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Kiss This!

S

scooterodell

Guest
The 12+ numbers are out for Rochester, and there's some interesting stuff there. I think the biggest story may be Kiss actually beating PXY. Has this every happened before?

Other notes:

The gulf between the Bee and WHAM is widening, with WBEE clearly in the lead. Can WHAM recover their numbers, and can WBEE keep up this pace?

Warm 101.3 bounced back well--though I still don't have any clue as to why so many people listen to this station.

WVOR continues to wallow in mediocrity.

WROC up to what I believe are the highest numbers it has achieved with the left-leaning lineup.

The Nerve barely shows up... How much longer will CC keep this format, or this signal, for that matter?

For those who don't know, you can find the ratings here:
http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRRatings/DetailsPage.aspx?MID=219&RY=2005&RQ=3&MP=0&OTHER=2&MN=Rochester&MS=NY&MR=54&12P=936100&UP=10/25/2005&SU=CM&BPER=9.8&HPER=&OPER=&NSD=1/18/2006&CE=0<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by scooterodell on 10/26/05 11:33 AM.</FONT></P>
 
You know its bad for the Nerve, when the Lake beats them and they aren't even based in Rochester lol. Nerve also fell below WHTK and WROC. Maybe a format change in the works soon??
 
Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester

>
> The gulf between the Bee and WHAM is widening, with WBEE
> clearly in the lead. Can WHAM recover their numbers, and
> can WBEE keep up this pace?

Anything is possible. What will be interesting is to see how WXXI-AM did in the book. If 1370-AM experiences an increase in audience I'm sure Dr. Smith will say that increase resulted in WHAM's 12+ decline in the summer book. ( Along with Bob's opinion that the masses are tired of Rush and conservative talk radio
:)

>
> Warm 101.3 bounced back well--though I still don't have any
> clue as to why so many people listen to this station.

Because it is the elevator music of the 21st century. Similar to what the old WEZO-FM was during the 80s. It's just background music that you hear in most dentist and doctor's offices. Plus they promote the hell out of Tony and Dee in the mornings.

>
> WVOR continues to wallow in mediocrity.

What do they to offer that WARM, the FOX and Fickle don't? Besides I can't remember seeing any TV ads for WVOR in recent months. (Not that I've been glued to the TV set waiting to see them)

>
> WROC up to what I believe are the highest numbers it has
> achieved with the left-leaning lineup.

Again it will be interesting to see if Air America has taken audience away from Public Radio. It's just a shame that Allan Harris ended up on the short end of the stick with the format change from conservative talk to Air America.

>
> The Nerve barely shows up... How much longer will CC keep
> this format, or this signal, for that matter?

With the pending departure of Howard Stern it will be interesting to see how the Nerve does in the future.


Now here is the question I always ask. Why doesn't WYSL ever show up in the book?
Despite what some people may think, you can not convince me that absolutely nobody in the Rochester metro area never listens to 1040-AM.<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester

> Now here is the question I always ask. Why doesn't WYSL ever
> show up in the book?
> Despite what some people may think, you can not convince me
> that absolutely nobody in the Rochester metro area never
> listens to 1040-AM.

If you ever find out, please let us all know!
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester

> > Now here is the question I always ask. Why doesn't WYSL
> ever
> > show up in the book?
> > Despite what some people may think, you can not convince
> me
> > that absolutely nobody in the Rochester metro area never
> > listens to 1040-AM.
>
> If you ever find out, please let us all know!
>


I found an alternate link for ratings:
http://www1.arbitron.com/tlr/public/market.do?method=getAllMarket

Waaaaaaaay down at the bottom of the Rochester ratings page, you'll find the WYSL did show up about a year ago.
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester - WROC/WYSL

I think Bush getting re-elected was probably the best thing ever happened to Air America. The country hasn't been this polarized since Viet Nam and Nixon. Bush's current problems are to liberal talk what Bill and Monica was to conservative talk.

As for WYSL, I don't think there's any real need or desire for all news radio in this market. It's mostly network headlines anyway - very small local staff. All news(with big staffs) works only in the biggest markets. And times have changed - there's instant access to news, sports and weather 24/7 on the internet, cell phones, etc. WYSL has no ad budget. People have better things to do than scope the AM dial in their car for stations they don't know exist. Are there 100 non broadcast people in metro Rochester who know they exist? The legendary 50K KB in Buffalo, with the legendary Danny in the morning, can barely draw numbers - WYSL could go to 100k watts and still not get an audience with what they're doing. If I were them, I'd change formats to something unique that gets upper demos - perhaps classic country or mostly pre-Beatles oldies. That could get them a 1 or 2 share.

