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KING FM
- Thread starter jensenbay
- Start date
S
SeattleRadioPro
Guest
http://crosscut.com/2009/10/01/arts-beat/19272/
It's an interesting read - especially if the board does go ahead with the "hybrid" option.
It's an interesting read - especially if the board does go ahead with the "hybrid" option.
I don't know if Fisher has paid for focus group research or call-outs to test audience reactions beyond Arbitron data, but it's crucial in a fine arts format to super-serve your core audience, and to know how to grow that core by becoming an important part of those listener's days and nights. It's about more than just playing music and commercials. And selling the format involves long term relationships with advertisers, and some classier clients than a lot of what listeners have to sit thru on KING-FM.
As I hear it, hosting a classical format has to be adult, intimate, honest, and worth listening to. Commercials, if that's how you're funding it, have to not completely ruin the mood of the music sets, and need to be incidental to the programming, not the other way around. (So this means you will have to sometimes reject some ads for casinos and discount warehouse outlets that shout and have silly jingles. Sorry, but that's one thing you're likely to find from researching KING-FM listeners. "Would I ever play this thru the loudspeakers at the Symphony and expect to not get booed?.")
A non-commercial option may end up being one of the few ways to honor the format. There are several national shows that ought to air on KING-FM. I'm told they replace the announcing on some of the national symphony broadcasts with their local announcers. Not sure why they felt the need, and am assuming with layoffs that practice will thankfully stop.
KDFC in San Francisco is a good example of how to do commercial classical well, but KING-FM doesn't really emulate their "spirit" very well. The station's not just for music majors, but not dumbed down like CBC Radio Two is now where their hosts compare everything to filmtrack and cartoon scores.
ANd there are hundreds of examples of how to make the format pay for itself and servce the public interest in a non-commercial business model.
Maybe it's the difference in the level of sophistication in San Francisco vs Seattle; might be it's a corporate culture thing holding back the station from being a fantastic fine arts outlet.
(As one who enjoys all types of classical music, I think KING-FM's fairly OK, but few of the announcers pull me in to listen between the CD tracks. Wish they'd exhale a little more often.)
Perhaps the relationship with Fisher has some real negatives for the programming on KING-FM that a good sales and public relations effort can do better. I'm not convinced they know how to sell a classical audience to advertisers -- just seems to be the same spots you hear on KOMO. But it doesn't look like Beethoven foundation is up for investing in their own staff, either.
So... I'd suggest a noncommmercial option airing non-comm services such as Classical 24 and some of the national shows and maybe a couple of local hosts in drive time and maybe midday, and part of the weekends to help talk about local events Sure, it will not be easy to pull off, but isn't brain surgery, either. Seattle deserves a decent classical music station, and a few changes to KING-FM 98.1 will encourage loyal listeners to contribute financially.
Or some other creative funding ideas will work that don't involve sacrificing another classical music station to the same old pop/rock/rap dreck the big corporate guys dish out.
Best of luck, y'all.
As I hear it, hosting a classical format has to be adult, intimate, honest, and worth listening to. Commercials, if that's how you're funding it, have to not completely ruin the mood of the music sets, and need to be incidental to the programming, not the other way around. (So this means you will have to sometimes reject some ads for casinos and discount warehouse outlets that shout and have silly jingles. Sorry, but that's one thing you're likely to find from researching KING-FM listeners. "Would I ever play this thru the loudspeakers at the Symphony and expect to not get booed?.")
A non-commercial option may end up being one of the few ways to honor the format. There are several national shows that ought to air on KING-FM. I'm told they replace the announcing on some of the national symphony broadcasts with their local announcers. Not sure why they felt the need, and am assuming with layoffs that practice will thankfully stop.
KDFC in San Francisco is a good example of how to do commercial classical well, but KING-FM doesn't really emulate their "spirit" very well. The station's not just for music majors, but not dumbed down like CBC Radio Two is now where their hosts compare everything to filmtrack and cartoon scores.
ANd there are hundreds of examples of how to make the format pay for itself and servce the public interest in a non-commercial business model.
Maybe it's the difference in the level of sophistication in San Francisco vs Seattle; might be it's a corporate culture thing holding back the station from being a fantastic fine arts outlet.
(As one who enjoys all types of classical music, I think KING-FM's fairly OK, but few of the announcers pull me in to listen between the CD tracks. Wish they'd exhale a little more often.)
