KGO's signal

[jd]

I suspect the FCC lists CH when in fact, the station is really authorized to be non-D or directional at its choice at any time.

Actually it happened because there wasn't an applicable space on the electronic license form so it was listed in the "critical hours" section. According to the narrative in the application FCC staff advised them to do it that way. So in the station listings KICY has three entries; "ND" day and night, with a "DAC" (directional antenna critical hours) even if it really is only during "specified hours." Darn government forms...

 

[semoochie]

Thank you, David for saving me a lot of work! I believe "critical hours" only pertains to clear channels and consists of the 2 houirs after local sunrise and before sunset. I seem to recall it being written into the FCC rules that stations in Alaska are permitted 50kw on the clears. I have an old Vane Jones book that covers all the power levels. You're probably familiar with it. It was published well before the later breakdown of the clears but I don't know about the one in the 1960s. About 30 years ago, KGO had a 26 share at night in Portland OR! I even heard an ad for a place in Portland!

 

[DavidKaye]

KGO was directionalized to protect WGY. It has a 3-tower in-line array aimed basically north/south. KGO, WGY and KOA were all originally part of a General Electric (their owner) plan to have a 3-station network covering the U.S.

The KGO signal was not "upgraded" after the 1989 quake. The towers were simply replaced. KGO was a Class I-B station, meaning that it was not the dominant station on 810 at night (WGY was the I-A). The only I-A stations in the West were KNBR, KFI, and KSL.

 

[davideduardo]

The KGO signal was not "upgraded" after the 1989 quake. The towers were simply replaced. KGO was a Class I-B station, meaning that it was not the dominant station on 810 at night (WGY was the I-A). The only I-A stations in the West were KNBR, KFI, and KSL.

I believe the only 1-A's were the 50 kw non-d's on exclusive channels... KNBR and WGY (along with WTIC and KNX) were, I think, 1-B's per the 1941 NARBA reassignment

You can see the pre and post NARBA listings of all US radio stations in RaDex magazines on http://www.davidgleason.com/Radex_Complete_Issues.htm Look at the last two, which are pre and post reassignment. I just got the 1928 issue that shows the pre and post reallocation frequencies for the "other" frequency change in the US, and will publish it soon.

From the excellent www.oldradio.com this quote; "Peter Haas notes: My list, as confirmed from examining the NARBA treaty documents, of U.S. Class I-A Clears are: 640, 650, 660, 670, 700, 720, 750, 760, 770, 780, 820, 830, 840, 870, 880, 890, 1020, 1030, 1040, 1100, 1120, 1160, 1180, 1200 and 1210, since 1941. I call these "Class I-A Clears in-fact." There are 25 in number."

 

[vibe]

Being a radio novice why would KGO have to protect the 810 (WGY) near Albany NY? They are nearly 3000 mi apart and WGY's signal doesn't seem to be on a par with the other 1-A clears. As it stand's KGO has a great antenna pattern of its own.

 

[SFStatic]

Thanks for the info, David. Damn, I thought there were only 22 1-A clears originally. I believe that there were a couple more 1-Bs...WKBW in Buffalo and KOMA in Oklahoma City were both 50Kw day & night on 1520. John Timm, the CE of KOMA said that his 3 tower rig at night essentially threw 3Kw North, about 300w NE towards Buffalo, and around 150,000 South. They were non-D daytime at the time, as I recall. In speaking to a couple buddies who came back from Vietnam, they said that in the daytime there (night in Okla), they could pick up the Big 1520 on a transistor radio in the street.

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for the info, David. Damn, I thought there were only 22 1-A clears originally. I believe that there were a couple more 1-Bs...WKBW in Buffalo and KOMA in Oklahoma City were both 50Kw day & night on 1520. John Timm, the CE of KOMA said that his 3 tower rig at night essentially threw 3Kw North, about 300w NE towards Buffalo, and around 150,000 South. They were non-D daytime at the time, as I recall. In speaking to a couple buddies who came back from Vietnam, they said that in the daytime there (night in Okla), they could pick up the Big 1520 on a transistor radio in the street.

I was only referring to the non-directional 1-Bs. There are a bunch of directional ones, like 850 Boston, 1190 Portland and Ft. Wayne, 1090 Baltimore and Seattle, 1000 Chicago and Seattle, 710 NY and Seattle, WBT Charlotte and KFAB Omaha, and the ones over 1500 kile KFBK and WCKY, WLAC and KGA on 1510 and so on.

KOMA... I can remember the ads for movies where they announced theatres... The Rex in Jamestown (ND), The Regal in Scottsbluff, the.... and so on from the Dakotas to New Mexico. Rather impressive. It would probably have crossed the Rockies, were it not for the big station on 1520 in Port Hueneme, CA.

 

[davideduardo]

Being a radio novice why would KGO have to protect the 810 (WGY) near Albany NY? They are nearly 3000 mi apart and WGY's signal doesn't seem to be on a par with the other 1-A clears. As it stand's KGO has a great antenna pattern of its own.

When the 1 A and 1 B clears were created, there were around 500 or so radio stations operating (I count share timers here as one station) so much of America had no local station and the clears were supposed to fill in the coverage and were protected from interference over a 1000 miles from the station. Were KGO and WGY to have both been non-directional, they would have interferred in the Midwest, probably from the western plains states to Indiana, KY, TN, AL, etc. Much of that mid-America area was truly served by WGY in the 30's and 40's before TV arrived.

KGO has a good pattern for a market that begins norht of Santa Rosa and goes south as far as Campbell. It does miss, at night, a lot of the areas in the hills on the easern edge of the market, which are in the nulll are and not covered well. KNBR is the better full market signal, followed by WCBS.

