KIIS FM - CHR or AOR???

[john77]

Has anyone else noticed that KIIS FM in L.A. seems to not be acting like a CHR station? They seem to be "artist focused" like an AOR station, rather than "song focused" like a CHR station is supposed to be.

For example, they've missed out on several huge hits from a variety of formats and styles, ranging from Nickelback to Cascada to the Fray and Hinder... yet, they have no problem playing subpar songs from the likes of Gwen Stefani, Ciara, etc even if they are like the 4th or 5th tracks from an album. This is what an AOR station does, not a CHR. Ultimately, this will end up hurting KIIS FM's ratings.

 

[CHRles]

Have you noticed how KIIS FM does in the ratings, and with women????
Have you also noticed they have the type of personalities that won't fit on AOR radio?
Or that their Powers get twice to three times as much as a power on an AOR?
Or that KIIS-FM has the highest cume in L.A.?

Would it hurt to try launching a competing CHR in L.A. that will be more musically balanced? I don't know, but I do know that KIIS-FM is playing the hits for its target audience. If Gwen and Ciara score highly with that audience, and help define the sound of the station, then good for them for playing AS MANY as of their songs as possible.

The people who end up missing the songs KIIS-FM misses out on are some of the Top 40 fans who follow the national charts, and out of towners who listen to the station online. Neither one of those "target groups" will help KIIS-FM much in the ratings...
Sad but true.

 

[CHRles]

BTW, KIIS-FM is now playing both My Chemical Romance and Fallout Boy on their station, so they're not completely anti-rock.
They do okay with crossover/emo-Rock by young bands like Panic At The Disco, or New Wave-friendly bands like the Killers.
They usually don't do well with schmaltzy Southern Pop Rock, or Midwestern AC/Rock, hence why you don't hear much Nickleback or Hinder on the station. Those bands are HUGE nationally on CHR, and might do okay on a different CHR in L.A. (if it had one). However, they're not big on KIIS-FM. For schmaltz, KIIS-FM relies on RBD and Paula Deanda ;D

 

[john77]

BTW, KIIS-FM is now playing both My Chemical Romance and Fallout Boy on their station, so they're not completely anti-rock.
They do okay with crossover/emo-Rock by young bands like Panic At The Disco, or New Wave-friendly bands like the Killers.
They usually don't do well with schmaltzy Southern Pop Rock, or Midwestern AC/Rock, hence why you don't hear much Nickleback or Hinder on the station. Those bands are HUGE nationally on CHR, and might do okay on a different CHR in L.A. (if it had one). However, they're not big on KIIS-FM. For schmaltz, KIIS-FM relies on RBD and Paula Deanda ;D

The thing is the same people that like PATD, AAR and the Killers also tend to like the "schamltzy rock" find of stuff. Personally, I think it's just the PD having something against the current crop of new rock oriented songs. I mean it almost took an act of congress to even get them to play Natasha Bedingfield and James Blunt for crying out loud.

KIIS though does play some of that "schmaltzy" Rock as recurrents... Nickelback's "How You Remind Me" is still there, despite KIIS not playing any of the 3 top 10 hits off their current album. Avril Lavigne's always has gotten a lot of support from them, but the way they are now, I'd be very surprised if they play her current single "Keep Holding On", or the upcoming "Girlfriend" single off her next album.

I don't mind the RBD track... or Chris Brown's new one for that matter, but that Paula DeAnda stuff gets pretty bland after awhile.

 

[CHRles]

You're going to blame the PD, John Ivey???? Dude, he's one of THE best programmers in the country.
The L.A. radio landscape is extremely competitive, yet he's been able to keep KIIS-FM on top, both in the ratings and in the revenue.

John, I feel you on what KIIS-FM should ideally sound like, being that they are the only CHR in the market, but the station has to do what is best for itself and for its CORE listeners.
While it would be great if KIIS-FM musically sounded like Kiss 108 Boston, Z-100 New York, 93.3 FLZ Tampa, 106.1 Kiss FM Dallas, Hot 99.5 Washington, or 101.3 KDWB Minneapolis, the ratings might not be as strong.
It's not like Channel 933 San Diego sounds all that different from KIIS:
http://www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=KHTS-FM

You also can't ignore the fact that San Francisco doesn't have a CHR, and Fresno just lost its CHR. There is 107.9 The End in Sacramento, which is very musically balanced, but they're not doing quite as good as KIIS.