Perhaps the relationship with Fisher has some real negatives for the programming on KING-FM that a good sales and public relations effort can do better. I'm not convinced they know how to sell a classical audience to advertisers -- just seems to be the same spots you hear on KOMO. But it doesn't look like Beethoven foundation is up for investing in their own staff, either.
So... I'd suggest a noncommmercial option airing non-comm services such as Classical 24 and some of the national shows and maybe a couple of local hosts in drive time and maybe midday, and part of the weekends to help talk about local events Sure, it will not be easy to pull off, but isn't brain surgery, either. Seattle deserves a decent classical music station, and a few changes to KING-FM 98.1 will encourage loyal listeners to contribute financially.
Or some other creative funding ideas will work that don't involve sacrificing another classical music station to the same old pop/rock/rap dreck the big corporate guys dish out.
Best of luck, y'all.
Goldilocks94941 said:
From what I understand, Fisher has a local sales agreement with the organization that owns/operates KING-FM. A sales agreement does not include programming. That's why they call it.... 'a sales agreement'.
I've been involved with similar agreements with for-profit operations and would have loved to have some control of programming. The obvious reason being you have at least some control over the content one has to sell. Unfortunately an arrangement with a 501-C3, this is hardly ever the case.
[/quote]
I've been involved with similar agreements with for-profit operations and would have loved to have some control of programming. The obvious reason being you have at least some control over the content one has to sell. Unfortunately an arrangement with a 501-C3, this is hardly ever the case.
[/quote]
You've hit the nail on the head. The above statement is exactly what's wrong with radio today. The sales guys got control of programming.
Not some control, near total control. You can count on one had the number of programming people who are at or near the top of the major radio companies.
There was always a struggle between programming and sales, but smart owners knew it was best to keep the two sides of their operations somewhat seperated. But now, it's all sales guys at the top of companies, and they've ruined the product. Now they're all sitting around scratching their heads wondering why sales are down?
I've been involved with similar agreements with for-profit operations and would have loved to have some control of programming. The obvious reason being you have at least some control over the content one has to sell. Unfortunately an arrangement with a 501-C3, this is hardly ever the case.
[/quote]
You've hit the nail on the head. The above statement is exactly what's wrong with radio today. The sales guys got control of programming.
Not some control, near total control. You can count on one had the number of programming people who are at or near the top of the major radio companies.
There was always a struggle between programming and sales, but smart owners knew it was best to keep the two sides of their operations somewhat seperated. But now, it's all sales guys at the top of companies, and they've ruined the product. Now they're all sitting around scratching their heads wondering why sales are down?
I can appreciate that it might be a bit awkward at time for the sales force at Fisher to sell advertising on KING-FM. I'm curious, as Guru mentioned above, what some of you would suggest be done differently at KING-FM to make it a more solid classical music outlet and a modest commercial success. They've obviously got to do some serious thinking pretty soon about possibilitiesi for the station. Guru, let us in on your thinking as to what you wish KING-FM would do differently. And the rest of you (as long as you don't just despite fine arts and want the format liquidated), what say ye?
I'm not going to even pretend to be some armchair programming expert, because in reality I only work on the business side of broadcasting. I do however have observations based on comparisons with other successful classical music stations across the country noticed in my frequent travels to major cities where I have access to ratings:
Long-standing classical music stations such as KUSC in my home town of Los Angeles, WETA in Washington D.C. and WRTI Philadelphia, PA, are all public stations, so the comparison may not be fair. However as for music, one thing stands out as compared to KING in Seattle at least musically speaking; these aforementioned successful stations in larger markets 'play the classical hits'. Now before you launch into me with here goes the Guru carrying the corporate party line, go onto I-Tunes streaming or compare the music selections on stations I mentioned here with KING-FM. KING delves much further into more of the vast depths of esoteric selections one could find in classical music, and I believe that really hurts them.
KING also has in the past, had air talent rattle on about station promotions or in an attempt to be whispering-DJ's which sound creepy and fake. Speak like an adult and in a conversational tone.