 

[DavidKaye]

You're right, David. The only I-As in the West were KFI and KSL. KNBR was a ND I-B.

 

[vibe]

Another thanks, David, for your explanation to my question. had no idea that signals from San Fran and Schened, NY on 810 could possibly conflict. I thought the stronger one would simply win out.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

KOMA...It would probably have crossed the Rockies, were it not for the big station on 1520 in Port Hueneme, CA.

KACY (former calls) 1520 Port Hueneme, while they were 50 gallons days,
dropped to one gallon DA at night (as I recall from old Broadcasting
Yearbooks). Surprisingly, the current occupant there on 1520 is running
only ten gallons days, per radio-locator.com.

As for KOMA sending tons-o-kilowatts to the west, legend has it that the
Beach Boys said they could pick up KOMA while driving down the Sunset
Strip in El Lay at night.

 

[davideduardo]

KOMA...It would probably have crossed the Rockies, were it not for the big station on 1520 in Port Hueneme, CA.

KACY (former calls) 1520 Port Hueneme, while they were 50 gallons days,
dropped to one gallon DA at night (as I recall from old Broadcasting
Yearbooks). Surprisingly, the current occupant there on 1520 is running
only ten gallons days, per radio-locator.com.

The 50 added no salable coverage, but upped the electic bill significantly. It just was not worth it.

As for KOMA sending tons-o-kilowatts to the west, legend has it that the
Beach Boys said they could pick up KOMA while driving down the Sunset
Strip in El Lay at night.

Doubtful, as the noise level alone in LA would have blocked it. There was also an urban legend of KDAY being heard in Nam. Most DXers who do any international DX will tell you it is next to impossible to get Vientnam in the lower 48.... and at some times the Vietnamese stations have run many times the power of US AMs. Further, the band is quite congested in SE Asia, making US reception quite difficult.

 

[jd]

As for KOMA sending tons-o-kilowatts to the west, legend has it that the
Beach Boys said they could pick up KOMA while driving down the Sunset
Strip in El Lay at night.

I think there might be something to that story. Contrary to what the night pattern looks like on Radio-Locator a great amount of power is heading to the west and northwest. I've talked with a couple of people who were at KOMA during its heyday. Supposedly they could (and occasionally did) jack up the power at night and the FCC got wind of it. According to the story KOMA somehow escaped paying a fine, but an engineer later admitted that the measured power level was around 135,000 watts.

 

[semoochie]

Regarding interference to the east coast, KXL Portland OR was licensed as a limited time station(basically a daytimer in the west), protecting WSB Atlanta. The story I heard was that if they ran as little as 500 watts at night, it would interfere with WSB over Texas. This was in spite of the fact that they were able to sign on at 6AM in the dead of winter with 50kw! This went on for decades! After the additional clears were broken up in 1980, they were given some night power and later went to their present 20kw. Owned by Paul Allen, they are now KEX's only serious AM competitor.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

As for KOMA sending tons-o-kilowatts to the west, legend has it that the Beach Boys said they could pick up KOMA while driving down the Sunset Strip in El Lay at night.

KOMA was a night-time DX regular here in the Bay Area during the 1970s, as was KRVN/880 in Lexington, NE and WWL/870 in New Orleans. I haven't tried to pull any of those stations in since ... um, the 1970s.

DJ

 

[JR1967]

I could already see the effect of the nighttime signals of clear channel stations being altered at night when I moved to Southern California back in 1993, and found out quickly that I could no longer receive stations like 700 WLW and 1120 KMOX in St. Louis, unlike back in 1986 when I was easily able to pick up both of these stations at nighttime down near San Diego. I live back here in Atlanta now, and one of the most negative things to happen was when WGST moved over to the 640 frequency back in the late 80's from its old 920 home (Now the frequency of 920 WGKA), blocking out KFI's late night signal here on 640.

That being said, KGO is truly an icon in AM and talk radio. I still listen to them sometimes over the internet.

 

[davideduardo]

I think there might be something to that story. Contrary to what the night pattern looks like on Radio-Locator a great amount of power is heading to the west and northwest. I've talked with a couple of people who were at KOMA during its heyday. Supposedly they could (and occasionally did) jack up the power at night and the FCC got wind of it. According to the story KOMA somehow escaped paying a fine, but an engineer later admitted that the measured power level was around 135,000 watts.

More urban legend. The FCC had regulations that did not permit installing a transmitter of significantly greater than the maximum licensed power. Any inspection would have revealed the difference between a stock 50 kw transmitter and one capable of 135 kw, whiich would be beyond the range of a 60's or 70's 100 kw transmitter... and would have been very muc more expensive.

It is true that the power in the night lobe was the equvalent of about 125 kw non-directional from about 210 degrees true to about 320 degrees true.

 

[jd]

Any inspection would have revealed the difference between a stock 50 kw transmitter and one capable of 135 kw, whiich would be beyond the range of a 60's or 70's 100 kw transmitter...

I'll be sure to pass along your dismissal of the story to the engineer who was there.

 

[SFStatic]

They had a couple 50Kw Continentals. Had a 100Kw Cat generator on the roof to power them if the juice went out.

 

[boiseengineer]

A number of stations had (and still have) transmitters that could exceed their "rated" or licnesed power and were accepted by the FCC. The RCA KFXD 580 had would easily make 8-9 kw. It was a 10 kw with the second PA tube "removed". Many of the home brew or composite 50 KW transmitters were over built and could crank out a lot of power without much effort.