KITS 105.3 Stunting... Return of Live 105?

[TheBigA]

Why do you think 91X is successful after 40 years,

Forty years ago, there was a very close relationship between radio and records. That doesn't exist anymore. I can go into all the reasons, about changes in the music industry, ownership changing from US companies to foreign companies, etc. Bottom line is there are some genres where there still is a close relationship between radio and records. Alternative is not one. Labels are not investing time or money into alternative promotion anymore. They just throw the spaghetti against the wall over at Spotify, and they're happy with that.

People like you wonder why it's not the 80s or 90s anymore, and the reason is one half of the equation is gone. It took time and money from record labels to make all of that music everyone remembers to become hits. All those Weenie Roasts and KFOG music festivals were paid for by record labels. They're not doing that anymore. That's why you end up with new music you believe is good not getting played. If it had label support, that wouldn't happen. I deal in genres where new music gets label support, so I can see the difference.

Why do you think Public Radio stations like The Current, KEXP, etc are playing a lot of new music alternative is supposed to be playing? Are you telling me THIS is a viable currents playlist for alternative?

I think alternative right now is better suited for non-commercial radio. The non-commercial structure is based on audience support, not advertising support. Current alternative music doesn't attract advertising support. That's partly why the labels don't support it. There's no return for them.

The research is flawed, this is why alternative has become dull like AOR was in the 70s. \

If you don't like what the research says, it must be flawed. In other genres, the labels do their own research and present it to radio as part of how they get new music played. But that isn't happening in alternative. Radio makes the same money regardless of th music it plays. Only the music industry benefits when its music gets played. They need to take a more proactive role, as they once did.

Gee, it's like back then program directors were ALLOWED to program, and not corporations instead.

As I've been saying, there are supposed to be two groups involved. Radio & records. What happens when the side that represents the music goes away?

 

[TheBigA]

I honestly don't get what point you're trying to make to me about how alternative isn't supposed to be breaking new music still and that it's going to survive as a format.

Where did I say that? Your complaint is you don't like the new stuff they play. That's a different issue.

 

[Least]

Here we go again. More purity testing by people who want to categorize music based on what they like. If there is better alternative music out there, it's the job of those artists and their labels to promote the music and give radio a reason to play it. That's how this works. If record labels have research on music that proves it's what people want, present it. That's what they used to do back in the day. This isn't college radio where kids play their own music.

It's the discussion of Alternative and what it means. People from my generation (late 30s to mid 40s) immediately think of Grunge and Alt-Rock. But Alternative is so wide, that we could have multiple populations who like different sounds and has disdain towards others. And this brings us to Big A's point, which I've grown to respect over the years of discussions. I always say "play new" as it tends to build a young audience. But as Big A says time and time again across these forums, the 90s Grunge is the only real big consensus amongst the listeners. And without a true dominant sound right now, we have to default to the last agreed upon sound.

An earlier post criticized KROQ for playing "rap." That's just it, Alternative includes rap, rock, techno, and on and on. Heck, even U2 experimented with a Disco sound, back in the 90s. So to summarize, I agree with what Big A says here.

 

[TheBigA]

An earlier post criticized KROQ for playing "rap." That's just it, Alternative includes rap, rock, techno, and on and on. Heck, even U2 experimented with a Disco sound, back in the 90s. So to summaries, I agree with what Big A says here.

This always comes down to the music, and radio stations are not in the music business. They don't make the music. They don't tell artists how to make their records. They're just the medium in the process, the speakers through which the music can be heard. It's too bad that the music business changed, but radio didn't cause that to happen. Radio would love to have exciting and ground breaking new alternative music to play, that attracts millions of people to huge festivals as it once did. But it doesn't, so it plays the old stuff because it still attracts the big crowds even after 30 years.

 

[PrezSquid]

Where did I say that? Your complaint is you don't like the new stuff they play. That's a different issue.

No, my complaint is the LACK of new music, and corporate stations that's supposed to be helping alternative is playing tiktok hits from 2019

I don't get how that's lost in translation? I know I'm weird with how I word things, but I'm very open and arguably more open to what gets played on the radio than most old listeners nowadays are. I love me Missio, I love Twenty One Pilots, I love all that folksy/indie pop stuff that was big in the 2010s, as well as current rock stuff like Royal Blood, and stuff like that, hell, I like that KROQ is playing Grouplove, Lovejoy and Boygenius.

My issue is that I can tell when the adds are genuinely KROQ and the ones that are Audacy-added.

David Kushner, Post Malone and Beach Weather ARE the corporate-industry pushed ones, the worst part? There the ones that get most of the daytime play, a way to appeal to a young demographic but not playing the above artists I mentioned that fit alternative's massive variety of sounds. Kusher is an American Idol winning singer-songwriter pop aritst, Post Malone is a top 40 rapper/rnb artist, and Beach Weather is a Tiktok-industry plant.

That's the issue.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Which brand was killed first - Alt 105.3 (Live 105) or KFOG?

I remember the last of those two stations left standing had abysmal ratings. Not sure why Audacy feels Alternative would magically produce better results this time.

I think dumping Dave FM is a mistake.

KFOG skewed way old with AAA, then tried to reboot as a standard modern rocker, which was a market failure.

 

[TheBigA]

No, my complaint is the LACK of new music, and corporate stations that's supposed to be helping alternative is playing tiktok hits from 2019

Radio is NOT supposed to be helping alternative. That is completely wrong. Radio does make any money from music. It never did. It all comes from advertising. The music industry is supposed to be helping alternative. According to the music industry, tiktok is the new music research. They're investing more money in tiktok than radio.

 

[Mark Roberts]

KFOG skewed way old with AAA, then tried to reboot as a standard modern rocker, which was a market failure.

