semoochie said:
It appears you are right AM is dying a faster death each day.
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It appears you are right AM is dying a faster death each day.
S
SeattleRadioPro
Guest
TVradioguru said:
Or better yet - stop blovaiting on a message board about "how you can do better radio" and put your money where your mouth is. Go buy KKNW from Sandusky, get the engineering work done to upgrade the array and then show us all how right you were.
I'd say we'd sooner see you in bankruptcy court before we'd see a success on 1150 without running paid programming.
Bongwater said:
AM isn't down for the count, but it's very beatup.
R
radioprofessor
Guest
The AM Radio parameter is hardly down for the count. If you look at the list of top billing stations in just about every market in the country you will see at least two AM stations at the top of the list. KIIS is number one in billing nationally, but WINZ, WBBM, KGO, KFI and WFAN are also on the top 20 list. Each of these stations is perfectly suited to their market, in my humble view. They have large news gathering staff's and plenty of local talk talent. They invest in the product and they win. It is not about AM or FM, it is about programming content. For AM it is driven by spoken word and big sticks that serve large areas, even states. For FM it is about music programming for core cities. I am not convinced that spoken word on FM is better given the signal strength of AM powerhouses to extend coverage and deliver direct results for advertisers. Only WTOP-FM has really proven success and it really had no AM news competitor in DC.
In Seattle, KIRO-AM was the number two billing station in Seattle, without the FM. KIRO-AM will probably be top five this year if you add in the Mariners dollars. KOMO-AM is a top ten biller. Many say it is a foregone conclusion that KIRO-FM will rule the spoken word in Seattle. KIRO-AM, KTTH-AM, KOMO-AM, KJR-AM and KVI-AM may surprise you in the PPM, in my humble view. This is providing these stations invest in content and marketing. The real surprise may be KUOW that beats them all hands down. Like SF, Seattle is a smart town.
In Seattle, KIRO-AM was the number two billing station in Seattle, without the FM. KIRO-AM will probably be top five this year if you add in the Mariners dollars. KOMO-AM is a top ten biller. Many say it is a foregone conclusion that KIRO-FM will rule the spoken word in Seattle. KIRO-AM, KTTH-AM, KOMO-AM, KJR-AM and KVI-AM may surprise you in the PPM, in my humble view. This is providing these stations invest in content and marketing. The real surprise may be KUOW that beats them all hands down. Like SF, Seattle is a smart town.
radioprofessor said:
Umm, you must mean WINS (New York City). WINZ is in Miami FL and just recently flipped from Progressive talk to, I believe, sports talk. I don't think you would want to use WINZ as any kind of example that other stations/owners would want to emulate.
radioprofessor said:
You're naming specific stations in certain markets that are successful. Clearly the content on those stations work, but is there enough content for the other AMs in those and other markets to keep the rest of the AM stations profitable?
Unlike what Bong seems to read, :
I for one haven't read any posts in this thread from people in the know that are saying AM is yet completely dead-in-the-water. However there is substantial evidence that would indicate listening to the medium is in fairly rapid decline. Through listener perception reseach the main reasons appear to be:
1. New or younger listeners are not coming on board. As pointed out here, the majority of listeners age 12-30 don't listen to AM, let alone know it even exists.
2. Fidelity and signal issues. Having a computer on your desk pretty much eliminates the ability to hear AM stations. Electronic devices cause noise and interference, making the reception of AM difficult to even dyed in the wool AM listeners. AM can't be heard indoors very well. The audio quality sounds inferior as compared to FM or an MP3 player. I'm not sure of the physics involved, but it has something to do with wavelength of the AM band.
Even advertisers think of AM as an inferior medium by comparison. If a local advertiser has trouble hearing their spot or notice the sound quality differences, then they don't want to pay for the ads.
3. AM is very expensive to run by comparison. As mentioned in an earlier post, AM requires a lot of valuable land and uses a lot of electricity to broadcast.