 

[CHRles]

BTW, if Emmis or some other company really wanted to stick it to CC they might launch an Adult friendly CHR like this:
http://www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=KQMQ-FM

 

[spongebag7890]

Has anyone else noticed that KIIS FM in L.A. seems to not be acting like a CHR station? They seem to be "artist focused" like an AOR station, rather than "song focused" like a CHR station is supposed to be.

For example, they've missed out on several huge hits from a variety of formats and styles, ranging from Nickelback to Cascada to the Fray and Hinder... yet, they have no problem playing subpar songs from the likes of Gwen Stefani, Ciara, etc even if they are like the 4th or 5th tracks from an album. This is what an AOR station does, not a CHR. Ultimately, this will end up hurting KIIS FM's ratings.

Ok, I know you're going to hate me for saying this but CC and Kiss don't really care if you hate the station because they are programming 18-24 females that live in LA.

Fray...Hinder...Nickelback...DO. NOT. WORK. Actually rethinking some music by The Fray might work but not very much. The reason is that LA is not a market for Hot AC rock on a CHR station. Although this works in hundreds of thousands of cities, not LA due to the fact that their market is really...how do I say this...preppy (even then that doesn't work) and does not like hard rock. The only rock that works is MTV rock like Cartel, Fall Out Boy, P!ATD, and My Chemical Romance...emo bands. And because of its lightness, the station tends to lean towards R&B and lite-Rhythmic like Cherish, Ne-Yo, Sean Paul, Gwen Stefani, Beyonce, etc. That's why Omarion's "Ice Box", RBD's "Tu Amor", and Bow Wow's "Shortie Like Mine" did so well on this station. Also Rhythmic-lite and hip-hop that you can dance to works well, which explains "Get Up", "Ay Chico", and "The Yummy Song" did better than most other stations.

And although KIIS is very artist focused, it does in fact play what listeners like. LA, like other CA city San Diego, are too very, very light (or preppy or beach or w.e. you wish to call it) markets. KIIS does not like playing Urban that is not R&B or any rock that is not hyped by MTV.

 

[CHRles]

Great comments there Spongebag. Don't forget the 106.7 K-Rock influence (the station had a huge influence on MTV in the 90s), and Star 98.7.

John, anothre Adult Leaning CHR that might work for L.A. to counter KIIS-FM is Q-102 Cincinnati:
http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=WKRQ-FM

Or if you really want to hit them with a big city sound, give the market a Dance friendly CHR like Z-103.5 Toronto and Halifax:
http://www.z1035.com/ they have a 32 K stream http://69.90.16.42:81/z103.5_FM

http://z103halifax.com/ has a 32 K stream as well http://z103halifax.com/halifax.asx

 

[p_herring]

BTW, KIIS-FM is now playing both My Chemical Romance and Fallout Boy on their station, so they're not completely anti-rock.
They do okay with crossover/emo-Rock by young bands like Panic At The Disco, or New Wave-friendly bands like the Killers.
They usually don't do well with schmaltzy Southern Pop Rock, or Midwestern AC/Rock, hence why you don't hear much Nickleback or Hinder on the station. Those bands are HUGE nationally on CHR, and might do okay on a different CHR in L.A. (if it had one). However, they're not big on KIIS-FM. For schmaltz, KIIS-FM relies on RBD and Paula Deanda ;D

The thing is the same people that like PATD, AAR and the Killers also tend to like the "schamltzy rock" find of stuff. Personally, I think it's just the PD having something against the current crop of new rock oriented songs. I mean it almost took an act of congress to even get them to play Natasha Bedingfield and James Blunt for crying out loud.

KIIS though does play some of that "schmaltzy" Rock as recurrents... Nickelback's "How You Remind Me" is still there, despite KIIS not playing any of the 3 top 10 hits off their current album. Avril Lavigne's always has gotten a lot of support from them, but the way they are now, I'd be very surprised if they play her current single "Keep Holding On", or the upcoming "Girlfriend" single off her next album.

I don't mind the RBD track... or Chris Brown's new one for that matter, but that Paula DeAnda stuff gets pretty bland after awhile.

Actually, most fans of FOB, AAR and P!ATD probably don't care much for Nickelback or Hinder. Those bands all have up-tempo, sugar-high feels and the top 40 fans of those bands probably like more rhythmic leaning acts.