> > > Now here is the question I always ask. Why doesn't WYSL
> > ever
> > > show up in the book?
> > > Despite what some people may think, you can not convince
>
> > me
> > > that absolutely nobody in the Rochester metro area never
>
> > > listens to 1040-AM.
> >
> > If you ever find out, please let us all know!
> >
>
>
> I found an alternate link for ratings:
http:> //www1.arbitron.com/tlr/public/market.do?method=getAllMarket
>
>
> Waaaaaaaay down at the bottom of the Rochester ratings page,
> you'll find the WYSL did show up about a year ago.
>
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester - WROC/WYSL

> I think Bush getting re-elected was probably the best thing
> ever happened to Air America. The country hasn't been this
> polarized since Viet Nam and Nixon. Bush's current problems
> are to liberal talk what Bill and Monica was to conservative
> talk.

Could be...it is interesting that WHAM is struggling right now, having fallen significantly behind WBEE in its effort to reach the top. Could be their fortunes may be tied to Bush's more closely than they'd want right now.

> As for WYSL, I don't think there's any real need or desire
> for all news radio in this market. It's mostly network
> headlines anyway - very small local staff. All news(with
> big staffs) works only in the biggest markets.

I think WYSL's biggest problem is still a weak signal in Monroe County, especially in the city and northern 'burbs. Soon it will be far better during daylight hours (post-sunset and pre-sunrise they'll still be down at 500 watts and they will HAVE to do something about that eventually, maybe with a slender pattern aimed right at the city and inner-ring burbs that lets them put 5000 watts into the core of the metro). Nevertheless they'll get more sampling, and more diary mentions, with a stronger daytime signal, and will show up in the winter and spring '06 books even if their marketing isn't stepped up.
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester

> >
> > The gulf between the Bee and WHAM is widening, with WBEE
> > clearly in the lead. Can WHAM recover their numbers, and
> > can WBEE keep up this pace?
>
> Anything is possible. What will be interesting is to see how
> WXXI-AM did in the book. If 1370-AM experiences an increase
> in audience I'm sure Dr. Smith will say that increase
> resulted in WHAM's 12+ decline in the summer book. ( Along
> with Bob's opinion that the masses are tired of Rush and
> conservative talk radio
> :)

The masses may well be tired of it, and that is probably a factor of boredom and repetition of tired old themes and arguments more than anything else. I have no idea if WXXI or other noncomms are well positioned to take advantage of that ennui, however. These stations operate under their own constraints (an inability to opine or attack, a commitment to low-key balanced analysis). Another factor that may inhibit any NPR affiliate's growth is the network's decision last year to boot Bob Edwards, a well-liked personality, from the crucial morning drive daypart and replace him with a pair of anchors who don't project strong personalities of their own. Maybe plain vanilla can work. But if it doesn't, that'll have ripple effects throughout the broadcast day if the show doesn't rebuild.

> Warm 101.3 bounced back well--though I still don't have
> any clue as to why so many people listen to this station.
> Because it is the elevator music of the 21st century.
> Similar to what the old WEZO-FM was during the 80s. It's
> just background music that you hear in most dentist and
> doctor's offices. Plus they promote the hell out of Tony
> and Dee in the mornings.
>
You pretty much answered your question. Tony and Dee are comfortable and well liked personalities, and the station also does well during the workday because it's innocuous background programming that people in most offices and stores don't dislike and don't object to. They get played at work because it's a station no one hates and more people can at least tolerate.

> > WVOR continues to wallow in mediocrity.

Are they live or live-assist? Or are they voice-tracked and automated? Frankly I can't tell. You can tell some stations (WBEE, WCMF, WPXY, Buzz 98.9) are live, and others sound voicetracked. I think 'VOR falls into the latter category, at least most of the day...and it sounds like it.

> WROC up to what I believe are the highest numbers it has
> achieved with the left-leaning lineup.
> Again it will be interesting to see if Air America has taken
> audience away from Public Radio. It's just a shame that
> Allan Harris ended up on the short end of the stick with the
> format change from conservative talk to Air America.

