KITS 105.3 Stunting... Return of Live 105?

[PrezSquid]

Again, it seems like the industry is more concerned about the advertisers than the customers a radio station needs to survive.

What happens when classic alternative is doing the same schtick in 10-20 years when Gen X'ers pass away? You really think anyone younger is gonna be listening to a format like that to help with advertising?

 

[TheBigA]

Again, it seems like the industry is more concerned about the advertisers than the customers a radio station needs to survive.

The advertisers are the customers. The listeners are the product. They can get more listeners playing pop and classic rock.

When the listeners pay, then they're the customers. That's why I keep saying you want a non-com station.

 

[Rusty Muck]

I get how the industry works, but what about the music? Why only give focus on the music that started the format 30-40 years ago but only playing like 200 songs of it when back then stations had advertisers but were more varied in song choices?

To be honest, "more varied" is a relative term, especially for a disparate format like alternative which is barely viable at this point. There's a reason why the format cannot find anything close to a consensus for new product (especially with attacking artists as "industry plants") and stations like WNNX and 91X have resorted to playing their gold libraries.

 

[Theater of My Mind]

People like you wonder why it's not the 80s or 90s anymore, and the reason is one half of the equation is gone. It took time and money from record labels to make all of that music everyone remembers to become hits. All those Weenie Roasts and KFOG music festivals were paid for by record labels. They're not doing that anymore. That's why you end up with new music you believe is good not getting played. If it had label support, that wouldn't happen.

There is another part of the equation you forgot to mention which is there were a lot more record labels and a lot more radio stations owners back then.

Competition fosters superior products which is why America has laws intended to prevent monopolies. But it doesn't prevent extreme consolidation which is what has happened with both the music industry where 3 conglomerates now control everything, and the radio industry which is also now dominated by a handful of big corporations. The resulting homogenization of music and radio formats should be no surprise to anyone who knows what happens in a monopoly, duoply and even in an oligopoly.

 

[Mark Roberts]

To be honest, "more varied" is a relative term, especially for a disparate format like alternative which is barely viable at this point. There's a reason why the format cannot find anything close to a consensus for new product (the "industry plant" stuff) and stations like WNNX and 91X have resorted to playing their gold libraries.

One thing I've also heard is that the previous synergies between the music industry and radio have broken down. The music industry has gone chasing shinier things in the form of various social media. This, combined with demographic trends, tends to lead radio stations to favor gold-based formats.

 

[Rusty Muck]

What happens when classic alternative is doing the same schtick in 10-20 years when Gen X'ers pass away? You really think anyone younger is gonna be listening to a format like that to help with advertising?

I dunno, how are classic rock stations doing in the present day?

 

[PrezSquid]

If that's what they want, then THEY should pay for it.



That's the job of the music business. Make good music and promote it. Once again, I work in genres where labels still invest in new music. But they don't in alternative. That's why things are this way.

What genres do you work for? Because how is alternative music not "Good music" anymore. Pretty sure I wouldn't be listening to alternative radio 20 years in my life if I didn't like any of the new songs played over the years...

That's why I say what you want is a non-commercial format. You want something that is driven by music lovers.

San Diego doesn't have a non-commercial format, I like me the non-comms but 91X is the best experience to something similar, but currently it's more classic focused yet STILL hasn't lost some of that AAA goodness it had always blended it's station with commercial alternative.

To be honest, "more varied" is a relative term, especially for a disparate format like alternative which is barely viable at this point. There's a reason why the format cannot find anything close to a consensus for new product (especially with attacking artists as "industry plants") and stations like WNNX and 91X have resorted to playing their gold libraries.

That's the listeners fault for having a biased view on alternative, maybe stations shouldn't have included the "rock" portion because all it did was misled people and now we're stuck in this loop of "i miss the days of REAL ROCK MUSIC", the most obnoxious thing as someone who loves modern alternative, which has always been an evolving format.

There is another part of the equation you forgot to mention which is there were a lot more record labels and a lot more radio stations owners back then.

Competition fosters superior products which is why America has laws intended to prevent monopolies. But it doesn't prevent extreme consolidation which is what has happened with both the music industry where 3 conglomerates now control everything, and the radio industry which is also now dominated by a handful of big corporations. The resulting homogenization of music and radio formats should be no surprise to anyone who knows what happens in a monopoly, duoply and even in an oligopoly.

So, what your saying is, radio is gonna just die in like 5-10 years? We can't do anything to fix it?

That's depressing. Welp, t'was fun while it lasted. I feel bad for all the young people who are gonna be laid off.

 

[PrezSquid]

I dunno, how are classic rock stations doing in the present day?

Only listened to by boomer dads who don't know how to use Spotify.

 

[PrezSquid]

To people operating the stations it isn't wasting time they only reason the stations exist is because of said advertisers. Radio doesn't exist to cater to individual listeners tastes, Commercial Broadcasting is for a Broad Audience.

Radio listeners usually don't listen all day, so repeats are not the end of world to most listeners.

I get it, I'm a more common everyday listener, but like, even if you listened to a sample size of like 1 or 2 hours daily or even weekly, radio listeners are still going to probably catch a lot of repeats in those same hours. The playlists are too small.

Classic alternative will only make the problem more annoying.

 

[Rusty Muck]

One thing I've also heard is that the previous synergies between the music industry and radio have broken down. The music industry has gone chasing shinier things in the form of various social media. This, combined with demographic trends, tends to lead radio stations to favor gold-based formats.