 

[john77]

BTW, if Emmis or some other company really wanted to stick it to CC they might launch an Adult friendly CHR like this:
http://www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=KQMQ-FM

That's a nicely balanced CHR if I've ever seen one... only change is I'd tone down the 7 heavys a little... get them out of 2 hour to maybe every 2.4 hrs or so...

Yup... someone should definitely attempt to stick it to CC out here... they really need it!!!

 

[john77]

Thanks for the responses... but honestly, I think most of you are missing the core of my argument here...

My main point being that CHR is supposed to be a "music intensive" format... but KIIS is treating it as an "artist intensive" format like the old AOR stations used to be...

For example, KIIS will jump all over the next so-so/flop track by Gwen Stefani ("Crash", "Wind It Up" and "the Sweet Escape") or Christina Aguilera. With Christina ANOM was a flop in spite of the pay for play it was getting. "Hurt" though is a hit (the callout has been supporting it all along). I'm sure they will be on "Candyman" as soon as it goes to radio in February - that one smells like and sounds like a flop if I've ever heard one... Yet they will ignore stuff that should work there and fit in and be hits like Cascada's "Everytime We Touch"... I might add though, that CC did play that Cascada song on their AC, KOST of all places!

The main reason they aren't playing the Fray, Hinder, Nickelback and other rock-oriented stuff is because that is Star's music and they don't a lot of overlap in listeners... it's silly, but that's how CC works the L.A. cluster.

 

[john77]

Has anyone else noticed that KIIS FM in L.A. seems to not be acting like a CHR station? They seem to be "artist focused" like an AOR station, rather than "song focused" like a CHR station is supposed to be.

For example, they've missed out on several huge hits from a variety of formats and styles, ranging from Nickelback to Cascada to the Fray and Hinder... yet, they have no problem playing subpar songs from the likes of Gwen Stefani, Ciara, etc even if they are like the 4th or 5th tracks from an album. This is what an AOR station does, not a CHR. Ultimately, this will end up hurting KIIS FM's ratings.

Ok, I know you're going to hate me for saying this but CC and Kiss don't really care if you hate the station because they are programming 18-24 females that live in LA.

Fray...Hinder...Nickelback...DO. NOT. WORK. Actually rethinking some music by The Fray might work but not very much. The reason is that LA is not a market for Hot AC rock on a CHR station. Although this works in hundreds of thousands of cities, not LA due to the fact that their market is really...how do I say this...preppy (even then that doesn't work) and does not like hard rock. The only rock that works is MTV rock like Cartel, Fall Out Boy, P!ATD, and My Chemical Romance...emo bands. And because of its lightness, the station tends to lean towards R&B and lite-Rhythmic like Cherish, Ne-Yo, Sean Paul, Gwen Stefani, Beyonce, etc. That's why Omarion's "Ice Box", RBD's "Tu Amor", and Bow Wow's "Shortie Like Mine" did so well on this station. Also Rhythmic-lite and hip-hop that you can dance to works well, which explains "Get Up", "Ay Chico", and "The Yummy Song" did better than most other stations.

And although KIIS is very artist focused, it does in fact play what listeners like. LA, like other CA city San Diego, are too very, very light (or preppy or beach or w.e. you wish to call it) markets. KIIS does not like playing Urban that is not R&B or any rock that is not hyped by MTV.

I'm not going to hate on you for posting this... though I gotta say, I do wonder about the relevance of MTV today with radio's listeners, especially in this market... Amidst all the other stuff, Fall Out Boy, P!ATD, and My Chemical Romance really do sound out of place there. There was a time when KIIS used to daypart stuff and the Fray & Nickelback type of stuff would do just fine in the midday shift as their listening audience is a little older that time of the day...

 

[shuckzyo]

With Christina ANOM was a flop in spite of the pay for play it was getting

A) You can't prove payola, because that song was not payola-driven.

B) You call a #7 peak a "flop?" [EDIT] if you call a song that made the Top 10 (for a good amount of time at that) a "flop."


[EDIT-inflammatory]

 

[shuckzyo]

it's silly, but that's how CC works the L.A. cluster.

In a market that size, with that kind of REVENUE at stake, that's called being SMART. You don't risk cannibalizing one station by playing its core artists/records on another in the cluster.

Once again, you've proven that you don't know anywhere NEAR what you think you do about how radio really works. But, after seeing your posts on the Pulse Music board, it doesn't surprise me.

