KIRO-AM to go all sports

[Bongwater]

Should KJR be shaking . well, ESPN syndicated shows have been winning L.A. and Chicago mornings for most of the last two years, against major market local shows. Take it for what its worth.

Frankly I'm surprised KIRO wants to telegraph moves planned for April.

They're still trying to transition everybody to FM (which I don't get, most of them were already there within the first week of it's 97.3 simulcast.....)

 

[TVradioguru]

Worst kept secret in Seattle radio. Will set a series of changes in motion I suspect. Clear Channel and Bonneville have no love lost for each other. The war in Phoenix was won by Clear Channel. When KTAR went FM News and KTAR-AM went sports. Clear Channel launched a strong news attack and reinforced 550 KFYI with all of their premiere talent. In the end KTAR went from number one to number ten. KFYI is now the number one station in Phoenix and outbills KTAR, according to my most recent sales figures, almost 2-1.
Expect the same battle in Seattle:

KIRO-AM: All-Sports with Mariners, Seahawks and live shows mornings, afternoons and nights. ESPN the rest of the time
KIRO-FM: News/Talk with FM signal to attract younger audience

KJR-AM: Follows lead of Clear Channel AM stations in most markets with News in AM Drive followed by Clear Channel controlled powerhouses Rush, Glenn Beck and Hannity. Much like KFYI did to KTAR in Phoenix. There is no love lost between Clear Channel and Bonneville.

KJR-AM becomes a news talk powerhouse knocking out KIRO and stripping KTTH of all their syndicated talent. Bonneville may have the money, but Clear Channel owns the top syndicated shows with Rush, Beck and now a new deal including Hannity. Game over? KIRO wins the sports battle, but the war for top news station in Seattle is just beginning. Clear Channel could win that war with good local morning drive news and Premiere talk in many markets including Phoenix and KEX in nearby Portland. They use the same model in every city and it works. They strip Bonneville's KTTH of their highest rated shows causing even more hurt for Bonneville. Bonneville didn't seem to learn from their Phoenix experience. Or have they? Time will tell.

Indeed, but I wouldn't bank on Clear Channel pulling all the syndicated Premier Radio Networks programming, with time remaining on their contracts and putting them on KJR. Trying to go head-to-head against KIRO and KOMO with news or talk would be an expensive long term project. Don't forget with the increasing loss of 18+ demos listening to AM radio in particular, such a change would be a serious money loser.

Premier is a separate division from CCU radio, and the radio station group doesn't get the PR programming for free. Hiring local talk show talent * live news people * marketing expenses * and paying early-out penalties, etc., KJR would lose ten million dollars the first year.

Bottom line? 2009 is going to be more brutal for traditional media than 2008 is turning out to be. As you can probably attest Dan, the mainstays of advertising for radio; TV, furniture, automotive, and telcom have left the building. National and local. Even if one had 45 minutes of $30 local avails an hour, one couldn't make payroll on a Seattle/Tacoma station.

I've sat back in amusement and watched some of the "expert" posters on this board go on and on about how AM will be magically transformed to the good ol' days if only some 50KW AM would switch to "Classic Country", "Oldies", whatever... Until you step up as a station owner and start writing those big monthly checks, you know nothing...

 

[thenewz]

The war in Phoenix was won by Clear Channel. When KTAR went FM News and KTAR-AM went sports. Clear Channel launched a strong news attack and reinforced 550 KFYI with all of their premiere talent. In the end KTAR went from number one to number ten. KFYI is now the number one station in Phoenix and outbills KTAR, according to my most recent sales figures, almost 2-1.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

 

[TakeItFromMe]

What the heck is wrong with Classic Country ??? what are you smoking ???
Here's the Phoenix numbers dude seems Clear Channel is kickin Bonneville's butt.