The other differences I've noticed included on "popular" classical stations include 5-6 minute TOH news with local news people during drive time and national (NPR or BBC), news every other TOH at night. Classic music listeners fancy themselves as a more intellectual sort and want to be kept informed. I suggest that providing brief news hits would increase TSL. Of course this issue may be moot if KING can't afford to hire two local news people, however one could argue that doing so would be investing in the product with a sponsor-able news segment which could hopefully at least cover expenses.
Finally, running spots that were created for the local Fisher stations sound out of place on a classical music station. In my view, spots on KING-FM need to be sound more like underwriting announcements or live-reads from the hosts. Spots with music jingles should re-cut as voice only.
Long-standing classical music stations such as KUSC in my home town of Los Angeles, WETA in Washington D.C. and WRTI Philadelphia, PA, are all public stations, so the comparison may not be fair. However as for music, one thing stands out as compared to KING in Seattle at least musically speaking; these aforementioned successful stations in larger markets 'play the classical hits'. Now before you launch into me with here goes the Guru carrying the corporate party line, go onto I-Tunes streaming or compare the music selections on stations I mentioned here with KING-FM. KING delves much further into more of the vast depths of esoteric selections one could find in classical music, and I believe that really hurts them.
KING also has in the past, had air talent rattle on about station promotions or in an attempt to be whispering-DJ's which sound creepy and fake. Speak like an adult and in a conversational tone.
The other differences I've noticed included on "popular" classical stations include 5-6 minute TOH news with local news people during drive time and national (NPR or BBC), news every other TOH at night. Classic music listeners fancy themselves as a more intellectual sort and want to be kept informed. I suggest that providing brief news hits would increase TSL. Of course this issue may be moot if KING can't afford to hire two local news people, however one could argue that doing so would be investing in the product with a sponsor-able news segment which could hopefully at least cover expenses.
Finally, running spots that were created for the local Fisher stations sound out of place on a classical music station. In my view, spots on KING-FM need to be sound more like underwriting announcements or live-reads from the hosts. Spots with music jingles should re-cut as voice only.
TVradioguru said:
It would be helpful if they weren't taking those low-dollar, low brow radio ads that I don't appreciate on any station... as well. Hydroxatone? Select Quote anyone?
The "hybrid donor radio model" suggested in the article is really the only solution for KING-FM. If the station is sold arts groups get their money each year from the interest on the 15 million, unless investments don't deliver the 3-5% interest. If the station changes to a "competitive" format, arts groups get their money, but the city loses its classical station. PPM shows a small but loyal KING audience. Seems reasonable that they would pay for classical music, commercial free. The question is: can you generate enough money to survive, let alone give anything back to the arts? The current format, from a radio sales perspective cannot generate enough advertising support based on it's ratings. It would be hard to increase ratings in this niche format without spending a great deal of money. Catch-22.
The programming/revenue process for a niche station like KING involves making a lot of value and strategic choices.
For example, do you want to be 24/7 consistent or adopt a "block" model. 24/7 consistent means you are likely going to be serving a loyal core and you count on that core to sustain the station (advertiser support, pledge, etc.). If you go with block, you have the potential to extend the audience ... but possibly at the cost of losing some core when they tune in at random times and are dissatisfied. For example, ways of educating people about classical music is a way to reach new listeners...but the hardcores will perceive you are talking down to them ... OR they may find such context useful. VH-1, for example, would lose their $$$ in the ratings whenever they played MUSIC!! But when they started shows like "Behind the Music" the ratings soared...they packaged it as they put the music in CONTEXT to develop new viewers.
Another choice is what models would sustain the station, as mentioned on the board. Each choice has pro's and con's ... a hybrid being a way of equally "settling" or equally "offending" depending on how you look at it. But it's NECESSARY, unless some benefactor steps up and says "here's a check" for five more years.
I think the choice that faces all classical stations more than anything .. is "what flavor do you want to be"? Perhaps a syndication plus local model is a way to cut costs and still provide the format, allowing for some blocks where you feature local symphony, etc. But, in my naive thinking, it's a way to deliver the essence of the format on a national basis and seems to sustain stations like Salem enough to OPERATE. The issue of serving the local arts community, as envisioned in the Bullitt Foundation two and a half decades ago has faced some new environmental changes (slight irony there!) that people in mid 80's did not perceive, such as mobile stand alone, HD, satellite radio, Internet, etc. All seem to be the preferred method of delivering a niche, and sadly, Classical IS becoming a niche.
