Nope, KNHC has to protect KAOS (89.3). That's the reason for the null to the South.
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KGRG goes silent
- Thread starter valvashon
- Start date
Definitely! But how fun would it be?? Enumclaw has grown so there's gotta be plenty of ad money.... (im totally fantasizing here, of course)
Fun burning through money? Other than reports of some sports celebrities and rock musicians, I've never heard anyone claim that wasting money is a good time. Especially when you eventually run out of it, and you would very quickly doing AM radio in Enumscratch. Money going to a charity that does good for a community or children would be more worthwhile than creating RF that few humans would ever listen to.
Of all of the AM to save, I think 1330 would be at the very bottom of the list. The folks who wanted to save the original KGY would have even been better off.
I don’t think 1330 received any real listeners. Perhaps local students tuning into hear their voice track show (or their friend’s voice track show), but that’s probably about it.
The format on 1330 was entertaining though. The listeners just happened to live online…
I don’t think 1330 received any real listeners. Perhaps local students tuning into hear their voice track show (or their friend’s voice track show), but that’s probably about it.
The format on 1330 was entertaining though. The listeners just happened to live online…
I think they had a potential listenership, but the signal was too limited (mainly the SE section of South King County) to reach most of the potential listeners. Grunge-era music is still popular in the Seattle area, especially among GenX'ers. That said, they probably get their Blood Circus, Mudhoney, Coffin Break and Nirvana deep-cuts fix from online streaming. Even the Classic Alternative 102.9 didn't last longer than just over a year. I don't know how the HD2 Classic Alternative is doing.... How is any HD2 actually doing?
Streaming has bypassed these smaller, niche music formats, unless they're ethnic ones. Niche music formats are the realm of the specialty show, it just doesn't make enough money to justify it being on the air.
Agreed that if KGRG-1 1330 had a stream and advertised it, it would have helped. I listened to it while working out during the day. It was cool hearing the grunge acts again, including stuff I missed the first time around. But it was AM, and grainy (I'm in the fringe area of the station), so I doubt more than 100 other people were listening at any given time.
I believe they did indeed have a stream, but I’m not sure how well it was promoted. I definitely used it before to tune into a show that someone I know was hosting. The actual signal from 1330 was completely useless.
I wish they would have just programmed the main FM station with the grunge they were airing on 1330. They could have done some sort of hybrid format between what they had on AM and FM. Dump 1330 all together, and look into the possibility of moving the transmitter for 89.9 to the Green River Campus. Green River College is already on Lea Hill, so it might get out reasonably well. But most importantly, save on all of those extra costs. Most listeners would be on the internet stream anyway. They could still treat the station as a teaching tool, but I see no reason to go down the arduous road of trying to create a radio station that appeals to an FM audience. Just own the fact that it’s an extremely niche format and cater to those who want that.
Circling back to my earlier point, I think it’s still a bad idea to go down the road of mandatory classes, credits, and curriculum to operate a simple student radio station. It needs to get funding somewhere (this we all understand), but convincing people to pay money to learn something they could learn for free is a very hard sell.
I beg to differ on the concept of college stations being useless, and/or the idea that people can learn for free at a commercial broadcaster.
In today's broadcasting business market, the days of an interested party offering to sweep floors, make coffee, etc. to get a foot in the door -- and eventually a career in the field -- are long over. It may be possible in very small markets with mom & pop stations, but in any larger city I would guess that is pretty rare. With broadcast stations' budgets being so tight no one is going to train a nobody for free. Even public radio stations are laying off people. So who will have the valuable time to spare to train an absolute neophyte who wants to get into radio?
There may be college internships available at radio stations, including public broadcasters -- but that implies that the neophyte is part of a college journalism or radio program.
I know there are some who possibly got into radio by just contacting the station and offering to work for free, but that ship sailed probably over a decade ago. The positive aspect of a station like KGRG is that if that if someone goes through the program, and that new prospect contacts a radio station, they at least have a modicum of knowledge of how radio works. It's a starting point. The mandatory classes provide a reason for the college to keep and maintain the station. It's college. Colleges teach a lot of stuff that may or may not directly apply to the real world. The student newspaper where I labored in the early 80's still exists, but I sincerely doubt that even half of the graduates of that program get jobs in journalism, especially in the shrinking journalism market.
But -- medical schools and similar specialized education aside -- colleges aren't in the business to guarantee you a job when you leave. Their purpose is to give you the basic training and knowledge base in certain fields, and the rest is up to you. And the value in programs like college radio, college newspapers, and similar programs is that at least those you approach in the field know you probably have at least a rudimentary knowledge of the field you hope to work in. They still will have to train you if they take you on, but they already will know they have more to work with than if it's some novice who has no training whatsoever.
RE: KGRG-1's stream: I think at one point they did have a stream. But when I checked KGRG's websites after hearing them post-flip (I wanted to see if they had a playlist so I could ID a song -- they didn't have one), the stream was MIA. I suppose they might have been running on a platform like TuneIn or another similar platform -- I didn't check...
EDIT: I just checked. KGRG-1's Classic Alt stream is on the IHeart platform. On IHeart's Seattle area based platform -- both KGRG's are on there, with the Classic Alt still playing.