KFYI-AM Clear Channel News/Talk 5.3
KOOL-FM CBS Radio Oldies 5.1
KMLE-FM CBS Radio Country 4.0
KMXP-FM Clear Channel Hot AC 4.0
KUPD-FM Sandusky Radio Active Rock 3.8
KYOT-FM Clear Channel Smooth Jazz 3.8
KHOT-FM/KHOV-FM Univision Regional Mexican 3.7
KESZ-FM Clear Channel AC 3.6
KTAR-FM Bonneville News/Talk 3.6
KZZP-FM Clear Channel CHR/Top 40 3.5
KQMR-FM/KOMR-FM Univision Spanish Oldies 3.2
KKFR-FM Riviera Rhythmic 2.9
KSLX-FM Sandusky Radio Classic Rock 2.9
KZON-FM CBS Radio Rhythmic 2.9
KPKX-FM Bonneville Adult Hits 2.7
KNIX-FM Clear Channel Country 2.4
KNIX-AM Clear Channel Classic Country 2.4
KTAR-AM Bonneville Sports 2.3


Clear Channel might be smart grabbin them talk show. Looks like a good ole fashion
spankin in Phoenix to me. I remember when KTAR-AM was number one before they did what they are doin in Seattle. :-\

 

[Bongwater]

Worst kept secret in Seattle radio. Will set a series of changes in motion I suspect. Clear Channel and Bonneville have no love lost for each other. The war in Phoenix was won by Clear Channel. When KTAR went FM News and KTAR-AM went sports. Clear Channel launched a strong news attack and reinforced 550 KFYI with all of their premiere talent. In the end KTAR went from number one to number ten. KFYI is now the number one station in Phoenix and outbills KTAR, according to my most recent sales figures, almost 2-1.
Expect the same battle in Seattle:

KIRO-AM: All-Sports with Mariners, Seahawks and live shows mornings, afternoons and nights. ESPN the rest of the time
KIRO-FM: News/Talk with FM signal to attract younger audience

KJR-AM: Follows lead of Clear Channel AM stations in most markets with News in AM Drive followed by Clear Channel controlled powerhouses Rush, Glenn Beck and Hannity. Much like KFYI did to KTAR in Phoenix. There is no love lost between Clear Channel and Bonneville.

KJR-AM becomes a news talk powerhouse knocking out KIRO and stripping KTTH of all their syndicated talent. Bonneville may have the money, but Clear Channel owns the top syndicated shows with Rush, Beck and now a new deal including Hannity. Game over? KIRO wins the sports battle, but the war for top news station in Seattle is just beginning. Clear Channel could win that war with good local morning drive news and Premiere talk in many markets including Phoenix and KEX in nearby Portland. They use the same model in every city and it works. They strip Bonneville's KTTH of their highest rated shows causing even more hurt for Bonneville. Bonneville didn't seem to learn from their Phoenix experience. Or have they? Time will tell.

Indeed, but I wouldn't bank on Clear Channel pulling all the syndicated Premier Radio Networks programming, with time remaining on their contracts and putting them on KJR. Trying to go head-to-head against KIRO and KOMO with news or talk would be an expensive long term project. Don't forget with the increasing loss of 18+ demos listening to AM radio in particular, such a change would be a serious money loser.

Premier is a separate division from CCU radio, and the radio station group doesn't get the PR programming for free. Hiring local talk show talent * live news people * marketing expenses * and paying early-out penalties, etc., KJR would lose ten million dollars the first year.

Bottom line? 2009 is going to be more brutal for traditional media than 2008 is turning out to be. As you can probably attest Dan, the mainstays of advertising for radio; TV, furniture, automotive, and telcom have left the building. National and local. Even if one had 45 minutes of $30 local avails an hour, one couldn't make payroll on a Seattle/Tacoma station.

I've sat back in amusement and watched some of the "expert" posters on this board go on and on about how AM will be magically transformed to the good ol' days if only some 50KW AM would switch to "Classic Country", "Oldies", whatever... Until you step up as a station owner and start writing those big monthly checks, you know nothing...

Most commercial major market radio stations are corporately owned. The money to write those big monthly checks to take this industry into the 21st century was there. Lots of it. Where did it go? Well, first to buy too many stations they programmed badly and eventually had to get rid of ten years later at huge and unrecoverable losses. Second, you can't have a portfolio like that without lifestyles and a legal and lobbying department to match. Third, cut all costs so the actual losses from bad management who had bitten off more than they should chew doesn't show to the public shareholders, (just listeners ears.)

And when it gets really bad, blame it on the recession, blame it on 9/11. Blame it on the new music, blame it on the classic personalities, blame it on AM static, blame it on the listeners, blame it on the president, blame it on Arbitron PPMs, blame it on iPods, blame it on Sirius, blame it on Dori Monson, blame it on LPFM, blame it on Radio-Info, blame it on pirates, blame it on the rain, blame it on Milli Vannilli.....