I for one haven't read any posts in this thread from people in the know that are saying AM is yet completely dead-in-the-water. However there is substantial evidence that would indicate listening to the medium is in fairly rapid decline. Through listener perception reseach the main reasons appear to be:1. New or younger listeners are not coming on board. As pointed out here, the majority of listeners age 12-30 don't listen to AM, let alone know it even exists.
2. Fidelity and signal issues. Having a computer on your desk pretty much eliminates the ability to hear AM stations. Electronic devices cause noise and interference, making the reception of AM difficult to even dyed in the wool AM listeners. AM can't be heard indoors very well. The audio quality sounds inferior as compared to FM or an MP3 player. I'm not sure of the physics involved, but it has something to do with wavelength of the AM band.
Even advertisers think of AM as an inferior medium by comparison. If a local advertiser has trouble hearing their spot or notice the sound quality differences, then they don't want to pay for the ads.
3. AM is very expensive to run by comparison. As mentioned in an earlier post, AM requires a lot of valuable land and uses a lot of electricity to broadcast.
TVradioguru said:Unlike what Bong seems to read, :
1. New or younger listeners are not coming on board. As pointed out here, the majority of listeners age 12-30 don't listen to AM, let alone know it even exists.
2. Fidelity and signal issues. Having a computer on your desk pretty much eliminates the ability to hear AM stations. Electronic devices cause noise and interference, making the reception of AM difficult to even dyed in the wool AM listeners. AM can't be heard indoors very well. The audio quality sounds inferior as compared to FM or an MP3 player. I'm not sure of the physics involved, but it has something to do with wavelength of the AM band.
Even advertisers think of AM as an inferior medium by comparison. If a local advertiser has trouble hearing their spot or notice the sound quality differences, then they don't want to pay for the ads.
3. AM is very expensive to run by comparison. As mentioned in an earlier post, AM requires a lot of valuable land and uses a lot of electricity to broadcast.
I think you summed it all up very well.
A
AQH
Guest
TVradioguru said:
Ssssshhhh, don't bring up facts. They're not very well accepted around these parts.
R
radioprofessor
Guest
I beg to differ. The PPM has been quite kind to some AM stations like WINS (ha ha I used to work with WINS years ago and am chuckling at my own typo. ha ha ) WBBM, KFI and especially the sports AM stations are seeing a surprising surge in younger listeners, particularly to the play by play broadcasts. I would argue that while AM does have trouble in offices, creating difficulty in this listening parameter, they do better in cars in areas with hills, valleys, and building issues. This is very evident in SF or even Seattle. The signals also extend reach beyond the FM parameter providing additional listeners outside the normal "rated area". Finally, I would argue that to this point spoken word on FM has been a complete failure. CBS has pulled the plug on most of their "Free-FM" or Hot-Talk stations flipping them back to CHR. In Seattle I believe there was a station called the Buzz that never caught on. There are a couple of examples of success in places like DC, but overall spoken word on FM has not gotten traction. It is the fad idea of the moment, with the notable exception of NPR.The AM dial is alive and well in my humble view. In the PPM it is seeing a resurgence, but the resurgence is limited to the stations with heritage, that invest in their product and have a powerful stick. When it comes to spoken word it is not whether it is AM or FM, it is whether the station is compelling, in my humble view.
semoochie said:
You might want to check your facts. At least according to Tom Taylor's Radio Info' daily feed today which cited the latest figures that showed "Three of New York’s top five billers for 2008 are AMs."
I think the best of Kiro-am should have been move to 770-am. I'm sure Bonniville could pick up another AM cheap and stick the other stuff there, and kept a good classic or another music fromat on 97.3.
Clear C. can't be happy about Kiro 710 sports. Does'nt CC have Rush on contract with Bon. Anyone know when the contract ends?
Could there be changes?
Clear C. can't be happy about Kiro 710 sports. Does'nt CC have Rush on contract with Bon. Anyone know when the contract ends?
