they owe an advertiser anything other than access to the station's audience for 30 or 60 seconds, the tail is wagging the dog.

Maybe you're not old enough to remember when sponsors owned TV shows (and before that radio shows). Old Lawrence Welk reruns show "Geritol" or "DeSoto" (a patent medicine and a car brand respectively) on the curtain behind the band. There was a TV show called the "Lucky Strike Hit Parade", named after a cigarette company. In the original "I Love Lucy" shows before the films were stripped for syndication, Lucy and Desi did live spots during the show for Phillip Morris cigarettes.
LINKS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1A_zkUtGvw
http://www.pdcomedy.com/ClassicTV/TVAds/LucyAndDesi.htm


The original nightly NBC newcast was called the "Camel News Caravan" and for the first year required that a lit cigarette be in an ashtray in front of newscaster John Cameron Swayze. The cigarette was later removed, but as you'll see in this video, Camel integrated its name fully into the newscast, including a segment called the Camel Camera, where various filmed clips were shown. Right in the middle of the newscast, John Wayne comes on and talks about how wonderful Camels are:
LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK_3NBHJyBk

DRAKE: The RKO stations were full of ads! In those days they'd play an ad after every song, and they'd promote upcoming concerts by giving away tickets, etc. RKO was clearly not a charity.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

...it raises the question if the Firing African American Ray Taliaferro was in violation of
Federal and State of California Civil Rights Laws.

Whoa! Time out on the field!

Hey, I hate Cumulus as much as the next guy, but are you saying it's OK to
fire a white guy, but you better not fire a black guy or we'll complain.

Maybe you should explain your statement in more detail, because right now
it's ridiculous.

 

[HCochet]

Disgusting. Cumulus is the worst company of all.

KGO and KSFO will change formats or be sold. It is not a question of if, but when.

Read these reviews on YELP of how people are boycotting KGO for its incompetent and sinister managers and PD's.

Also, it raises the question if the Firing African American Ray Taliaferro was in violation of Federal and State of California Civil Rights Laws.

Also, did Burns suffer his medical problems and resulting disability before or after the KGO firing spree? If it was before the firing spree, this would also be in violation of Federal and State disability laws.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/kgo-news-talk-radio-am-810-san-francisco

Thanks for the link to yelp. I went there and gave my 2 cents.

 

[michael hagerty]

David:

There may always have been broadcasters who operate this way, but there are also those who haven't, and who've been very successful. The Bill Drake era at RKO is a great example. Album rock and Beautiful Music stations that declined ads based on how they fit the sound of the station are another.

The moment a broadcaster starts to operate from the belief that they owe an advertiser anything other than access to the station's audience for 30 or 60 seconds, the tail is wagging the dog.

Maybe you're not old enough to remember when sponsors owned TV shows (and before that radio shows). Old Lawrence Welk reruns show "Geritol" or "DeSoto" (a patent medicine and a car brand respectively) on the curtain behind the band. There was a TV show called the "Lucky Strike Hit Parade", named after a cigarette company. In the original "I Love Lucy" shows before the films were stripped for syndication, Lucy and Desi did live spots during the show for Phillip Morris cigarettes.
LINKS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1A_zkUtGvw
http://www.pdcomedy.com/ClassicTV/TVAds/LucyAndDesi.htm


The original nightly NBC newcast was called the "Camel News Caravan" and for the first year required that a lit cigarette be in an ashtray in front of newscaster John Cameron Swayze. The cigarette was later removed, but as you'll see in this video, Camel integrated its name fully into the newscast, including a segment called the Camel Camera, where various filmed clips were shown. Right in the middle of the newscast, John Wayne comes on and talks about how wonderful Camels are:
LINK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK_3NBHJyBk

DRAKE: The RKO stations were full of ads! In those days they'd play an ad after every song, and they'd promote upcoming concerts by giving away tickets, etc. RKO was clearly not a charity.

David: I'm 56. I remember the tail end of that era. The business switched to ratings-driven spot buys because it was more lucrative and because there was less risk of a show being cancelled or being forced to make casting or content changes based on the whims of a single sponsor.

As for Drake and RKO, the max was 14 minutes an hour, with no more than 70 seconds or 3 units per break. Two 30s and a :10 or a :60 and a :10 were okay. A :30, two :15s and a :10 was not.

You're right RKO wasn't a charity. It was a very lucrative business in those years (1965-1971)...because they understood that advertising will chase an audience (and pay a premium if you limit what advertising inventory is available), but audiences never chase advertising.

If you have the ratings (in the right demographic), ad dollars will follow.

 

[1069_KIFR]

Cumulus had closed door meetings tonight. Since Most everyone has decided that KGO and KSFO cannot be saved, they have decided to go dark on both stations. Monday at midnight, they cut the power.

 

[1069_KIFR]

Of course, just kidding!

 

[radioguy39nj]

KGO could've moved to FM while retaining it's format and bringing new listeners aboard. KCBS set that example with its news simulcast. Cumulus chose to gut KGO! Cumulus is a worse operator than CC and that's saying a lot!

 

[recto101]

KGO could've moved to FM while retaining it's format and bringing new listeners aboard. KCBS set that example with its news simulcast. Cumulus chose to gut KGO! Cumulus is a worse operator than CC and that's saying a lot!

If that true which FM station will KGO-FM be on? But on the other hand all the major commercial radio stations are still looking at the potential of Dashboard apps. Since Toyota has implemented dashboard apps for the 2012-2013 season Maybe some of the radio stations that are on AM today will find a way to bypass FM at some point.

 

[TheBigA]

Once Upon A Time: Radio Was An Arm Of The Show Business Industry,

Really? When was that?

Radio was once an arm of the electronics industry. Radio stations were designed to sell radio sets. RCA, Westinghouse, GE, Crosley, and more owned radio stations for this reason.

In the golden age, the advertisers made deals with show business to create programming. The advertisers owned the shows and the contracts with the performers. Then as now, advertising was an arm of show business, and broadcasting used its reach to appeal to both.

Sure, RKO and Paramount owned a few radio stations at one time. In fact, Paramount Theaters was an early co-owner in ABC, and Leonard Goldenson came to ABC from Paramount. But I don't know how anyone could say that radio was an arm of show business, except perhaps for WSM and the Opry, but in that case, they were both arms of the National Life insurance company.