But NOBODY, blame the upper brass. Ever. Even though THEY make the decisions, it's always something else......

Like not taking a chance, like not cutting against the grain, like not promoting, like not crafting a station into something you'd be proud to play LOUD.......

It was all about play it safe, follow the national in-house trends, never blaze your own trail.

It was all about advertising dollars. Make as much for as little as possible......

And they wonder WHY radio is in the toilet.....

 

[TVradioguru]

What the heck is wrong with Classic Country ??? what are you smoking ???
Here's the Phoenix numbers dude seems Clear Channel is kickin Bonneville's butt.

KFYI-AM Clear Channel News/Talk 5.3
KOOL-FM CBS Radio Oldies 5.1
KMLE-FM CBS Radio Country 4.0
KMXP-FM Clear Channel Hot AC 4.0
KUPD-FM Sandusky Radio Active Rock 3.8
KYOT-FM Clear Channel Smooth Jazz 3.8
KHOT-FM/KHOV-FM Univision Regional Mexican 3.7
KESZ-FM Clear Channel AC 3.6
KTAR-FM Bonneville News/Talk 3.6
KZZP-FM Clear Channel CHR/Top 40 3.5
KQMR-FM/KOMR-FM Univision Spanish Oldies 3.2
KKFR-FM Riviera Rhythmic 2.9
KSLX-FM Sandusky Radio Classic Rock 2.9
KZON-FM CBS Radio Rhythmic 2.9
KPKX-FM Bonneville Adult Hits 2.7
KNIX-FM Clear Channel Country 2.4
KNIX-AM Clear Channel Classic Country 2.4
KTAR-AM Bonneville Sports 2.3


Clear Channel might be smart grabbin them talk show. Looks like a good ole fashion
spankin in Phoenix to me. I remember when KTAR-AM was number one before they did what they are doin in Seattle. :-\

Doin? spankin? grabbin? I find your syntax and hillbilly/Ellie May Clampet writing style is interesting... I'm sure you aren't really as "back-woods" in real life as you appear here. My guess is you probably are much more articulate when writing inter-office E-mails, including correct use of spelling over there at the "Spam Can".

First of all the Phoenix market is not Seattle. Phoenix has a much per-capita older demographic. The older demographic makeup account for the higher older appeal formats such as classic country, or oldies. Also one must take into account the total number associated with total share available between the markets. A station with a 2 or 3 share in Phoenix, would equate to a .5 to 1 share in the Seattle/Tacoma DMA, due to the difference in the number of stations drawing from the sample pie, number of counties/population count/sample in the DMA, etc.

You probably already know this, but for those readers here that don't; members of the older demographic sector typically participate in ratings surveys more often than an under 35 year old respondent.

Just as in hit radio, country stations in Seattle have taken many forms including "young country". I worked to swap formats at an AM station in Spokane, WA. several years ago that switched to "classic country", and it flopped. Beyond being on AM, just as in rock oldies, there are vastly different listener interpretations of what is considered classic or oldies, and it's tough to get any sort of Time Spent Listening numbers going when one sector considers classic from the 80's, while other consider classic from the 60's.

As for your comments Mr., or Ms. Bongwater.. You seem to frequently blame the decline of radio on greedy corporate management. Not to insult your intelligence here, but are you aware that with the exception of public radio, commercial radio makes their money solely through selling commercials? Have you been paying attention to what the economy is doing beyond just radio?

I'm curious Bong.., (assuming I may call you Bong?)...Do you honestly believe that people in management roles at broadcast groups, have so much less knowledge of the business than you do? If so, then why aren't you running a successful station or group of stations?

 

[SeattleRadioPro]

Re: Thread killing post

As for your comments Mr., or Ms. Bongwater.. You seem to frequently blame the decline of radio on greedy corporate management. Not to insult your intelligence here, but are you aware that with the exception of public radio, commercial radio makes their money solely through selling commercials? Have you been paying attention to what the economy is doing beyond just radio?

I'm curious Bong.., (assuming I may call you Bong?)...Do you honestly believe that people in management roles at broadcast groups, have so much less knowledge of the business than you do? If so, then why aren't you running a successful station or group of stations?

