KIXI Begging?

[jdweaver]

Under the pretense of a Listener Survey KIXI/880 is soliciting for monthly donations from listeners. The implication is that KIXI could go away without our financial support. It may be a good move. Here's my thought let's say they cume 75,000 listeners a week and that 3% donate $25 per month. So 2.250 donations equals $56,250 per month. That's a nice bump...

Is that feasible? NPR claims a 10% donation rate - so could a station like KIXI with a unique format get 3% of listeners to donate??

 

[TheBigA]

As I recall, the FCC has rules about this. My understanding is a commercial station can't solicit donations for itself, only outside charities.

There was a station in North Carolina that sought to charge for its stream, to cover music royalties. That may be what this is about.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

Is that feasible? NPR claims a 10% donation rate - so could a station like KIXI with a unique format get 3% of listeners to donate??

(Anecdotal) ... I'm a frequent sampler of KIXI, AND i tend to believe in donating to causes when they need it.
But I wouldn't because of the way they recently treated long-time talent.
So not sure what a data point like that would do to the assumption that 3% of all passive listeners would kick in?
(Not that they share my REASON, just the issue might not even make the radar the way KNKX with a long-standing "please donate" mindset is successful).

 

[davideduardo]

As I recall, the FCC has rules about this. My understanding is a commercial station can't solicit donations for itself, only outside charities.

There was a station in North Carolina that sought to charge for its stream, to cover music royalties. That may be what this is about.

Also the Beautiful Music station in Press-kit, AZ, has a subscription service for its stream.

I do not recall any FCC regulation that prohibits commercial stations from soliciting funds to sustain its operation; in fact, back in "the old days" many classical music stations had monthly magazines with the schedule for all recordings to be played and they made good money for the station that way.

And Bob Bittner's station in the Boston market is not a non-com license and it is sustained by donations as are his operations in Maine.

On two occasions I sold station T-shirts at a profit via local stores (over 30,000 of them) as a side business. I have seen stations have a membership club which was intended to make a profit. And I don't recall any rule against the practice.

 

[TheBigA]

I did a bit of searching and found a AAA station in Woodstock NY that is doing something like this.

However, part of his pitch is that he's not "corporate radio." Hubbard obviously is.

https://hudsonvalleyone.com/2017/03/27/can-a-commercial-radio-station-also-be-listener-supported/

 

[The New Chico]

Years ago KCMS, a commercial station in our market, successfully did a listener beg a thon to procure their Cougar Mountain transmitter location. So it's doable.

 

[semoochie]

I feel like I just woke up in The Twilight Zone! What's the point of having noncommercial status, if you don't need it for support donations? Perhaps, a better question: Why have I never heard of anyone doing this before?

 

[Kelly A]

As I recall, the FCC has rules about this. My understanding is a commercial station can't solicit donations for itself, only outside charities.

There was a station in North Carolina that sought to charge for its stream, to cover music royalties. That may be what this is about.

I believe you're thinking about NCE's. The rule states:

"Noncommercial educational (NCE) TV and radio stations
are not permitted to conduct on-air fundraising that alters or suspends the station’s regular programming,
unless the fundraising is for the station itself."

There is an R&O to change that rule:

"In this Report and Order, we revise our rules to allow noncommercial educational (NCE)
broadcast stations to conduct limited on-air fundraising activities that interrupt regular programming for
the benefit of third-party non-profit organizations (hereafter, “third-party fundraising”). Relaxing our
longstanding third-party fundraising restrictions will serve the public interest by enabling NCE stations to
support charities and other non-profit organizations in their fundraising efforts for worthy causes. Thirdparty fundraising programs may also help to raise public awareness about important topics, such as
poverty, health care, and humanitarian issues."


You are correct, that stations can charge subscriptions to their programming being streamed. Island-FM on the Big Island Hawaii has been doing that for years.

 

[Kelly A]

Is that feasible? NPR claims a 10% donation rate - so could a station like KIXI with a unique format get 3% of listeners to donate??

I had heard that Hubbard was considering doing an LMA, or just shutting down KIXI as a cost-saving measure. It's not like they have any appreciable ratings to sell, and the tiny audience demos are WAY too old. I guess begging for funds to keep the station alive is about their only choice left. Even though a swamp, it could be that property the KIXI transmitter site is located might be worth more than the entire station is.

 

[bobdavcav]

This is an interesting topic. If it is legal for a commercial station to ask for donations for itself, then why don't you see it more often? Take real oldies or Smooth Jazz as two examples, though real oldies is starting to make a comeback. I'm not sure if my mom would have donated at the time, but if KWJZ had gone to a donation model but stayed on the air, I'm pretty sure she'd donate to the station today. Instead, Seattle and many other major cities, don't have the format. Actually this is probably way offtopic, but are there any Smooth Jazz stations left?

 

[Kelly A]

This is an interesting topic. If it is legal for a commercial station to ask for donations for itself, then why don't you see it more often? Take real oldies or Smooth Jazz as two examples, though real oldies is starting to make a comeback.

Because once PPM data recording started, it was discovered that listeners who claimed to be interested in smooth jazz, didn't actually listen. FM stations had much more profitable format options that people actually listened-to. AM stations have their own additional challenges. In the case of KIXI, more than just a format which has aged-out.

