KGO'S Signal !!

[airpab]

Was in Southern Cal recently.....LA and San Diego......And KGO booms down there! Comes in better than a lot of the locals. They truly have an amazing AM signal....Does anyone know where their tower is and what kind of signal they put out?

 

[weav]

It's in Newark, next to the Dumbarton Bridge approach, stealthily hidden in a building labelled "KGO" in four-foot letters, and 3 400-foot towers.

They put out 50K into the phasor, but they have a couple nulls so the effective radiated power in the main lobes is more like 100K IIRC. Ask PeterH5322 over on ba.broadcast and he could tell you for hours.

 

[LKellerIII]

I grew up in the San Fernando Valley in the 60s - my mother was a talk radio junkie - mostly KABC and KLAC. But she often tuned in KGO at night - Ira Blue, if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, I was DXing KFRC from my room, which often had a good signal in LA at night, too - though not nearly as strong as KGO.

 

[DavidKaye]

I grew up in the San Fernando Valley in the 60s - my mother was a talk radio junkie - mostly KABC and KLAC. But she often tuned in KGO at night - Ira Blue, if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, I was DXing KFRC from my room, which often had a good signal in LA at night, too - though not nearly as strong as KGO.

610, the former KFRC has an amazing signal. They're running 5kw on a single stick on the water next to the freeway on Ashby Avenue in Berkeley. They not only put a city grade signal into SF, but also Sacramento, Stockton, and Modesto as well.

It's fascinating that SF stations would come in better in LA than LA stations in SF, but when you think of radio history it becomes clear that for decades SF was more important in the radio world than LA was. Thus, it was more important for the station owners to put up fine AM facilities here.

 

[Channel Surf]

Just curious...Has anyone ever heard any interference at all at night from WGY when listening to KGO?

 

[LKellerIII]

"It's fascinating that SF stations would come in better in LA than LA stations in SF, but when you think of radio history it becomes clear that for decades SF was more important in the radio world than LA was. Thus, it was more important for the station owners to put up fine AM facilities here."

Yes - for at least the first couple of decades after the dawn of radio, San Francisco was considered the premiere West Coast City - not Los Angeles. I'd speculate that SF was considered more sophisticated, not because it was more populous. I believe LA passed SF in population before radio became a factor.

Like New York, it was SF stations that got the network O&O call letters - KCBS, and KNBC. 680 became KNBR in the 60s when NBC decided to move the call letters to their LA TV station.

I'm not sure why KGO was never KABC.

 

[davideduardo]

It's fascinating that SF stations would come in better in LA than LA stations in SF, but when you think of radio history it becomes clear that for decades SF was more important in the radio world than LA was. Thus, it was more important for the station owners to put up fine AM facilities here.

The only two SF stations that come in very consistently in LA are KGO and KCBS, and that is because both have enormous directional lobes at night towards LA. On the other hand, the first two 50 kw stations in LA, KFI and KNX, are non-directional and push much less power towards SF.

Fortunately for KCBS and KGO protecting Toronto and Schenectedy gave them nice signals up and down the coast, which is the way the market has grown. For KNX and KFI, being nondirectional helps, since the market has also grown to the east.

 

[Hunter]

It's fascinating that SF stations would come in better in LA than LA stations in SF, but when you think of radio history it becomes clear that for decades SF was more important in the radio world than LA was. Thus, it was more important for the station owners to put up fine AM facilities here.

The only two SF stations that come in very consistently in LA are KGO and KCBS, and that is because both have enormous directional lobes at night towards LA. On the other hand, the first two 50 kw stations in LA, KFI and KNX, are non-directional and push much less power towards SF.

I would imagine that the ground conductivity/location of the KGO, KCBS & KFRC towers being on/near the bay helps significantly as well compared to the KFI & KNX towers which are on dry land.

 

[davideduardo]

I would imagine that the ground conductivity/location of the KGO, KCBS & KFRC towers being on/near the bay helps significantly as well compared to the KFI & KNX towers which are on dry land.

Not relevant; the signals from KGO and KCBS in the LA metro are night skywave signals, not groundwave. Ground conductivity does not help skywave.

 

[DavidKaye]

The only two SF stations that come in very consistently in LA are KGO and KCBS, and that is because both have enormous directional lobes at night towards LA. On the other hand, the first two 50 kw stations in LA, KFI and KNX, are non-directional and push much less power towards SF.

I've had no problem getting KNBR in LA.

 

[davideduardo]

I've had no problem getting KNBR in LA.