Clearly you're new to this board Mr. Guru. I say that because most of us know enough not to engage Larry (aka Bongwater) on this very topic. Now that you've chosen to engage him, he'll respond, you'll counter-respond, lather, rinse repeat. And this thread will die a slow painful death completely off-topic from the original post.

One other thing: Please educate us on what a "much per-capita older demographic" is. I know "demographic", "older" and "per capita", but I don't know what it means when all three are used together.

 

[TVradioguru]

I suspect you're right about the exchange with Bong Mr. or Ms. Pro. I won't bother with needless return volleys between Bong and myself.

The difference being that I work in the industry, and just happen to be one of those evil corporate low-lives that Bong refers to when assigning blame towards the decline of traditional media. Based on his post, I'm willing to bet he or she worked in the industry years ago, but the career path didn't play through. Now Bong is bitter about that result, and believes they could do a better job than a corporate suit like me.

As for the grammar attached to my attempt at explaining the difference between a market like Phoenix and Seattle to Ms. Clampet, you're right there too. I should have used used the word higher as a comparative, rather than much.

 

[News Vet]

What the heck is wrong with Classic Country ??? what are you smoking ???
Here's the Phoenix numbers dude seems Clear Channel is kickin Bonneville's butt.

KFYI-AM Clear Channel News/Talk 5.3
KOOL-FM CBS Radio Oldies 5.1
KMLE-FM CBS Radio Country 4.0
KMXP-FM Clear Channel Hot AC 4.0
KUPD-FM Sandusky Radio Active Rock 3.8
KYOT-FM Clear Channel Smooth Jazz 3.8
KHOT-FM/KHOV-FM Univision Regional Mexican 3.7
KESZ-FM Clear Channel AC 3.6
KTAR-FM Bonneville News/Talk 3.6
KZZP-FM Clear Channel CHR/Top 40 3.5
KQMR-FM/KOMR-FM Univision Spanish Oldies 3.2
KKFR-FM Riviera Rhythmic 2.9
KSLX-FM Sandusky Radio Classic Rock 2.9
KZON-FM CBS Radio Rhythmic 2.9
KPKX-FM Bonneville Adult Hits 2.7
KNIX-FM Clear Channel Country 2.4
KNIX-AM Clear Channel Classic Country 2.4
KTAR-AM Bonneville Sports 2.3


Clear Channel might be smart grabbin them talk show. Looks like a good ole fashion
spankin in Phoenix to me. I remember when KTAR-AM was number one before they did what they are doin in Seattle. :-\

First: KTAR ceased being #1 12+ many years before the switch to FM.
Second: KFYI's 12+ numbers you quote are mainly from the older crowd...55 and older. If you look at Adults 25-54, KTAR beats KFYI: KTAR #8 - KFYI #14. From a selling point, I'll take KTAR's numbers and cume anyday. Guess that's why KTAR is the #1 local revenue generator in the Phoenix market.

 

[djdan]

Didn't mean to send this into a discussion of Phoenix radio or lead to posters "name calling" each other. We are all entitled to opinions. From a sales perspective and a guy who deals in the rep firm business (which is having its own troubles right now) I can shed some light on ratings and revenue:

1. KTAR-AM was the number one station 12+ around the time of the flip. Looking back KTAR-AM had dropped to 7th (25-54) from its long-standing number one position. KFYI was number 16.

2. KTAR-FM had a strong last book. 8th place 25-54 is their strongest book since the flip. On a four-book, which is more reliable, they are still not top ten. Lastest trend has KFYI moving ahead of them again. It is a close battle. My point was KTAR-AM was easily beating KFYI-AM BEFORE going to the FM. The flip made KFYI much stronger and after two years KTAR-FM is just getting back to where it was as an AM signal during its worst time. Just like KIRO-AM, it seems like an unnecessary and pointless move.

3. Reported revenue is calculated a bit differently in Phoenix and many report as combo's. I have no doubt KTAR-AM/FM are the top combo biller in the market, even after sports revenue is removed. Single station agency spot revenue is a different matter. KMLE is number one and KFYI beats KTAR-FM, but not KTAR-AM when you count sports dollars. Complex, but suffice it to say KFYI wins the ratings and revenue war for now on spot buys that don't include NTR and sports. KTAR-FM as a news station is not quite back up to what KTAR-AM billed two years ago no matter how you calculate it.

For what it is worth. Classic Country is a 55+ format like Music of Your Life and is not a legitmate answer for an AM station that wants sales revenue. May get some numbers but a bad move on the sales front.

