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KIXI Begging?

I am curious what everyone thinks of what a friend says to me when we talk about the decline of AM. If she were to buy a failing AM, she'd make it extremely locally focused, trying to get advertizers nobody else in the market has, with a format that you couldn't find anywhere else. If this is a daytimer, she'd market the heck out of that. I'm not sure if there are any stations like what she'd do, probably the best example would be if WLNG was a daytime AM with an AAA format.

In reverse: 1) AAA is definitely an FM-only format as the music is greatly dependent on audio quality which AM does not have. 2) WLNG is a habit of East Enders that goes back to the mid-60's. It is a local idiosyncrasy and tradition and can't be copied. 3) A daytimer, even in the southern states, loses much of AM and PM drive in the winter and is just not viable any more. 4) A format you can't find anywhere else is usually one that has been tried over and over and failed, which is why nobody else does it any more. 5) Advertisers nobody else has are generally to small or are bad payers. 6) What is "local" today when everyone has friends all over the planet on FaceBook and the like? In small towns, there is very little ongoing local material to sustain a station. 7) A failing AM should already be an indication of a money pit. Don't buy it to dig the pit deeper. 8) Buying an AM is like buying an antique car... it costs a lot an may be fun for a while, but is not a business.
 
I 8) Buying an AM is like buying an antique car... it costs a lot an may be fun for a while, but is not a business.

That's a good analogy. Except that if you own the right antique car, it might actually increase in value when it comes time to sell it.

AM station values have been going South for a while, with increasingly less chance of gaining listeners in the future.
 
I am curious what everyone thinks of what a friend says to me when we talk about the decline of AM. If she were to buy a failing AM, she'd make it extremely locally focused, trying to get advertizers nobody else in the market has, with a format that you couldn't find anywhere else. If this is a daytimer, she'd market the heck out of that. I'm not sure if there are any stations like what she'd do, probably the best example would be if WLNG was a daytime AM with an AAA format.

I sincerely respect and admire your tenacity, Bob. With that being said, David and Kelly are absolutely correct; it would be nearly impossible to make any sort of failing AM station profitable. I worked for a period of time in radio sales to supplement my income, and that was one of the toughest jobs that I've ever done. I think I made somewhere around $400-$500 a month, and had many doors slammed in my face. Radio sales are a special kind of beast, because you are selling an "idea" to a potential client. You might be able to present your client with all sorts of documents that highlight the potential advantages of advertising on radio, but at the end of the day, you are still asking them to sign over a significant chunk of change on something that isn't guaranteed to work. This is not to be negative, because if radio sales weren't effective, business owners wouldn't be advertising right now. However, it certainly isn't a magic potion that will instantly increase revenue at your business. To make a long story short, those who choose to invest in the radio industry all think that they have what it takes to overcome the imminent adversity that they will face. Unfortunately, some just will not be able to succeed, even if they do everything humanly possible to market their asset. There are literally tons and tons of extraneous factors that influence whether or not success is even a possibility, including the of the station, service contour, AM/FM, etc. As you might imagine, owning an AM facility makes an already difficult situation nearly impossible. Even media groups like Entercom and Hubbard radio in Seattle are struggling, and they all have a teams of highly qualified and experienced salespeople. If these folks can't sell enough advertising to keep the numbers up, then I would argue that radio marketing is pretty much an impossible task for anybody else. I think it would be an easier endeavor to sell gravel, because at least a client can see it, hold it, and know what to do with it. Not to mention, gravel is more useful in many cases.

Personally, I would love to see some sort of true oldies (60's and 70's) format on the radio. If I were to purchase KIXI and program it with this programming, it would probably only serve as my personal 50KW iPod, and profit margins would be nonexistent. If I were Jeff Bezos, I might buy KIXI for personal enjoyment after I've exhausted all of the normal things that the super wealthy do for fun. However, a normal person like myself is much better off letting Hubbard worry about the financing, while I tune in to see what's on 880 on my way to work. In the modern era, there are probably six or seven music radio formats that have the potential to be profitable (Country, CHR, Adult Contemporary, Hot AC, Classic Rock, Classic Hits, Urban Contemporary).
 
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I love the words above about sales. This is very true. Sales is a very difficult job that takes a certain type of person and some of those skills really cannot be learned because it's just how your mind works or rather, how you're made. I add this because I do radio sales every day. Everybody thinks radio sales is about 'selling' something but it's really about building relationships and trust. The sales part is listening to what the business owner wants and what they can afford to spend, then giving them what they want for what they want to spend. To do that you have to understand your radio station and the listeners.