Could there be changes?
dunno said:
What?? (shaking head back and fourth then rapping right palm on right ear) Let me see if I get this straight... They should have taken their expensive programming from one of the better AM signals in the market and moved it to an inferior AM signal in the market? And that is a good move how??
Good Lord, some of the posts on this board are freaking unbelievable!
dunno said:
A good possibility. I've always speculated that if KIRO-AM went sports and did anything to KJR, then KJR can yank Limbaugh and lure staff from KTTH or KVI to round out a right wing KJR-AM. Seattle can barely support two such stations and a third will mean 770 has gotta find another niche to go after because because any talk station that loses Limbaugh is gonna have problems. Most don't have the interest or determination KVI had to keep plugging away at it after Limbaugh. And there's nice little niches everywhere for 770. Norwegian death metal is one.
Well your name says it all there doesn't it Dunno? You missed the point. Let me see if I can explain it in super simple terms..
KIRO 710 is an AM station. 770 is an AM station. 710 has a superior signal to 770. Running a news-talk format is expensive to run. In fact, it is the most expensive format one can do. And yes, it is more expensive than Rush and basketball considering they sell out in those time slots, but not the rest of the day.
So why in God's green earth would someone like Bonneville take their news talk format on a superior AM station and move it to a lesser signal ALSO on AM? You see Dunno AM listening is decreasing, so moving from one AM station to another AM station would be silly now wouldn't it? Moving KIRO to FM makes perfect sense, because they can build a new long-lasting audience for the future before the format slides with the decreased listening to AM.
Oldies formats all over the country are changing for the same reason, AM listening is decreasing...old people are the only ones listening. Now I'm sure Bong will come unglued and start some THC induced rambling at this comment; but AM and oldies listeners are dying off and new younger listeners aren't coming in.
KIRO 710 is an AM station. 770 is an AM station. 710 has a superior signal to 770. Running a news-talk format is expensive to run. In fact, it is the most expensive format one can do. And yes, it is more expensive than Rush and basketball considering they sell out in those time slots, but not the rest of the day.
So why in God's green earth would someone like Bonneville take their news talk format on a superior AM station and move it to a lesser signal ALSO on AM? You see Dunno AM listening is decreasing, so moving from one AM station to another AM station would be silly now wouldn't it? Moving KIRO to FM makes perfect sense, because they can build a new long-lasting audience for the future before the format slides with the decreased listening to AM.
Oldies formats all over the country are changing for the same reason, AM listening is decreasing...old people are the only ones listening. Now I'm sure Bong will come unglued and start some THC induced rambling at this comment; but AM and oldies listeners are dying off and new younger listeners aren't coming in.
I agree with your points about the signal. But I tend to side with the RP about how well the talk format will do here on FM. KIRO FM's format is better suited in my opinion on a good AM signal. I also agree that AM is losing audience daily. You disagree, good for you. Well see in a year or two. When the numbers come screamin in big I'll be here to take your ####. God forbid anyone not be in line with you view. BTW, I would have junked all but a couple of the current shows on 97.3.
TVradioguru said:
Granted that's true at night, when KTTH is only 5 kW and Seattle is in its minor lobe to the southeast. In addition, KIRO should be substantially free of interference at night, whereas KTTH probably gets hammered by KKOB. But it may not be true by day: Both KIRO and KTTH run 50 kW during the daytime, and, by day, KTTH is directional to the southeast--TOWARD Seattle and most of the market population. Although KIRO is ND days and its antenna is more efficient, I suspect that KTTH may have a slightly better daytime signal in much of the market--except on the Olympic Peninsula, where KIRO would be better both day and night.
Since I'm 3000 miles away, I can't be sure of this, but from what I can see from the pattern plots and what I believe to be true of the Tx locations, that's how it looks to me.
TVradioguru said:
No, if AM is dying off, then give back the licenses and move all AM programming to FM HD. It would SAVE a lot of money wouldn't it?
Well WOULDN'T IT??
And the FCC can make the AM band a local community radio band.....
Fair enough, eh?
Oh and by the way, THC beats CRACK anyday.....
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