Beware of single books and revenue figures that include non-spot. Web, NTR, Sports are all different streams of revenue. Some groups, like Clear Channel, account for them seperately. Others, like Bonneville, Entercom, Citadel, group some pieces in spot revenue for reporting. Compare apples to apples.

 

[TVradioguru]

Didn't mean to send this into a discussion of Phoenix radio or lead to posters "name calling" each other. We are all entitled to opinions. From a sales perspective and a guy who deals in the rep firm business (which is having its own troubles right now) I can shed some light on ratings and revenue:

1. KTAR-AM was the number one station 12+ around the time of the flip. Looking back KTAR-AM had dropped to 7th (25-54) from its long-standing number one position. KFYI was number 16.

2. KTAR-FM had a strong last book. 8th place 25-54 is their strongest book since the flip. On a four-book, which is more reliable, they are still not top ten. Lastest trend has KFYI moving ahead of them again. It is a close battle. My point was KTAR-AM was easily beating KFYI-AM BEFORE going to the FM. The flip made KFYI much stronger and after two years KTAR-FM is just getting back to where it was as an AM signal during its worst time. Just like KIRO-AM, it seems like an unnecessary and pointless move.

3. Reported revenue is calculated a bit differently in Phoenix and many report as combo's. I have no doubt KTAR-AM/FM are the top combo biller in the market, even after sports revenue is removed. Single station agency spot revenue is a different matter. KMLE is number one and KFYI beats KTAR-FM, but not KTAR-AM when you count sports dollars. Complex, but suffice it to say KFYI wins the ratings and revenue war for now on spot buys that don't include NTR and sports. KTAR-FM as a news station is not quite back up to what KTAR-AM billed two years ago no matter how you calculate it.

For what it is worth. Classic Country is a 55+ format like Music of Your Life and is not a legitmate answer for an AM station that wants sales revenue. May get some numbers but a bad move on the sales front.

Beware of single books and revenue figures that include non-spot. Web, NTR, Sports are all different streams of revenue. Some groups, like Clear Channel, account for them seperately. Others, like Bonneville, Entercom, Citadel, group some pieces in spot revenue for reporting. Compare apples to apples.

Great post Dan. Another good reality check to some that radio is a business that stays alive via advertising sales.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Doin? spankin? grabbin? I find your syntax and hillbilly/Ellie May Clampet writing style is interesting... I'm sure you aren't really as "back-woods" in real life as you appear here.

Awww..c'mon. Sarah Palin has taught us that it's cool to talk like that....now we ALL want to do it!

 

[thenewz]

Didn't mean to send this into a discussion of Phoenix radio or lead to posters "name calling" each other. We are all entitled to opinions. From a sales perspective and a guy who deals in the rep firm business (which is having its own troubles right now) I can shed some light on ratings and revenue:

1. KTAR-AM was the number one station 12+ around the time of the flip. Looking back KTAR-AM had dropped to 7th (25-54) from its long-standing number one position. KFYI was number 16.

2. KTAR-FM had a strong last book. 8th place 25-54 is their strongest book since the flip. On a four-book, which is more reliable, they are still not top ten. Lastest trend has KFYI moving ahead of them again. It is a close battle. My point was KTAR-AM was easily beating KFYI-AM BEFORE going to the FM. The flip made KFYI much stronger and after two years KTAR-FM is just getting back to where it was as an AM signal during its worst time. Just like KIRO-AM, it seems like an unnecessary and pointless move.

3. Reported revenue is calculated a bit differently in Phoenix and many report as combo's. I have no doubt KTAR-AM/FM are the top combo biller in the market, even after sports revenue is removed. Single station agency spot revenue is a different matter. KMLE is number one and KFYI beats KTAR-FM, but not KTAR-AM when you count sports dollars. Complex, but suffice it to say KFYI wins the ratings and revenue war for now on spot buys that don't include NTR and sports. KTAR-FM as a news station is not quite back up to what KTAR-AM billed two years ago no matter how you calculate it.

For what it is worth. Classic Country is a 55+ format like Music of Your Life and is not a legitmate answer for an AM station that wants sales revenue. May get some numbers but a bad move on the sales front.