You have to think logically (ie: restaurants advertise during hungry hours) and think outside the box. You have to have a handle on the type of business and how it operates. You have to understand the local media options. You have to constantly learn.

I visited a tire retailer. A tire manufacturer recently put up the dollars to help them get an online store. I learned this by being told by the owner (you have to stay in touch regularly). I worked up a written proposal explaining how Covid-19 had changed consumer buying habits, driving more sales to online venues. I explained no other competitor in the county was offering online tire sales. I suggested now was the time to promote the website and the 'new safe way' to buy tires and make an appointment to have them installed. This isn't rocket science. What I presented in my proposal made sense. I explained because radio hits over 90% of Americans weekly, it is the best option to promote the website, build awareness and generate sales. I got a nice order and it was a bit larger than normal because I had made a point of writing down that the owner liked a particular program the radio station aired. I intentionally included some commercials in that program. You might ask if it will work. I believe it will. Some good creative commercials and all my knowledge gained on how radio works went in to composing a campaign that takes our best shot at delivering customers to them via the website. I might not be able to show specific customers that came because of radio but if my client will look at raw numbers, they'll know I increased their customer count. Yes, my station has listeners. This AM with translator is the station the county goes to for local information and has led the market for decades. I find that in sales, the biggest portion of the budget goes to those that create ideas that are beyond the ordinary. If you remember the Fire Ant commercial from a years back that talked about the only good fire ant was a dead fire ant, I created a spot along those same lines to promote flu shots voiced by the drug store's owner/pharmacist. It was a fun spot that drove home the idea that only dead flu viruses are in the flu shot and that if you have every had the flu, you don't want it again. My pharmacist is, because of my plan for him, positioned as the leader in the market for knowledge, personal attention, etc. People tell him they hear him on the radio regularly.

The problem for many folks that want to have their own radio station is misunderstanding sales. It is about as different from retail as night and day. It is almost a disservice to term radio advertising sales as 'sales'. Since I have worked both sides of the building in radio, I understand the importance of programming and signal. I get it has to be a 50/50 deal with sales. Neither can trump the other. Sales is equally important and worthy of a nice slice of the budget to get people who truly understand selling radio. And you need them to have some creative skills including writing copy. I have told many that nobody will take a job for no salary. Second, commission only means a revolving door that will destroy your sales effort. People have to be able to live until they earn the trust and respect of business owners. Third, the person you are seeking is already successful somewhere else and you couldn't afford them anyway. Most likely it will be the owner that finds the newbie. That newbie is mentored by the owner until they are well trained and ready to stand on their own. That means the owner needs to know their stuff in radio advertising sales. Last, if you hate sales, radio advertising sales is very different from the 'sales' you hate

A sticking point for me is how little thought is put in to training and other needed skills the salesperson needs (so many stations have their salespeople writing the commercial). You get it at the bigger stations but most folks start out at smaller stations and are just tossed in the deep end to see if they can swim out. If DJs were salespeople at many stations, it would be like this: it's okay you don't have radio experience or know the first thing about radio, I'll hire you and you can come in and play a bunch of music, any music you want, a few hours a day. In time you'll get the hang of it or you'll decide you don't care for this line of work.
 
I love the words above about sales. This is very true. Sales is a very difficult job that takes a certain type of person and some of those skills really cannot be learned because it's just how your mind works or rather, how you're made. I add this because I do radio sales every day. Everybody thinks radio sales is about 'selling' something but it's really about building relationships and trust. The sales part is listening to what the business owner wants and what they can afford to spend, then giving them what they want for what they want to spend. To do that you have to understand your radio station and the listeners.

You have to think logically (ie: restaurants advertise during hungry hours) and think outside the box. You have to have a handle on the type of business and how it operates. You have to understand the local media options. You have to constantly learn.