Another model is to explore the concept of "arts-driven" stations combining forces, which is the original CBC model in Canada. That might take shape of a collection of niche formats run under the same umbrella ... such as KPLU, KING, KWJZ ... forgetting, of course, the PRACTICAL issues of commercial vs. noncommercial, etc. Another cut is sharing audience ... which would make a KUOW and KING combo more practical. Interesting, isn't it, that KUOW is essentially talk and has had success as an FM for many years while the AM-based talkers continue to struggle and KIRO-FM can't get the traction the envisioned. So not really about AM/FM as much as it is about figuring out what is of interest to your core audience and delivering it.
Whether that audience is LARGE enough to sustain a station is one question, and whether you can do it these days "on the cheap" is the other. But if you make the customers happy, they stay loyal. We've said that in these parts for years ... but it's not reaching Wall Street.
For example, do you want to be 24/7 consistent or adopt a "block" model. 24/7 consistent means you are likely going to be serving a loyal core and you count on that core to sustain the station (advertiser support, pledge, etc.). If you go with block, you have the potential to extend the audience ... but possibly at the cost of losing some core when they tune in at random times and are dissatisfied. For example, ways of educating people about classical music is a way to reach new listeners...but the hardcores will perceive you are talking down to them ... OR they may find such context useful. VH-1, for example, would lose their $$$ in the ratings whenever they played MUSIC!! But when they started shows like "Behind the Music" the ratings soared...they packaged it as they put the music in CONTEXT to develop new viewers.
Another choice is what models would sustain the station, as mentioned on the board. Each choice has pro's and con's ... a hybrid being a way of equally "settling" or equally "offending" depending on how you look at it. But it's NECESSARY, unless some benefactor steps up and says "here's a check" for five more years.
I think the choice that faces all classical stations more than anything .. is "what flavor do you want to be"? Perhaps a syndication plus local model is a way to cut costs and still provide the format, allowing for some blocks where you feature local symphony, etc. But, in my naive thinking, it's a way to deliver the essence of the format on a national basis and seems to sustain stations like Salem enough to OPERATE. The issue of serving the local arts community, as envisioned in the Bullitt Foundation two and a half decades ago has faced some new environmental changes (slight irony there!) that people in mid 80's did not perceive, such as mobile stand alone, HD, satellite radio, Internet, etc. All seem to be the preferred method of delivering a niche, and sadly, Classical IS becoming a niche.
Another model is to explore the concept of "arts-driven" stations combining forces, which is the original CBC model in Canada. That might take shape of a collection of niche formats run under the same umbrella ... such as KPLU, KING, KWJZ ... forgetting, of course, the PRACTICAL issues of commercial vs. noncommercial, etc. Another cut is sharing audience ... which would make a KUOW and KING combo more practical. Interesting, isn't it, that KUOW is essentially talk and has had success as an FM for many years while the AM-based talkers continue to struggle and KIRO-FM can't get the traction the envisioned. So not really about AM/FM as much as it is about figuring out what is of interest to your core audience and delivering it.
Whether that audience is LARGE enough to sustain a station is one question, and whether you can do it these days "on the cheap" is the other. But if you make the customers happy, they stay loyal. We've said that in these parts for years ... but it's not reaching Wall Street.
K
kyliebastel
Guest
It says it all about the state of radio when, five years ago, you could have unloaded KING for $70 million and now you're lucky if you get $20 million.
Those are $50 million that will never be recovered. The market for radio stations will not rebound. Sorry, cool cats.
If Beethoven doesn't sell tomorrow they'll just have to sell 10 years from now when the price will be down to $5 million.
The only solution is to sell the thing, split the revenue 28/28/28 between ArtsFund, the Opera and the Symphony, then kick 16% of the proceeds to KXOT-FM in exchange for a guarantee that they'll reformat as a fine arts station and give the three groups X number of free underwriting announcements per week - split between KXOT and KUOW - in perpetuity.
Those are $50 million that will never be recovered. The market for radio stations will not rebound. Sorry, cool cats.
If Beethoven doesn't sell tomorrow they'll just have to sell 10 years from now when the price will be down to $5 million.
The only solution is to sell the thing, split the revenue 28/28/28 between ArtsFund, the Opera and the Symphony, then kick 16% of the proceeds to KXOT-FM in exchange for a guarantee that they'll reformat as a fine arts station and give the three groups X number of free underwriting announcements per week - split between KXOT and KUOW - in perpetuity.