Beware of single books and revenue figures that include non-spot. Web, NTR, Sports are all different streams of revenue. Some groups, like Clear Channel, account for them seperately. Others, like Bonneville, Entercom, Citadel, group some pieces in spot revenue for reporting. Compare apples to apples.

Wrong again.

KTAR was #16 P25-54 before splitting into a talk station on FM and a sports station on AM. KFYI was #1 P25-54.

Now, nearly two years later, KTAR FM is #8. KTAR AM is #15. KFYI is #14. KIRO is in a much more advantageous position than KTAR was when it split formats. This bodes well for KIRO. KTAR's AM newstalk competitor (KFYI) has experienced decreasing ratings P25-54 while KTAR AM and FM have grown substantially. KFYI does well P12+ but has been #14 two of the last three books. This comes after ranking #1 consistently in 2007.

As far as revenue, KFYI has never beaten KTAR. No newstalk station has beaten KTAR in revenue ever. As someone who worked at KTAR during the lush 80s, I can assure you the station has never been beat in the world of financials back then or currently.

 

[djdan]

Don't want to get into a battle over Pheonix radio. We can agree to disagree. It is so hard to compare apples to apples when billing is reported, as I said above. Four book 6a-7p is also different than single book 6a-12m. Agencies look at different things. I did notice an interesting thing when looking back to the 2004/2005 numbers prior to KTAR-AM going to the FM band. I had no idea how strong KKFR was, or how strong it billed. I thought blowing up KBSG was short-sighted from a revenue perspective, but the Phoenix move seems even more irrational. For music stations KHOT, KYOT and KOOL were actually on top 12+, but KKFR was not far behind.


STATION FORMAT OWNER SUM 05 RNK 12+/25-54 6a-7p
KFYI-AM TALK CLEAR CHANNEL 5.1/3.2
KOOL-FM OLDIES INFINITY 5.2/3.2
KHOT-FM @ REG.MEXICAN HISPANIC 5.6/4.4
KYOT-FM SMOOTH JAZZ CLEAR CHANNEL 4.7/3.5
KKFR-FM URBAN BONNEVILLE 4.6/3.8
KTAR-AM NEWS/TALK BONNEVILLE 4.6/3.7
KZZP-FM CHR/RHYTHMIC CLEAR CHANNEL 4.7/2.2
KNIX-FM COUNTRY CLEAR CHANNEL 3.8/3/5
KPKX-FM ADULT HITS BONNEVILLE 4.0/3.9
KMXP-FM HOT AC CLEAR CHANNEL 3.6/3.7
KMLE-FM COUNTRY INFINITY 4.6 5.1 3.2


In a single book your numbers may be correct and in combo NTR/Web/Sports/Spot Sales you are correct. Looks like KIRO is a little worse off than KTAR was at the time of the flip. KBSG was a little worse off than KKFR. Enough on Phoenix radio. We can agree to disagree and see what the future brings for KIRO.

 

[djdan]

By the way I do agree that KTAR-AM was far outbilling KFYI at the time of their flip and did for years which makes flipping even more confusing. Same for Seattle. KIRO has always been the top billing AM in this market on spot revenue. Though KIRO lost some ground 2003-2005, they moved back into second positioin last year behind KMPS. Again, it makes the need to get rid of KBSG even more confusing.

I guess that is why I sell radio and don't flip formats. Maybe in the future the AM dial will be dead and Bonneville is just being smart. I still think the AM dial can deliver solid ratings and revenue. KMOX, KFI, KFYI, KEX, KGO and many more are examples of AM stations that continue to rate in the top ten and bill in the top three. All sports on AM has no history of rating number one, but does have a history of strong billing, which may explain the move. KIRO billed close to 14 million last year and KBSG close to 8 million. Maybe KIRO-AM ESPN and KIRO-FM News Talk will bill more.

In the end it really does all come down to revenue over ratings. If it was just all about ratings KISW would be the number one biller in the market, followed by KZOK. They rank number 1,2 25-54 on a four book in Seattle. Neither station is top two in billing and one is not even top ten. The top billing stations in Seattle are KMPS, KIRO, KRWM, KZOK, KMTT, KOMO and KPLZ. KIRO, KMTT, KOMO and KPLZ are currently not even top five 25-54. Ratings don't exactly equal money.