It's clear that the core audiences of the two stations are different, the analytical news consumers 'XXI seems to draw are different from the folks looking for partisan red meat from either the left or the right. When passionate left wing folk had nowhere else to go, some of them put up with NPR, but you got the sense they never felt entirely at home with it, any more than their equally passionate counterparts on the right have been. They were never a reliable part of WXXI's core any more than the conservatives who gravitate to WHAM have been. WROC has probably done about as much damage to WXXI as it's ever going to do (not much, really). WROC's real mission for Entercom is not to hurt WXXI but to slice away a small bit of the audience for commercial personality-driven talk that used to be WHAM's exclusive niche, and weaken WHAM enough that Entercom's own WBEE took away the market's 12+ and 25-54 leadership crown and the extra national spot business that goes with that #1 ranking. Looking at this book, I'd say, mission accomplished.

The way Allan was treated was sad, he deserves to be back on the air somewhere in Western NY. Actually WBEN in Buffalo would do well to bring him in to do a local evening show to replace some of the syndicated stuff that's losing steam. He's a Buffalo native and would fit well on that station.

> > The Nerve barely shows up... How much longer will CC keep
> > this format, or this signal, for that matter?

The station is barely audible in the center of town, and sometimes on the Inner Loop it gets clobbered by a co-channel Canadian country station, so its poor showing in the ratings is understandable. They should move the stick north as far as they can to give it somewhat of a fighting chance because right now it's hard to hear it well if you're much north of Canandaigua.

> Now here is the question I always ask. Why doesn't WYSL ever
> show up in the book?
> Despite what some people may think, you can not convince me
> that absolutely nobody in the Rochester metro area never
> listens to 1040-AM.

Probably not...but the signal isn't great north of the Thruway especially at night and pre-sunrise. The impending power boost to 20,000 watts daytime may make a world of difference to that station, especially if they can follow it up with addition of a couple MORE towers and a boost to 5,000 watts nighttime, even with a tight pattern, as long as it can pound into the city and inner-ring burbs after dark and pre-sunrise.
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester - WROC/WYSL

Just when 38 years in this biz makes you think you've seen every kind of pundit - like the former Pittsburgh Post-Gazette food editor who got the Radio-TV critic's position instead of getting fired - to the frustrated sideliners who vicariously live "virtual radio careers" from the safety of community-college teaching posts or "experts" whose wives won't let them work in radio "because there's no job security"....along comes a whole new kind of radio observer and commentator: one who apparently hates radio. Cellphones and the internet have replaced radio as a mainstream news source? Maybe - on the planet Zembar.

His misstatements and flat-out errors are too numerous for me to believe that Mr. Scooter has ever listened to WYSL - often, occasionally or even once - but I'll try to deal with the most glaring comments. "Mostly network headlines?" Wrong. How about six local casts of various lengths hourly? "No need or desire for all news radio in this market?" Okay, tell that to the two hundred long-term advertisers (many of whom utilize ratings-driven agencies) on WYSL, or come on down and answer our phones for an hour any given weekday. "100 (or fewer) people know we exist?" Hmmm. Would the U of R, St. John Fisher, RIT, Roberts Wesleyan, The Red Wings, the city and county governments including Monroe, Livingston, Ontario, Orleans and Genesee qualify? And you undercut your own argument about suggesting that "classic country" or "pre-Beatles oldies" are viable programming alternatives, when you correctly note that even 50kw legend KB can't get it done with music on AM, even with Danny's fanny on the team. No, for a station like WYSL to succeed, you have to offer a unique niche format and execute it well, marketing effectively all the way. Which brings me to your inaccurate statement about WYSL's "having no ad budget." Actually, WYSL is the only radio station in the market with a 52-week annual TV presence(on News 10 NBC, we get a :10 with on-screen animated logo plus audio in EVERY newscast - a weekly TV frequency of over 30 spots, every week, all year.)

I've heard decades of the prophets of doom, the experts and the consultants, the pundits and profiteers, but the basic laws that govern the success and/or failure of stations, groups, format trends, modes of modulation and market forces always remain the same. And through it all: somehow, every time, the real radio guys find the way to succeed. And some of the most interesting case histories involve the situations everyone dismisses or overlooks in pursuit of the latest collective industry wisdom.