WMMS program director John Gorman famously had a reputation for getting bootleg copies of new product (a turntable in his office was wired to the production room whenever record label execs stopped by the station), playing them in advance and getting C&D notices. But the record labels kept coming back because they needed the station for new product inasmuch as WMMS needed the product to keep their listeners; in turn allowing both parties to make money. It was a symbiotic relationship.

 

[TheBigA]

There is another part of the equation you forgot to mention which is there were a lot more record labels and a lot more radio stations owners back then.

Maybe, but if you look at what was happening at the time, the music people liked was mainly coming from a small number of labels, and was getting played on a small number of stations. Fans of certain music only listened to one or two stations. It didn't matter how many owners there were. All the listeners cared about was their favorites. That's how it is now.

The resulting homogenization of music and radio formats should be no surprise to anyone who knows what happens in a monopoly, duoply and even in an oligopoly.

What happens when the homogenization is coming from the artists themselves? Because that's what's happening. They know where their bread is buttered, and if they can make more money by adding a drum machine or some phase shifting, speed it up for tiktok, then that's what they do. Radio's not in the equation.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Only listened to by boomer dads who don't know how to use Spotify.

"Boomer dads" are not in the 25-54 demo.

 

[TheBigA]

What genres do you work for? Because how is alternative music not "Good music" anymore. Pretty sure I wouldn't be listening to alternative radio 20 years in my life if I didn't like any of the new songs played over the years...

It's not about what's "good music." That's subjective. Everyone thinks what they make is good. But nobody works for free. Everyone in the equation wants to get paid. Same with me. Pop, country, and hip hop get investment from the music industry. Which genres do you see on TV awards shows? Alternative? That should be the big hint.

 

[PrezSquid]

What happens when the homogenization is coming from the artists themselves? Because that's what's happening. They know where their bread is buttered, and if they can make more money by adding a drum machine or some phase shifting, speed it up for tiktok, then that's what they do. Radio's not in the equation.

Your "classic music is better than muh evil drum machines" bias is showing.

If you want I could share you bands that are popular and headlining music festivals and post late night talk show performances from alternative bands that are modern and would've gotten attention in the 20th century. 🤭

 

[Mark Roberts]

So, what your saying is, radio is gonna just die in like 5-10 years? We can't do anything to fix it?

Some of it depends on how you define "radio". It's taking different forms, and moving to more listener-supported models, whether through subscriptions (e.g. streaming, satellite) or contributions (e.g. public radio, various CCR outlets). It may also be time to consider full-fledged national commercial networks, such as in western European countries.

Look at what's happened with newspapers. Regional and local newspapers are suffering a lot. Part of it is their own damn fault - giving away content on the web as well as chasing award submissions by ignoring quotidian local coverage in favor of in-depth series on topics few readers actually cared about. They got away with it for years, supported by classified advertising. Then Craigslist came along. Not only that, though. Part of it is also the rise of truly national newspapers. The Wall Street Journal was a pioneer; the New York Times has followed that model as well.

 

[Mark Roberts]

Your "classic music is better than muh evil drum machines" bias is showing.

If you want I could share you bands that are popular and headlining music festivals and post late night talk show performances from alternative bands that are modern and would've gotten attention in the 20th century. 🤭

As long as they don't sing as if their jaws had been wired shut, which seems to be the modern trend.

Nina Simone they're not.

(This is assuming you know who Nina Simone was. And in her time, she wasn't all that commercial, either!)

 

[MVB13]

You're arguing that something is broken when BigA is merely explaining how the industry has always worked, even in the oft-revered days of the 70s and 80s. The players have changed but the rules never have.

Your doggo is so cute in the photo btw 🐕

 

[Rusty Muck]

So, what your saying is, radio is gonna just die in like 5-10 years? We can't do anything to fix it?

That's depressing. Welp, t'was fun while it lasted. I feel bad for all the young people who are gonna be laid off.

Technology is not built to last forever. Quite frankly, 105 years for AM and 83 years for FM are remarkable lifespans. Both outlived analog television by decades. But AM has minimal listenership and depleted relevance because people saw FM was a much better product decades ago, and went there instead. Technology keeps changing and younger people have access to so much more content than ever before. Inevitably the FM dial will change and adapt.

The funny thing is, Spotify is total narrowcasting but they make money because the technology they use allows for ads to be inserted at specific intervals. iHeartRadio does the same thing. Those allow to be more in tune with individual tastes but using the same formula that traditional broadcasters use.

There will always be a platform for music, it might not be exactly where it always has been, but it'll be there.

 

[PrezSquid]

As long as they don't sing as if their jaws had been wired shut, which seems to be the modern trend.

Nina Simone they're not.

(This is assuming you know who Nina Simone was. And in her time, she wasn't all that commercial, either!)

I'm a music listener, of course I know who she is.

Also, which artists are you referring to with sounding like "their jaws have been wired shut? Trap rap? This is why young people don't listen to the radio as much as I'd like them to, you alienate them by stereotyping whether or not they know a 20th century music artist reference AND what modern music is to your small knowledge, (the oldest gen z are already in the 25-54 market, I'm 22 for god's sake)...

we're talking about alternative here. Which artist sounds like they're mumbling in alternative that's new? Can you even name 5 songs on the mediabase alternative charts without looking?

 

[PrezSquid]

Like seriously if you're just going to clown on modern music, just be upfront and say "I want alternative to just be classic alternative since music was good to me back then", because from your attitudes and points, that seems to be what you guys want for EVERY demographic. I pity you.