I visited a tire retailer. A tire manufacturer recently put up the dollars to help them get an online store. I learned this by being told by the owner (you have to stay in touch regularly). I worked up a written proposal explaining how Covid-19 had changed consumer buying habits, driving more sales to online venues. I explained no other competitor in the county was offering online tire sales. I suggested now was the time to promote the website and the 'new safe way' to buy tires and make an appointment to have them installed. This isn't rocket science. What I presented in my proposal made sense. I explained because radio hits over 90% of Americans weekly, it is the best option to promote the website, build awareness and generate sales. I got a nice order and it was a bit larger than normal because I had made a point of writing down that the owner liked a particular program the radio station aired. I intentionally included some commercials in that program. You might ask if it will work. I believe it will. Some good creative commercials and all my knowledge gained on how radio works went in to composing a campaign that takes our best shot at delivering customers to them via the website. I might not be able to show specific customers that came because of radio but if my client will look at raw numbers, they'll know I increased their customer count. Yes, my station has listeners. This AM with translator is the station the county goes to for local information and has led the market for decades. I find that in sales, the biggest portion of the budget goes to those that create ideas that are beyond the ordinary. If you remember the Fire Ant commercial from a years back that talked about the only good fire ant was a dead fire ant, I created a spot along those same lines to promote flu shots voiced by the drug store's owner/pharmacist. It was a fun spot that drove home the idea that only dead flu viruses are in the flu shot and that if you have every had the flu, you don't want it again. My pharmacist is, because of my plan for him, positioned as the leader in the market for knowledge, personal attention, etc. People tell him they hear him on the radio regularly.

The problem for many folks that want to have their own radio station is misunderstanding sales. It is about as different from retail as night and day. It is almost a disservice to term radio advertising sales as 'sales'. Since I have worked both sides of the building in radio, I understand the importance of programming and signal. I get it has to be a 50/50 deal with sales. Neither can trump the other. Sales is equally important and worthy of a nice slice of the budget to get people who truly understand selling radio. And you need them to have some creative skills including writing copy. I have told many that nobody will take a job for no salary. Second, commission only means a revolving door that will destroy your sales effort. People have to be able to live until they earn the trust and respect of business owners. Third, the person you are seeking is already successful somewhere else and you couldn't afford them anyway. Most likely it will be the owner that finds the newbie. That newbie is mentored by the owner until they are well trained and ready to stand on their own. That means the owner needs to know their stuff in radio advertising sales. Last, if you hate sales, radio advertising sales is very different from the 'sales' you hate

A sticking point for me is how little thought is put in to training and other needed skills the salesperson needs (so many stations have their salespeople writing the commercial). You get it at the bigger stations but most folks start out at smaller stations and are just tossed in the deep end to see if they can swim out. If DJs were salespeople at many stations, it would be like this: it's okay you don't have radio experience or know the first thing about radio, I'll hire you and you can come in and play a bunch of music, any music you want, a few hours a day. In time you'll get the hang of it or you'll decide you don't care for this line of work.

As an on air/production/creative/website person. I loathe doing sales.. in a small market, i have enough on my plate to do already. I'm not overworked per se, but I don't have the time and energy it takes for sales on a full time basis.. because from contacting, discussion, writing/producing a spec spot. getting the deal done, getting an actual spot that will air recorded and produced and getting it on air.. its alot of effort.

HOWEVEr, i have ended up doing a few little bits of sales. Station owner coaches, encourages, supports and corrects us.. constructively. I ended up doing a bit of sales because it was products I knew specifically about... i have a local wireless ISP at home, they started upgrading service in the community....... a new restaurant opened up and a few months alter, i became a regular...so i knew the products and could speak passionately about them and the radio station.

Too many people who havent had business expierience in radio thinking owning a station will be a little easier. That sales isnt that hard.. or it';ll come walking in the door
 
Everything said here is good. She believes that listeners will come, and advertizers along them. I'm not so sure. Her fictional cluster would be run full service with multiple personalities on every shift. In my version, she finds that just isn't workable, sells the stations to me, I transfer many of the employees to what had been a completely jockless cluster I had bought from another owner in another market. That seems like it would be a win win for both clusters. As for programming in general, we both are of the opinion that if a format exists that people want, they will find it, even if it's on a crappy, daytime-only, AM signal. Whether such a format, even a mainstream one, could make any money though, is another question that is better left to those who know the business. As for KIXI, I completely agree that playlist should be tweeked a bit, maybe even going so far as to be similar to that of the growing MeTVFM network, one of which we have here in the Portland area. I find myself listening to that quite a bit, and it even reminds me a bit of WLOV in Daytona Beach, another softer Classic Hits station.
 
I completely agree that playlist should be tweeked a bit, maybe even going so far as to be similar to that of the growing MeTVFM network, one of which we have here in the Portland area. I find myself listening to that quite a bit, and it even reminds me a bit of WLOV in Daytona Beach, another softer Classic Hits station.