It's nowhere as good as 740 and 810. In much of the northern part of the market, it sits next to 670, KIRN. And along the coast and most of the OC, it is next to much stronger XETRA. You can get it, but it is not very listenable most of the time.

 

[LKellerIII]

"The only two SF stations that come in very consistently in LA are KGO and KCBS, and that is because both have enormous directional lobes at night towards LA. On the other hand, the first two 50 kw stations in LA, KFI and KNX, are non-directional and push much less power towards SF."

Good information - thanks. Though I don't have as much time on my hands for DXing as I did when I was a kid in LA, I've tried a few times over the years to tune in KFI and KNX from San Francisco. They usually don't come in very well. That explains it.

 

[airpab]

Kinda cool for DXers......Can get 850/KOA out of Denver at night.....Also 1000/KOMO out of Seattle and 760/KFMB out of San Diego!

 

[CarterB]

KFI has been running on a temporary antenna after its monster stick was hit by a plane some years ago. They have a new site planned with a much better antenna. The stations signal will improve up here once that new antenna is put into service.

 

[woody1394]

610, the former KFRC has an amazing signal. They're running 5kw on a single stick on the water next to the freeway on Ashby Avenue in Berkeley. They not only put a city grade signal into SF, but also Sacramento, Stockton, and Modesto as well.

Funny you say that; I just drove to Vegas last week and noticed that too, but in my case it was over the Tehachapis and the Grapevine. Once you are over the Tehachapis, KAVL (Lancaster) kills it, but otherwise it comes in pretty good down there, at least in the hills. West of Tehachapi summit I hear the former KFRC very well. Not bad for a 5KW stick!

KGO comes in like a local station even well into the morning in the hwy 14 corridor, especially near Acton. Conversely, I get KNX very well here in the tri-valley area of the east bay, but KFI can sometimes be tough. It wasn't always that way; KFI used to come in up here very well. Does anyone know if KFI changed their dispersion pattern after that plane crashed into one of the KFI towers a couple years ago? That is when I think I started having issues picking them up regularly, and it's been like that since.

 

[woody1394]

KFI has been running on a temporary antenna after its monster stick was hit by a plane some years ago. They have a new site planned with a much better antenna. The stations signal will improve up here once that new antenna is put into service.

Looks like we posted at the same time...Thanks Carter!

 

[oaktree]

A fascinating history of one of the few remaining heavyweight flamethrowing blowtorches in U.S. radio ... KGO.

Why wasn't it named KABC? Because its local legend as an original General Electric station (K-General(electric)-Oakland) coincided with GE's ownership of WGY in Schenectady and KOA, Denver. The call letters go back to 1924, and a three-letter call at that.

However, the fascinating story is that KGO was, at first, a flagship NBC station until the early 60s. Remember, NBC "Red" and "Blue" split ... with one of the NBC nets becoming ABC ... and the rest is history ...

Enjoy this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KGO_(AM)

 

[davideduardo]

KFI has been running on a temporary antenna after its monster stick was hit by a plane some years ago. They have a new site planned with a much better antenna. The stations signal will improve up here once that new antenna is put into service.

KFI is simply rebuilding the tower at the old site. The new tower will not be as high as the old one, but with top loading, it will be electricaly the same height. The skywave signal will only minimally improve, if at all, since the power will go up a bit, but the short tower actually puts out more skywave than the new half wave one will. The groundwave will improve, though, with a more efficient tower and double the power. That should improve useful groundwave coverage by as much as 50%.

 

[davideduardo]

Does anyone know if KFI changed their dispersion pattern after that plane crashed into one of the KFI towers a couple years ago? That is when I think I started having issues picking them up regularly, and it's been like that since.

KFI had and has only one tower. Currently, after the accident, the tower is less than 90 electrical degrees and the power is at 50% of the licensed value. The old tower was half wave, 180 degrees high. The new one will be about 100 feet lower, but top loaded to be the equivalent of 180 degrees.

 

[Bongwater]

Waay up in WA, There is also a religious station on 810 kHz called KTBI in Ephrata, WA. It's a 50,000 watt DAYTIMER (to protect KGO) but that day signal is a MONSTER. It can be heard just over the Cascades to the west (though not getting past North Bend on the West side) to as far east as Western Montana, as far south as North Central Oregon to Southern British Columbia to the north. It effectively blankets all of central/Eastern Washington clearly.

KGO's signal has been known to skip over the north pole and be picked up as far away as Siberia (similar reports of WGY making it there have been reported as well.)