 

[spongebag7890]

A lot of stations previously leaned to MTV pop-punk in the 80s and 90s. Also, MTV is kind of a pop-culture thing. If it's big on MTV then its big with the prep market of LA.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

The overwhelming percentage of radio station programming is cluster-driven (defensive programming) as opposed to having the mandate to have YOUR station grab the largest possible audience that it can.

When a PD or programming VP of a station which has either just been launched or flipped to another format comes out with a line to the effect that 'we welcome this station (and its new format) to our cluster, as long as it won't hurt any of the other stations in our cluster', you KNOW that such a station will have a VERY narrow niche in that market, and will undoubtedly have a MUCH harder time getting huge ratings, in the case of most of the formats out there.

That 'strategy' leads to VERY safe, VERY narrow and VERY conservative programming targeting a VERY small niche, and nowhere is that narrowing of the target audience evident than at CHR/Pop, and the ratings in market after market certainly prove it.

That's partially why CHR/Pop is no longer a mass-appeal format, which has been the case for may years.

 

[john77]

The overwhelming percentage of radio station programming is cluster-driven (defensive programming) as opposed to having the mandate to have YOUR station grab the largest possible audience that it can.

When a PD or programming VP of a station which has either just been launched or flipped to another format comes out with a line to the effect that 'we welcome this station (and its new format) to our cluster, as long as it won't hurt any of the other stations in our cluster', you KNOW that such a station will have a VERY narrow niche in that market, and will undoubtedly have a MUCH harder time getting huge ratings, in the case of most of the formats out there.

That 'strategy' leads to VERY safe, VERY narrow and VERY conservative programming targeting a VERY small niche, and nowhere is that narrowing of the target audience evident than at CHR/Pop, and the ratings in market after market certainly prove it.

That's partially why CHR/Pop is no longer a mass-appeal format, which has been the case for may years.

Bingo!!! This is EXACTLY the point I've been trying to get across.

 

[john77]

With Christina ANOM was a flop in spite of the pay for play it was getting

A) You can't prove payola, because that song was not payola-driven.

B) You call a #7 peak a "flop?" [EDIT] if you call a song that made the Top 10 (for a good amount of time at that) a "flop."


[EDIT-inflammatory]

Check out the chart run of ANOM... It may have peaked at #7, but in reality it wouldn't have gotten there without the label's "push"...

...And while you're at it, check out Mario Vazquez' "Gallery" which failed to even get it's album into the top 200 despite being a #6 CHR hit...

Both of these songs I have cited had VERY abnormal chart runs. Trust me, I study the charts more than anything and these two songs exhibited very peculiar behavior... something fishy was going on with both.

 

[spongebag7890]

With Christina ANOM was a flop in spite of the pay for play it was getting

A) You can't prove payola, because that song was not payola-driven.

B) You call a #7 peak a "flop?" [EDIT] if you call a song that made the Top 10 (for a good amount of time at that) a "flop."


[EDIT-inflammatory]

Check out the chart run of ANOM... It may have peaked at #7, but in reality it wouldn't have gotten there without the label's "push"...

...And while you're at it, check out Mario Vazquez' "Gallery" which failed to even get it's album into the top 200 despite being a #6 CHR hit...

Both of these songs I have cited had VERY abnormal chart runs. Trust me, I study the charts more than anything and these two songs exhibited very peculiar behavior... something fishy was going on with both.

Disagree with ANOM, agree with "Gallery". "Gallery" stayed in the top 20 for a long time in May/June, then randomly jumped to #6 in July, then fell like a rock in August. Too odd.

For something a bit more recent, "Money Maker" looks weird as well. It peaked a bit too fast and too high, especially for a Ludacris track, and now seems to be staying comfortable (or too comfortable) in the #12-16 range. Seems like it did the big peak just for promotion.

 

[Jay F]

When John Ivey first arrived KIIS played a lot of rock and pop product. I remember some people on this board being surprised how much they overlaped with sister station STAR. Being a balanced CHR playing "all the hits" did not work for KIIS as their ratings hit rock bottom.

Shifting to a rhythmic leaning CHR that basically plays one rock song an hour was pure genius. Not only did this push KIIS to the top of the ratings, it was a contributing factor for the significant decline of KPWR. For years POWER 106 had a large segment of 18-34 women by default. POWER might have been too thuggish for some women but it was a better option than all of the midwestern sounding pop/rock on KIIS. As soon as KIIS shifted towards a rhythmic lean, many women switched from KPWR to KIIS.