I'm not sure if my mom would have donated at the time, but if KWJZ had gone to a donation model but stayed on the air, I'm pretty sure she'd donate to the station today. Instead, Seattle and many other major cities, don't have the format.

One can't donate if they're not alive. So goes the KIXI audience.

 

[davideduardo]

Because once PPM data recording started, it was discovered that listeners who claimed to be interested in smooth jazz, didn't actually listen. FM stations had much more profitable format options that people actually listened-to. AM stations have their own additional challenges. In the case of KIXI, more than just a format which has aged-out.

It was a little more complicated.

First, the smooth jazz stations that were getting 10 hours a week in the diary got 3 hours or so in the PPM. That was mostly because of what happened to all stations: rounding up to hours and even dayparts.

Then, most stations found loads of secondary users... they were not the favorite station so in the diary the did not get true credit. In the PPM, many stations doubled their cume. Smooth Jazz did not get that benefit. The actual diary listeners were the only listeners and it turned out there was much less listening by them. And there was no secondary listening audience.

So while most stations increased cume, sometimes even doubling it, Smooth Jazz did not increase at all.

Add in the fact that the audience had been aging for a decade before the PPM arrived, the PPM was just the last straw on the back of that camel. They just could not survive.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually this is probably way offtopic, but are there any Smooth Jazz stations left?

Albuquerque has a bad, high-dial position AM with an FM translator. The one in Ft Walton Beach, FL may still exist. Also possibles are ones in Augusta, GA, Richland, WA and Springfield, MA. There may be a couple more, but that is is. And none in major markets.

 

[Kelly A]

Add in the fact that the audience had been aging for a decade before the PPM arrived, the PPM was just the last straw on the back of that camel. They just could not survive.

KIXI has had their Music of Your Life/Old Standards-format for decades. My mother used to listen to that station when I was a kid. As with most of the listeners to that station, it aged-out eons ago.

 

[xmtrland]

Even though a swamp, it could be that property the KIXI transmitter site is located might be worth more than the entire station is.

For the fun of it I went to the King county website and looked at that piece of swamp land. It's owned by Bellevue City Parks. Its one of over 25 lots that make up the Mercer Slough Nature Park (Broadcasters called it the KIXI Slough at one point. There are three AM transmitter sites in the Slough. Below figures are from the KING County Imap site that gave a value to the land and showed the lots.

KIXI 880 owned by Hubbard - 12 acres - $5,227,200

KKNW 1150 owned by Hubbard - It's on two lots. Transmitter and 2 towers on 4.48 acres - $1,122,100. Tower 3 is on 5.84 acre lot - $1,462,700

KXPA 1540 Owned by Multicultural Radio Broadcasting - 4.7 acre lot $1,228,300

So there are some comps for Swamp land. It does look like 12 acres of swamp land might be more valuable than any of the licenses for the stations above (even if you added the license values together).
But what good is swamp land, but for AM transmitter sites.

 

[Kelly A]

For the fun of it I went to the King county website and looked at that piece of swamp land. It's owned by Bellevue City Parks. Its one of over 25 lots that make up the Mercer Slough Nature Park (Broadcasters called it the KIXI Slough at one point. There are three AM transmitter sites in the Slough. Below figures are from the KING County Imap site that gave a value to the land and showed the lots.

KIXI 880 owned by Hubbard - 12 acres - $5,227,200

KKNW 1150 owned by Hubbard - It's on two lots. Transmitter and 2 towers on 4.48 acres - $1,122,100. Tower 3 is on 5.84 acre lot - $1,462,700

KXPA 1540 Owned by Multicultural Radio Broadcasting - 4.7 acre lot $1,228,300

So there are some comps for Swamp land. It does look like 12 acres of swamp land might be more valuable than any of the licenses for the stations above (even if you added the license values together).
But what good is swamp land, but for AM transmitter sites.

One just has to head North along the Lake Washington shore to Kirkland. Those expensive Moss Bay condos built on pilings are partially on what used to be swampland.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

This is an interesting topic. If it is legal for a commercial station to ask for donations for itself, then why don't you see it more often? Take real oldies or Smooth Jazz as two examples, though real oldies is starting to make a comeback. I'm not sure if my mom would have donated at the time, but if KWJZ had gone to a donation model but stayed on the air, I'm pretty sure she'd donate to the station today. Instead, Seattle and many other major cities, don't have the format. Actually this is probably way offtopic, but are there any Smooth Jazz stations left?

why dont commercial stations ask for donations more often? its not tax deductible.

 

[TheBigA]

why dont commercial stations ask for donations more often? its not tax deductible.

To be honest with you, if listeners were the direct source of revenue for radio, the programming would be VERY different.

I predict you'll see more of this moving forward. It's one way to lessen the spotload.

 

[semoochie]

To be honest with you, if listeners were the direct source of revenue for radio, the programming would be VERY different.

I predict you'll see more of this moving forward. It's one way to lessen the spotload.

I wish that I had known this 40 years ago, when our station was #1 in 55+ and we had to resort to part-time religion!

 

[xmtrland]

I wish that I had known this 40 years ago, when our station was #1 in 55+ and we had to resort to part-time religion!

Who were using donated money to buy air time. Hmmm.