Thanks for your comments, but just the same, I'll pass on your "upper-demo" 1 or 2 share. I don't like to settle. I like to win.

Bob Savage, WYSL News 1040

I think Bush getting re-elected was probably the best thing
> ever happened to Air America. The country hasn't been this
> polarized since Viet Nam and Nixon. Bush's current problems
> are to liberal talk what Bill and Monica was to conservative
> talk.
>
> As for WYSL, I don't think there's any real need or desire
> for all news radio in this market. It's mostly network
> headlines anyway - very small local staff. All news(with
> big staffs) works only in the biggest markets. And times
> have changed - there's instant access to news, sports and
> weather 24/7 on the internet, cell phones, etc. WYSL has no
> ad budget. People have better things to do than scope the
> AM dial in their car for stations they don't know exist.
> Are there 100 non broadcast people in metro Rochester who
> know they exist? The legendary 50K KB in Buffalo, with the
> legendary Danny in the morning, can barely draw numbers -
> WYSL could go to 100k watts and still not get an audience
> with what they're doing. If I were them, I'd change formats
> to something unique that gets upper demos - perhaps classic
> country or mostly pre-Beatles oldies. That could get them a
> 1 or 2 share.
>
> > > > Now here is the question I always ask. Why doesn't
> WYSL
> > > ever
> > > > show up in the book?
> > > > Despite what some people may think, you can not
> convince
> >
> > > me
> > > > that absolutely nobody in the Rochester metro area
> never
> >
> > > > listens to 1040-AM.
> > >
> > > If you ever find out, please let us all know!
> > >
> >
> >
> > I found an alternate link for ratings:
> http:>
> //www1.arbitron.com/tlr/public/market.do?method=getAllMarket
>
> >
> >
> > Waaaaaaaay down at the bottom of the Rochester ratings
> page,
> > you'll find the WYSL did show up about a year ago.
> >
>
 
WYSL Amicus Brief

>
> I've heard decades of the prophets of doom, the experts and
> the consultants, the pundits and profiteers, but the basic
> laws that govern the success and/or failure of stations,
> groups, format trends, modes of modulation and market forces
> always remain the same. And through it all: somehow, every
> time, the real radio guys find the way to succeed. And some
> of the most interesting case histories involve the
> situations everyone dismisses or overlooks in pursuit of the
> latest collective industry wisdom.
>
> Thanks for your comments, but just the same, I'll pass on
> your "upper-demo" 1 or 2 share. I don't like to settle. I
> like to win.
>
> Bob Savage, WYSL News 1040
>

A strong summation, counselor.

Having spent just a few years doing news-talk and having listened to 1040 WYSL on many occasions while traveling to the Rochester area, I believe this station does an outstanding job serving the community.

WYSL always sounds well-produced, alive, local and relatable. It is a sterling template for small market excellence, which is not to be construed as a left-handed compliment. WYSL in fact, is a fine sounding news radio station regardless of market size.

When WYSL was on 1030, the signal could be heard at my home, just southeast of Buffalo.

What's more, as an alumnus of WYSL Buffalo, the call letters are outstanding.
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester

> They should move the stick
> north as far as they can to give it somewhat of a fighting
> chance because right now it's hard to hear it well if you're
> much north of Canandaigua.

Mr. Fybush will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this signal sacrificed a northern reach to improve the coverage of 95.1. It is no longer possible to improve this 107.3.

One wonders what use it is to program this as a Rochester market station. It should probably join Sunny 102 and aim for the just-south-of-town audience with its programming.
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester - WROC/WYSL

> His misstatements and flat-out errors are too numerous for
> me to believe that Mr. Scooter has ever listened to WYSL...

I do believe, sir, that you meant to name Mr. Shaw.

I have listened to WYSL and have never found reason to criticize it; on the contrary, I admire WYSL for remaining a locally-owned and programmed station, given the state of the industry today.
 
Re: Reaction to the Summer Book in Rochester - WROC/WYSL

Absolutely. I would like to publicly apologize for mistyping Scooter's name instead of Mr. Shaw's. Scooter has indeed been kind and fair to WYSL and I appreciate your many supportive comments. Sorry for the mistake.