FWIW:
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Colleges won't provide programs or curricula if only one or two potential students per semester are interested in signing up. At least at a community college or college level, that's been the case for several years. The radio communications program at Clover Park Technical College in Lakewood was shut down because enrollment had faded to a number that could be counted on one hand. I believe the same thing happened at Bates across town. The remaining college stations then became either self-funded with the ability to promote the school or college as an incentive to remain on as the licensee, or like KEXP, the station breaks off from the school or university to become a separate NCE organization/licensee. Of course, that took an extra boost from the help of a big trust fund set up by Paul Allen.
With so much talent being unveiled to the world on social media spaces like TikTok, X, or whatever, that's where the radio business is finding potential new talent. Other than an Internet connection and no need to sign up for a class, the cost of getting on the radio becomes minimal.
Allow me to set things straight regarding KGRG and Green River College!
I'm responsible for providing technical, operational, production and training services to multiple NCEs - including KGRG for most of it's existence.
I see a lot of wild speculation that borders on conspiracy suspicions here!
First, the STAs:
A financial decision required the removal of all FM transmitting equipment from the ATC site. By pure coincidence - yes they really do exist - the 1330 transmitter failed. As the person who cleaned up the mess afterwards, I have the photos. The truth is that neither STA was caused by closure of the Broadcast Journalism program at GRC (see below), or the sale of any property as speculated (lol!). Neither license has been forfeited.
Streams, Websites, etc:
The websites & links ... don't get me started - beyond my direct responsibility. HOWEVER, BOTH stations continue to stream through iHeart, TuneIn, and many others. Here are direct links to our stream host:
- KGRG-FM - Online radio
- KGRG (AM) - Online radio
=> Ask Alexa to "Play KGRG1" for classic KGRG-FM and new alternative 'rock'.
Journalism at Green River College:
For those that are truly paying attention, GRC opened a full-time faculty position in the growing Journalism program this spring, and it has been filled. Yes, enrollment in the broadcast courses has been low in recent years. There are many factors, but it's critical to understand the students.
We need to recognize, and acknowledge, that "Radio" (as we all knew it) is of very little interest to current high school students. Also, the skills required for most in-demand jobs in broadcasting do not actually require an RF transmitting facility. I would love to revive my broadcast technology course, but podcasting (JOURN 125) and audio editing (JOURN 140) attract way more students.
I won't predict the future of KGRG, or any of your own stations, but as long as young students want to create content, we all need to show them how to succeed with the technology available.
I'm responsible for providing technical, operational, production and training services to multiple NCEs - including KGRG for most of it's existence.
I see a lot of wild speculation that borders on conspiracy suspicions here!
First, the STAs:
A financial decision required the removal of all FM transmitting equipment from the ATC site. By pure coincidence - yes they really do exist - the 1330 transmitter failed. As the person who cleaned up the mess afterwards, I have the photos. The truth is that neither STA was caused by closure of the Broadcast Journalism program at GRC (see below), or the sale of any property as speculated (lol!). Neither license has been forfeited.
Streams, Websites, etc:
The websites & links ... don't get me started - beyond my direct responsibility. HOWEVER, BOTH stations continue to stream through iHeart, TuneIn, and many others. Here are direct links to our stream host:
- KGRG-FM - Online radio
- KGRG (AM) - Online radio
=> Ask Alexa to "Play KGRG1" for classic KGRG-FM and new alternative 'rock'.
Journalism at Green River College:
For those that are truly paying attention, GRC opened a full-time faculty position in the growing Journalism program this spring, and it has been filled. Yes, enrollment in the broadcast courses has been low in recent years. There are many factors, but it's critical to understand the students.
We need to recognize, and acknowledge, that "Radio" (as we all knew it) is of very little interest to current high school students. Also, the skills required for most in-demand jobs in broadcasting do not actually require an RF transmitting facility. I would love to revive my broadcast technology course, but podcasting (JOURN 125) and audio editing (JOURN 140) attract way more students.
I won't predict the future of KGRG, or any of your own stations, but as long as young students want to create content, we all need to show them how to succeed with the technology available.
All good information, sort of. So, is there a plan to replace the AM transmitter, or is the plan to sunset that station?
Did GRCC lose or not renew its lease on the ATC site? Is there a plan to move to a different site, or is GRCC out of the OTA radio side altogether?
Do you still have student-hosted programs even on the stream, or is it mainly tracked music from automation?
I think that's certainly a fair statement. Teaching journalism, editing, and composition without the OTA factor is probably a better way to consolidate the curriculums than all the hassles of being a licensee too.
I'm also curious to hear what the plan is with KGRG-AM, as you can't even find it in the FCC database right now. That seems to happen when a license is cancelled.
The KGRG AM license remains active. The AM Query search you're using is the problem - it's mostly CDBS-based and the FCC has transitioned to LMS.
You can use the FCC's LMS search or FCCdata.org to get the LMS data:
enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov
You can use the FCC's LMS search or FCCdata.org to get the LMS data:
Facility Search « Licensing and Management System Admin « FCC
FCC License Modernization
A sad ending to a key Northwest college radio station.