That's part of the story. KFOG programming remained static and didn't adapt to demographic changes in the Bay Area that kicked in when the Bay Area economy began recovering from the Great Recession. When KFOG finally did change, it overreacted. Instead of bringing its loyal audience along while bringing new listeners on board, which could have been possible due to the flexibility that AAA offers, it alienated them.

 

[PrezSquid]

An earlier post criticized KROQ for playing "rap." That's just it, Alternative includes rap, rock, techno, and on and on. Heck, even U2 experimented with a Disco sound, back in the 90s. So to summarize, I agree with what Big A says here.

I was criticizing 24kgoldn's Mood, a TOP 40 hit that had no existing reason to be on alternative radio. I'm aware and champion hip-hop's existence in alternative... Meanwhile 91X in 2020 was playing the new Strokes, Killers, Twenty One Pilots, Tame Impala, Bakar, White Reaper, The Head and The Heart, Cannons, Kennyhoopla, Sports Team, IDKHOW, Oliver Tree, Phoenix, The 1975, The Black Keys, Beabadoobee, Car Seat Headrest... need I go on? All perfect alternative stuff that I'm happy with.

If you really think GRUNGE was the last relevant alternative subgenre, then you obviously have not listened to alternative radio in the past 2 decades. What about post-punk revival with Interpol, Strokes, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, The Walkmen? What about pop-punk and emo being absolutely DOMINANT in the early-late 00's with bands like My Chemical Romance, Taking Back Sunday, Blink-182's continued success, Fall Out Boy... what about indie music in general becoming big like MGMT or Foster the People, or bands like Manchester Orchestra or The War on Drugs finding alt radio success? Or the indie folk bands like Mumford and Sons or The Lumineers? What about Nu Metal, a maligned era of alternative that's becoming popular with people again on the internet?

 

[Mark Roberts]

To someone who was reading rec.music.alternative on Usenet in the 1990s and early 2000s, this feels like a classic alternative thread.

 

[PrezSquid]

To someone who was reading rec.music.alternative on Usenet in the 1990s and early 2000s, this feels like a classic alternative thread.

eh it fits. it's just what KITS is gonna sadly do anyway.

God, alt radio is gonna be a bitch to fix when the moronic corporate suits think of themselves instead of the audience and the love of music.

 

[PrezSquid]

Radio is NOT supposed to be helping alternative. That is completely wrong. Radio does make any money from music. It never did. It all comes from advertising. The music industry is supposed to be helping alternative. According to the music industry, tiktok is the new music research. They're investing more money in tiktok than radio.

So how do we fix that? Give up?

 

[speer360]

God, alt radio is gonna be a bitch to fix when the moronic corporate suits think of themselves instead of the audience and the love of music.

It is a business and you are not the customer, you are the product. It isn't about a "love of music" its about what sells to advertisers..

The 2 you mentioned a few posts back, KEXP, BBC Radio 6 are both non-comms and don't need to cater to advertisers.

 

[TheBigA]

God, alt radio is gonna be a bitch to fix when the moronic corporate suits think of themselves instead of the audience and the love of music.

So how do we fix that? Give up?

That's why I say what you want is a non-commercial format. You want something that is driven by music lovers.

 

[PrezSquid]

That's part of the story. KFOG programming remained static and didn't adapt to demographic changes in the Bay Area that kicked in when the Bay Area economy began recovering from the Great Recession. When KFOG finally did change, it overreacted. Instead of bringing its loyal audience along while bringing new listeners on board, which could have been possible due to the flexibility that AAA offers, it alienated them.

The thing is though, classic alternative ISN'T AAA, I would absolutely love the format idea if it was AAA, but the issue is, classic alternative uses new music as an afterthought for the playlist (91X) or not at all (99X, that will change soon), while AAA fairly plays both classic alternative music, some softer stuff and new music multiple times an hour.

That's what I'm advocating for in alternative. Something similar.

 

[Rusty Muck]

So how do we fix that? Give up?

You're arguing that something is broken when BigA is merely explaining how the industry has always worked, even in the oft-revered days of the 70s and 80s. The players have changed but the rules never have.

 

[PrezSquid]

It is a business and you are not the customer, you are the product. It isn't about a "love of music" its about what sells to advertisers..

The 2 you mentioned a few posts back, KEXP, BBC Radio 6 are both non-comms and don't need to cater to advertisers.

no one gives a flying hell about advertisements though, the listeners want the music.

if the music is repetitive and boring, why bother wasting time with the breaks when I could hear all of alternative's varied history old and new on my phone?

Again, how is that viable for commercial alternative? That's not good.

 

[PrezSquid]

You're arguing that something is broken when BigA is merely explaining how the industry has always worked, even in the halycon days of the 70s and 80s. The players have changed but the rules never have.

I get how the industry works, but what about the music? Why only give focus on the music that started the format 30-40 years ago but only playing like 200 songs of it when back then stations had advertisers but were more varied in song choices?

 

[speer360]

no one gives a flying hell about advertisements though, the listeners want the music.

if the music is repetitive and boring, why bother wasting time with the breaks when I could hear all of alternative's varied history old and new on my phone?

Again, how is that viable for commercial alternative? That's not good.

To people operating the stations it isn't wasting time they only reason the stations exist is because of said advertisers. Radio doesn't exist to cater to individual listeners tastes, Commercial Broadcasting is for a Broad Audience.

Radio listeners usually don't listen all day, so repeats are not the end of world to most listeners.

 

[TheBigA]

no one gives a flying hell about advertisements though, the listeners want the music.

If that's what they want, then THEY should pay for it.

I get how the industry works, but what about the music?

That's the job of the music business. Make good music and promote it. Once again, I work in genres where labels still invest in new music. But they don't in alternative. That's why things are this way.