K
kyliebastel
Guest
KYLIE'S SOLUTION IN-DEPTH:
1. Sell KING-FM for $18,000,000 to Bonneville since they like to make bad investments.
2. Give $5M each to ArtsFund, the Seattle Symphony and the Seattle Opera to do with as they like.
3. Kick $3M to KXOT-FM as follows:
a. $1,000,000 is an exchange for a guaranteed re-formatting of the station to fine arts programming for a minimum of 16 hours per day for 10 years (even if it's just PRI's syndicated classical music service) and a guaranteed 2-hour weekly, locally hosted fine arts "public affairs" show.
b. $1,000,000 purchases 10 underwriting spots on KUOW and KXOT each week for 10 years, to be shared between ArtsFund, the Symphony and the Opera.
c. $1,000,000 endows a technical fund to finance continued live broadcasts of St. Mark's Compline Choir on Sunday's, plus 12 other events annually designated, 4 each by ArtsFund, the Symphony and the Opera.
4. Take the KING call letters over to KXOT.
KXOT would only have to hire 1 or 2 full-time air talent to run this station. Maybe like a morning drive-time DJ and then a floater who handled the live broadcasts, fill-ins, etc.
Kylie should be the Dictator of All-Seattle Radio.
Who's voting for Kylie as Dictator of All-Seattle Radio? TONGUE SMILEY LIPS BOOTYSHAKE SMILEY
1. Sell KING-FM for $18,000,000 to Bonneville since they like to make bad investments.
2. Give $5M each to ArtsFund, the Seattle Symphony and the Seattle Opera to do with as they like.
3. Kick $3M to KXOT-FM as follows:
a. $1,000,000 is an exchange for a guaranteed re-formatting of the station to fine arts programming for a minimum of 16 hours per day for 10 years (even if it's just PRI's syndicated classical music service) and a guaranteed 2-hour weekly, locally hosted fine arts "public affairs" show.
b. $1,000,000 purchases 10 underwriting spots on KUOW and KXOT each week for 10 years, to be shared between ArtsFund, the Symphony and the Opera.
c. $1,000,000 endows a technical fund to finance continued live broadcasts of St. Mark's Compline Choir on Sunday's, plus 12 other events annually designated, 4 each by ArtsFund, the Symphony and the Opera.
4. Take the KING call letters over to KXOT.
KXOT would only have to hire 1 or 2 full-time air talent to run this station. Maybe like a morning drive-time DJ and then a floater who handled the live broadcasts, fill-ins, etc.
Kylie should be the Dictator of All-Seattle Radio.
Who's voting for Kylie as Dictator of All-Seattle Radio? TONGUE SMILEY LIPS BOOTYSHAKE SMILEY
kyliebastel said:
HICCUP...HICCUP...GAG...GAG.....PUUUUUUUUUUKKKKKKEEEEEEEE
K
kyliebastel
Guest
Bongwater said:
Of course it won't happen, that's why ray-dee-oh is deader than one of my BFs (who shall remain nameless) if I find him trying to sneak out for another menage a sept without inviting me again. ANGRY FROWN SHOCKED
K
kyliebastel
Guest
ai4i said:
LMAO! No one on this board has made it onto Kylie's "guest list" yet but a few of the studs here are angling for an invite! SMILEY WINK SHOCKED JAZZDANCE TONGUE LIPS KISS SMILEY
Hey, what ever became of KMZT (was that it? K-MOZART) down in LA? Are they still kicking around? Last time Kylie was in LaLa-Land she couldn't find them on the dial.
Oh, you must mean the all new "Go Country". Mozart may or may not still be on their HD2, but "Classical Southern California, KUSC" has never rolled in this much dough. Between their lost competition and their network of class A and B stations throughout the region, they are APMG's darling child.kyliebastel said:
K
kyliebastel
Guest
ai4i said:
UGH! That's awful to hear. KUSC always had pathetic programming ... it always seems like they just play the 100 most recognizable classical pieces from Movies and Commercials over and over; Kylie CAN'T LISTEN TO RHAPSODY IN BLUE AND MOONLIGHT SONATA ANYMORE! KUSC always struck me as the classical music station for people who really don't like classical music but want to pretend they do. Very low-brow.
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