RCS, WYSL

> > His misstatements and flat-out errors are too numerous for
>
> > me to believe that Mr. Scooter has ever listened to
> WYSL...
>
> I do believe, sir, that you meant to name Mr. Shaw.
>
> I have listened to WYSL and have never found reason to
> criticize it; on the contrary, I admire WYSL for remaining a
> locally-owned and programmed station, given the state of the
> industry today.
>
 
Add My Name To The List Of WYSL Listeners

Setting aside for the moment that I’ve had the pleasure of calling Bob Savage friend for over 20 years, I applaud Bob and his staff at WYSL for accomplishing what can best be described as a miracle.

Here is a station located 30 miles south of Rochester, but still in the metro Rochester market, going up against the mega-media conglomerates with their deep pockets and WYSL not only has survived the competition but is a profitable broadcasting operation. More importantly Bob has stayed with the concept that local is still important.
That is a key element to WYSL’s success…localism.

I’ve said it before and I will say it again. I believe the Arbitron rating system is releasing false data when it fails to even acknowledge that WYSL exists. People are listening to 1040-AM and even more will when the station increases its power to 25kw.

Those “soothsayers of broadcasting” who defend Arbitron by saying, for example, that it’s alright that a low-power station in Dansville can show up in the Metro Rochester book, but not WYSL, are oblivious to reality.

<P ID="signature">______________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on.
I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them".</P>
 
Apology

> Absolutely. I would like to publicly apologize for
> mistyping Scooter's name instead of Mr. Shaw's. Scooter has
> indeed been kind and fair to WYSL and I appreciate your many
> supportive comments. Sorry for the mistake.

If you really want to apologize, send Scooter this link.
 
Re: WYSL Amicus Brief

The "amicus" is generous and much appreciated. The Court finds that Mr. Pastrick, of counsel for WYSL, has presented a persuasive set of facts and argument which greatly preponderates against the dubious string of supposition, unwarranted criticism and unsubstantiated nonsense submitted by Petitioner. We further find that mutual respect among professionals is one of the compelling reasons for Upstate New York radio people to be generally regarded among their peers, as finer examples of the breed. We state for the record: radio is not about Arbitron shares, proficiency with Selector or formats-du-jour, but about people. Petitioner's case is hereby DISMISSED. Defendant's motion for order to cease ignorant pontification about radio industry in general, and WYSL specifically, is GRANTED.

I'd like to add: it's been great having this callsign for the past 19 years, and I'm glad we've finally stopped receiving WYSL Buffalo's overdue bills.


> > I've heard decades of the prophets of doom, the experts
> and
> > the consultants, the pundits and profiteers, but the basic
>
> > laws that govern the success and/or failure of stations,
> > groups, format trends, modes of modulation and market
> forces
> > always remain the same. And through it all: somehow,
> every
> > time, the real radio guys find the way to succeed. And
> some
> > of the most interesting case histories involve the
> > situations everyone dismisses or overlooks in pursuit of
> the
> > latest collective industry wisdom.
> >
> > Thanks for your comments, but just the same, I'll pass on
> > your "upper-demo" 1 or 2 share. I don't like to settle.
> I
> > like to win.
> >
> > Bob Savage, WYSL News 1040
> >
>
> A strong summation, counselor.
>
> Having spent just a few years doing news-talk and having
> listened to 1040 WYSL on many occasions while traveling to
> the Rochester area, I believe this station does an
> outstanding job serving the community.
>
> WYSL always sounds well-produced, alive, local and
> relatable. It is a sterling template for small market
> excellence, which is not to be construed as a left-handed
> compliment. WYSL in fact, is a fine sounding news radio
> station regardless of market size.
>
> When WYSL was on 1030, the signal could be heard at my home,
> just southeast of Buffalo.
>
> What's more, as an alumnus of WYSL Buffalo, the call letters
> are outstanding.
>
 
> You know its bad for the Nerve, when the Lake beats them and
> they aren't even based in Rochester lol. Nerve also fell
> below WHTK and WROC. Maybe a format change in the works
> soon??
>

I doubt any format on that signal would do much, unless it's unique enough to warrant the prerequisite "antenna fiddling" (as we Roch. college folk used to do to DX Toronto's CFNY in the days before The Nerve, as a supplement to WBER). A niche format like jazz, classical, free-form alternative, or a very eclectic AAA might work, but this is CC we're talking about. Perhaps an FM simulcast of WHTK or WHAM? Eh....more likely it'll be sold to yet another pay-for-pray religious broadcaster.
 
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