I think that's why they're asking listeners to fill out the survey. Not just about the money, but also the direction the station should take. Don't wait for an imaginary windfall to help you buy a station. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.
 
A sticking point for me is how little thought is put in to training and other needed skills the salesperson needs (so many stations have their salespeople writing the commercial). You get it at the bigger stations but most folks start out at smaller stations and are just tossed in the deep end to see if they can swim out. If DJs were salespeople at many stations, it would be like this: it's okay you don't have radio experience or know the first thing about radio, I'll hire you and you can come in and play a bunch of music, any music you want, a few hours a day. In time you'll get the hang of it or you'll decide you don't care for this line of work.

I learned to sell when I built my own first radio station and realized it would not sell itself. The only thing I had sold before was ads in our high school newspaper, so by default what I did the most was listen to the potential buyer and ask them questions about their business. I discovered that potential advertisers like to talk about their business, and if you pick up their needs, you'll find solutions for them.

Many sellers talk about their radio station. Clients don't want to learn how to run a radio station. That is not a need.

Training on what makes your station work is essential for new sellers. Too little time is invested in acquainting them with the business and how they can help potential clients.

A good example of focusing on a client came out on a four legged call where a car dealer brought up one objection after another. Of course, an objection in itself indicates an interest in buying and what the business wants is to make sure they are doing the right thing. In total, there were ten objections the dealer gave us. I answered them all as truthfully as possible.

After the tenth objection, the dealer pulled out a trade magazine and showed us an article called "10 ways to make sure you do the right advertising". He had made a question of each one and when we responded to his satisfaction, he was ready to buy for the first time in the 30-some years of the station.

A client sees advertising as an expense, just like the maintenance on the sign out front or the light bill to keep the lot illuminated all night long. When they see the benefit, they happily buy. The seller needs to ask the right questions to find out what the client needs are or they will not sell. You found out that restaurants like "hungry hours" for campaigns; you got that information by asking questions.

Getting the client to talk about their business is the first step. The moment they ask you a question or offer an objection, they are demonstrating interest. Most untrained radio sellers don't recognize that as an opportunity to dig deeper to build confidence... instead they answer and go directly to a trial close.
 
Everything said here is good. She believes that listeners will come, and advertizers along them. I'm not so sure. Her fictional cluster would be run full service with multiple personalities on every shift. In my version, she finds that just isn't workable, sells the stations to me, I transfer many of the employees to what had been a completely jockless cluster I had bought from another owner in another market. That seems like it would be a win win for both clusters. As for programming in general, we both are of the opinion that if a format exists that people want, they will find it, even if it's on a crappy, daytime-only, AM signal. Whether such a format, even a mainstream one, could make any money though, is another question that is better left to those who know the business. As for KIXI, I completely agree that playlist should be tweeked a bit, maybe even going so far as to be similar to that of the growing MeTVFM network, one of which we have here in the Portland area. I find myself listening to that quite a bit, and it even reminds me a bit of WLOV in Daytona Beach, another softer Classic Hits station.


Nope, listeners wont just show up and advertisers wont just follow.

I learned that the hard way when i took over a silent AM daytimer 13 or so years ago.

You have to promote the station, market it, get out in the community.. thats gonna cost MONEY
 
Everything said here is good. She believes that listeners will come, and advertizers along them.

Anyone who actually believes that B.S. is a fool. Since the dawn of radio, many have been under the false impression that if only there was a format that played the kind of music or informational content they personally like, folks will fall all over themselves to listen. It never has worked that way, nor will it ever. In the dawn of streaming, look at all the start-ups that before Sound Exchange started sending them bills, were doing this miracle format that everyone will love. There were far more failures that success, and they didn't have all the cost-baggage that comes alone with being the licensee and operating a commercial radio station. Now take an AM station where 80% of the population never ventures. Oh, and have it available only during daylight hours. Oh yeah, there is a recipe for failure right out of the gate.

I'm not so sure.

You're smarter than they are Bob. Assuming your friend is serious and has the resources to throw money and their credit rating down a hole, I would completely distance myself from any venture that involves any AM, let alone a daytimer.

Her fictional cluster would be run full service with multiple personalities on every shift. In my version, she finds that just isn't workable, sells the stations to me, I transfer many of the employees to what had been a completely jockless cluster I had bought from another owner in another market.

"Fictional" is a good word for how successful this would be. The reality is it would be a complete and total failure.
 