 

[melcham]

Two thoughts, one about this thread and another about this board:

1) To bring it back to Seattle and the ESPN 710 Seattle v. 950 KJR battle, another way to look at it and attempt to predict the success or failure of the Bonneville plan is to look at what's happened in other markets where an ESPN affiliated station with play by play has taken on a heritage sports talk station with an all live and local lineup. So I encourage any who are interested to pull 25-54 rankers in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Dallas and see how the ESPN affiliate is doing against WFAN, WEEI, WIP, KNBR and KTCK. The evidence seems to suggest that given a choice between a nationally syndicated product and local talk about their local team, audiences gravitate toward the local product.

2) As a semi-regular reader and a non-poster to the board, I am amused by people like Bongwater who at 2:00 a.m. seem to "fly through" the board and litter on each thread like a pigeon flying across the square after a full feed of bread....

 

[voicetrackattack]

Dear KIRO,

Please hire The Groz so I have an alternative to listening to Ian.

Thank you!!

 

[djdan]

A wrap point on this long thread. The Pheonix numbers are out today with KFYI and KTAR-Fm both having their best trends in years. Keep in mind it is an election year and news talk looks strong across the country. AM or FM the election is good for news-talk.

On the sports front: I do find it interesting to look at ESPN versus local. Maybe the 950 AM battle against 710 ESPN is not a foregone conclusion. I think we can conclude the long thread with the obvious: let's wait and see what the ratings and revenue look like in Seattle. Time will tell. Great discussion.

 

[GenXRadio]

Two thoughts, one about this thread and another about this board:

1) To bring it back to Seattle and the ESPN 710 Seattle v. 950 KJR battle, another way to look at it and attempt to predict the success or failure of the Bonneville plan is to look at what's happened in other markets where an ESPN affiliated station with play by play has taken on a heritage sports talk station with an all live and local lineup. So I encourage any who are interested to pull 25-54 rankers in New York, Boston, Philadelphia, San Francisco and Dallas and see how the ESPN affiliate is doing against WFAN, WEEI, WIP, KNBR and KTCK. The evidence seems to suggest that given a choice between a nationally syndicated product and local talk about their local team, audiences gravitate toward the local product.

2) As a semi-regular reader and a non-poster to the board, I am amused by people like Bongwater who at 2:00 a.m. seem to "fly through" the board and litter on each thread like a pigeon flying across the square after a full feed of bread....

I can speak on the situation in Boston, first the 890 signal that ESPN was put on is a terrible signal, I know because I once worked at a station on that signal.
When the listeners have a hard time hearing you you're not going to last long
Next, the only reason ESPN moved to 890 from WEEI was because Jason Wolfe at WEEI decided to replace their programming with Fox Sports Radio.
It also didn't help that the morning show duo at 'EEI Dennis & Callahan were constantly bad mouthing ESPN programming on their show and in particular the overnight guy at the time on ESPN - Todd Wright.
Next lookat the ownership groups, Bonneville has MUCH more money, resources and talent at their disposal than the small time owner of 890 in Boston which I believe owned some small stations where they primarily did brokered time programming.
Lastly there was only 1 local show on 890 "The Drive with Michael Felger", while I think Michael is a talented newspaper guy he's not particularly engaging as a host, he has his moments as a guest - see his time on "The Big Show" on 'EEI and appearances on New England Sports Tonight but he just isn't a # 1 guy.
If Bonneville were smart they would start with an afternoon drive show since their launch coincides with the Bigger Dance which is when KJR gets it's biggest #'s of the year and it's also good for leading up to an M's pregame show.
Have a STRONG post game show, make yourselves THE destination for M's fans to listen to for post game programming, keep the momentum after the game and make yourself "THE source".
Next do the search for a great morning show and have it in place for football season but make sure you've got some local talent in the team on the morning, Seattle sports fans and radio listeners like many in other cities are very picky about that, give them a name they know who isn't mailing it in for one last paycheck before they retire and surround that person with people the listeners can get to know and learn to like as well.
It CAN be done, it just needs to be done properly and thoughtfully as any major decision or undertaking should be considered but at the same time have some fun! It's sports!
Oh and get Dori Monson as FAR away from ANY sports programming as possible! He is just terrible!

 

[WKomm]

Hold on, GenX ... about Dori.

Don't you know that he's one of the very best sports radio guys in Seattle? Just listen to him - he'll tell you himself.

You are correct, sir. He is a Primo Jock Sniffer, suited for towel boy MAYBE.