I first picked up KGRG on my stereo in my first apartment in Lynnwood around 1987. I don't remember what their power was, 10 watts? 100 watts? But it was a good catch. Their format wasn't Alternative at the time But a KNAC-like Metal format. Which played lots of early grunge; Mono Men, UC5, Skinyard, Tad, Mudhoney and through their airplay, helped spread the word among teens and young adults about this new underground local sound you didn't have to be a poseur to like.
Your cousin in Spokane meanwhile was still raving about the new Def Leppard album.
Before someone yells "KCMU!", they were moving into a world music heavy direction in the late 1980s. So airplay of the harder stuff was being quietly reduced. Or moved to overnight hours. No more D.R.I.and Fugazi on the radio at 2pm on KCMU.
But that was morning drive for KGRG. You heard Metallica, Sepultura, King Diamond and other edgy metal.
But anyway. By 1990, KGRG began leaning hard into grunge and indie Alternative. And the metal reduced by 1992. Their simulcast with then-KBTC 91.7 brought KGRG to new ears and it was very popular for a while (KXRX even made a spoof of it called "K-Grunge"). But Bates had other plans for KBTC (and who doesn't remember "CLASSICAL Rock")
KGRG went back to Active Rock sometime after that. I sometimes listened to KGRG At times, they even seemed like they could be a farm league station for KISW.
Their latest direction was a total curveball. I only knew KGRG as a rock station. And I was horrified. KGRG always had a pretty loyal audience. Not as big as it was in the early 1990s. But important enough not to ignore. Decades of people who believed in KGRG. I knew the station had better turn into a listener cash generator real quick. Or it was over.
Aaaaaand, it's over.
Maybe they need to get things worked out and that 500 watt headache at 1330 kHz in Enumscratch disposed of.
But either way, it's always troubling to watch another once very bright and innovative college station fall apart this way.
I first picked up KGRG on my stereo in my first apartment in Lynnwood around 1987. I don't remember what their power was, 10 watts? 100 watts? But it was a good catch. Their format wasn't Alternative at the time But a KNAC-like Metal format. Which played lots of early grunge; Mono Men, UC5, Skinyard, Tad, Mudhoney and through their airplay, helped spread the word among teens and young adults about this new underground local sound you didn't have to be a poseur to like.
Your cousin in Spokane meanwhile was still raving about the new Def Leppard album.
Before someone yells "KCMU!", they were moving into a world music heavy direction in the late 1980s. So airplay of the harder stuff was being quietly reduced. Or moved to overnight hours. No more D.R.I.and Fugazi on the radio at 2pm on KCMU.
But that was morning drive for KGRG. You heard Metallica, Sepultura, King Diamond and other edgy metal.
But anyway. By 1990, KGRG began leaning hard into grunge and indie Alternative. And the metal reduced by 1992. Their simulcast with then-KBTC 91.7 brought KGRG to new ears and it was very popular for a while (KXRX even made a spoof of it called "K-Grunge"). But Bates had other plans for KBTC (and who doesn't remember "CLASSICAL Rock")
KGRG went back to Active Rock sometime after that. I sometimes listened to KGRG At times, they even seemed like they could be a farm league station for KISW.
Their latest direction was a total curveball. I only knew KGRG as a rock station. And I was horrified. KGRG always had a pretty loyal audience. Not as big as it was in the early 1990s. But important enough not to ignore. Decades of people who believed in KGRG. I knew the station had better turn into a listener cash generator real quick. Or it was over.
Aaaaaand, it's over.
Maybe they need to get things worked out and that 500 watt headache at 1330 kHz in Enumscratch disposed of.
But either way, it's always troubling to watch another once very bright and innovative college station fall apart this way.
I never could get the FM here, on ANY radio. The AM came in well during the day. A grunge-heavy format is a hard sell on radio these days, same with a Nu-metal format. Remember, Rock 98.9 was nu-metal heavy and aimed at the GenX rock listener and failed. GenX, being approximately 10% smaller than either the Boomers before them, or the Millennials after them, are a smaller demographic, and radio is facing tough times.
Even college radio is probably facing tough times, because a lot of colleges are facing tougher times. This latest crop of GenZ'ers is about 15% smaller than the Millennials, population wise, and some colleges back East are closing because of it. Less students = less FTE's = less revenues.
I am glad there is an HD-2 classic alternative channel (on Jack FM), but even they seem to play a lot of newer stuff.
I hope KGRG-1 stays on the air in some form. Just because.
I forgot about the KGRG on KBTC 91.7 simulcast. KEXP was simulcast on 91.7 for a time too when the 91.7 call letters were KXOT.
KGRG was also simulcast for a short while- 6 months or maybe just over the summer- on KMIH when they were on 104.5. I recall hearing that KMIH just needed a programming source to keep the license active while they reorganized the radio program at Mercer Island High School. I'm sure KGRG was happy to pick up another frequency in the greater Seattle area, if even for a short while.
Val
They did that 19 years ago with 91.7 KXOT (Now KYFQ)
No need. There's this thing called streaming.