Anyone who actually believes that B.S. is a fool. Since the dawn of radio, many have been under the false impression that if only there was a format that played the kind of music or informational content they personally like, folks will fall all over themselves to listen.


Go look up WECK/Buffalo, NY and KDRI/Tucson. Some times there are successes.
 
Go look up WECK/Buffalo, NY and KDRI/Tucson. Some times there are successes.

Both have enormously experienced radio peeps in charge, and both have FM translators.

Neither is playing "the music I like". They are playing proven music for a specific target that abounds in the market they are in.
 
Go look up WECK/Buffalo, NY and KDRI/Tucson. Some times there are successes.

As David said, those stations have been operating for quite a while run by professionals with solid backing, not amateurs or hobbyists.

Back in the 80's, there was a sign in the control room where I used to work. I believe Stern used to quote this: "Radio is a long plastic hallway where pimps and thieves run free, and weak men die like dogs." In spite of the broadcast industry being very good to me over 30+ years, I've always taken that saying to heart. Keeping those words in mind has helped me stay focused on the parts of the business that have kept me in the business, and prevented me from doing stupid things like believing my personal tastes would translate into a profitable business model.
 
Kelly, I'm not sure we worked together at that station, as I don't remember that. Certainly wasn't KNHC, but that would have been 70's. But your point is a good one. I have been a PD, MD, OM, and while I was tempted to use my personal preferences at some of my stations, I always respected that my opinion was not as important as the listeners. Sounds simple, but so hard for so many.
 
In a few rare cases, personal preferences and beliefs do provide some benefit to the owner/operator. One particular case is Insane Broadcasting in St. Louis Missouri. The only problem is that all of the stations in the Insane cluster may soon be sized by the FCC, as it is owned by a shady businessman. Not only did the owner use this cluster to promote programming that reflects his personal taste, he also used the cluster to air a highly controversial talk program that would make the Howard Stern radio program look like John Tesh.

https://radioinsight.com/headlines/...louis-area-ams-to-license-revocation-hearing/
 
In a few rare cases, personal preferences and beliefs do provide some benefit to the owner/operator. One particular case is Insane Broadcasting in St. Louis Missouri. The only problem is that all of the stations in the Insane cluster may soon be sized by the FCC, as it is owned by a shady businessman. Not only did the owner use this cluster to promote programming that reflects his personal taste, he also used the cluster to air a highly controversial talk program that would make the Howard Stern radio program look like John Tesh.

https://radioinsight.com/headlines/...louis-area-ams-to-license-revocation-hearing/

old news, the licenses were deleted a few months ago but ordered theallocations remain protected, i think.
 
Anyone who actually believes that B.S. is a fool. Since the dawn of radio, many have been under the false impression that if only there was a format that played the kind of music or informational content they personally like, folks will fall all over themselves to listen. It never has worked that way, nor will it ever. In the dawn of streaming, look at all the start-ups that before Sound Exchange started sending them bills, were doing this miracle format that everyone will love. There were far more failures that success, and they didn't have all the cost-baggage that comes alone with being the licensee and operating a commercial radio station. Now take an AM station where 80% of the population never ventures. Oh, and have it available only during daylight hours. Oh yeah, there is a recipe for failure right out of the gate.



You're smarter than they are Bob. Assuming your friend is serious and has the resources to throw money and their credit rating down a hole, I would completely distance myself from any venture that involves any AM, let alone a daytimer.



"Fictional" is a good word for how successful this would be. The reality is it would be a complete and total failure.
We both would need to win one of those massive lottery jackpots to even consider buying even a small station, though we both have come up with concepts from the seemingly workable to the outright ridiculous. The reality is that I've watched her ongoing financial struggles with a show that airs on several non-com stations as it is, but somehow on a limited income she has managed to make it work, and just last week all of us involved got a really nice letter from a listener who has been listening for quite a while and loves that she and her sisters never know quite what to expect. If you're interested, the website is http://clearingthestatic.blogspot.com, and the show is Radio Serena.
 
We both would need to win one of those massive lottery jackpots to even consider buying even a small station, though we both have come up with concepts from the seemingly workable to the outright ridiculous.

People keep saying this, and it's not true. David Field didn't use lottery money to buy CBS Radio.
 
Kelly, I'm not sure we worked together at that station, as I don't remember that.

We didn't work together at that station. But, you may remember the bumper sticker that was in the control room where we used to work. It had the Ma Bell logo and said: "We don't care, we don't have to."
 
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