KKBT

[Bianco500]

What's the deal?

I'm hearing some buzz. Anyone else hearing what I'm hearing?

 

[bucwhyl]

I just read that Emmis is supposedly buying 100.3. If they do, I believe they could do a better job at Urban AC than Radio One. Just look at Kiss FM in New York.

 

[Bianco500]

Does anyone think a Full signled Urban AC could do well in LA? RO never does anything right no matter what city they own signals in, so they're not one to base success or failure on.

 

[researcher]

Does anyone think a Full signled Urban AC could do well in LA? RO never does anything right no matter what city they own signals in, so they're not one to base success or failure on.

There's not enough Black population to make a full signal Urban AC work. There is barely enough to make a full signal Urban work - but done properly with enough Hispanic appeal, it could.

Urban AC is not as palatable to Hispanics and Urban is - especially because hip-hop is more multi-ethnic in appeal. David could probably interject more on this.

 

[rguess]

With the combined shares of KJLH and KKBT at 3.0 and of KJLH, KKBT, and KHHT at almost 6.0, of course the market can support one or two full-signal UACs. I don't know why this question is even discussed on this forum ad nauseam.

The Arbitron-defined market is 40.7% Hispanic (12+). Approximately half Spanish-dominant. That leaves 20% of the market as Hispanics inclined to listen to English radio. Not all Hispanics prefer or even like or tolerate urban music. Many prefer rock, pop, AC, country, punk, etc. Some prefer a mixture of music. Some prefer talk. Still I estimate the percentage that would prefer to primarily listen a station that plays predominately urban music - including hip-hop &/or R&B - as about a third, with another third preferring a mixture that includes some urban (KIIS, KTWV, KBIG, etc.), and the remaining third preferring non-urban (KROQ, KLOS, talk, etc.). That leaves about 6.6% of the market as Hispanic urban listeners.

The market is 7.6% Black. Approximately 75% would prefer urban, with about 15% for a mixture w/urban and 10% for non-urban. That's about 5.7% of the market as Black urban listeners. BTW, there's not too much difference between 5.7 and 6.6. The black listeners will be your P1's, as KXOL has shown how easy is to get people to jump ship by appealing to ethnic identity over musical taste.

You can’t take a simplistic glance at aggregate population data and make judgments about the potential success of a format. If it only takes that simplistic of an analysis, KCBS should have flipped to some Spanish format instead of Jack.

To be most successful, a station should go after those inclined to like or prefer its programming regardless of the potential listeners’ ethnicity. In LA, no English language station is going to have 100% of its listeners being of one ethnicity, so the 40 vs. 7 analysis is moot. R&B has adult fans of all ethnicities. A sole UAC should appeal to both Black and Hispanics listeners, as well as any White and Asian listeners who although are smaller in quantity can help overall numbers. It doesn’t have to be either/or. Sure, if there’s competition in the market a station might try to target a certain segment. But still, in LA there are enough Hispanic and Black listeners to have a UAC targeted to either or each group.

A UAC is a UAC. Regardless of what it spins to advertisers, KHHT is a UAC – not a very adventurous one and one with a heavy Hispanic listenership, but a UAC nonetheless and a successful one IMO (despite my personal like or dislike for it). The Rhythmic AC label does not befit the station. It has 90% more in common with KKBT, KJLH, and WRKS than it does with KBIG, KZLA, and WKTU.

The San Francisco market has two relatively well-performing UACs with market demographics similar to LA. Houston's and Miami's UACs are #1 and #2 respectively in their markets; of course, they are also the only UACs in their markets. For LA, if not for KJLH a full signal UAC could easily be top ten hovering in the 2.8 to 3.3 range, and that would be even with the diet UAC (KHHT) still in the market, making LA's situation similar to SF. That 2.8 to 3.3 share range is quite decent for adult demos in this market. However if, for example, both KHHT and KJLH were not in the market, KKBT could be top five as a UAC and could even hit #1.

As much as I like Stevie and enjoy KJLH at times, the presence of KJLH in the market makes it more difficult for a full signal UAC to be successful. However "difficult" is not "impossible". If KKBT got its act together, it could find itself in the 2.2 to 3.0 range even while being flanked by Hot and KJLH. KKBT could and should take listeners away from these two stations, but so far it seems to be super-serving the adult listeners that had already been listening (despite their griping about the hip-hop).

Point is, the numbers are there.


p.s. Hip-hop is in decline right now among urban listeners. Most of the hip-hop released currently is from the South, and most is this crunk/snap/etc stuff that many females, adults (male and female), non-blacks, etc. don't get into as readily. Much of this music doesn't have the same mass appeal as the East Coast, Midwest, and West Coast originated hip-hop of years past. R&B artists are doing better, and UACs are doing better also.

p.s.s. If the rumors are true, I do think KKBT would be successful under this scenario. WRKS is doing well and I believe Mayo could help The Beat see its full potential also. Baisden is on both WRKS and KKBT and is doing well so far in LA. That NY/LA sister stations situation could be fruitful. Expenses have likely lowered at the Beat which should help cash flow. KPWR/KMVN/KKBT looks like a very attractive sell to advertisers, basically giving the ability to sell to the entire English “ethnic” market in one shot. With reduced staff expenses (including having Mayo as GM at both Kiss and Beat) and as part of a combo in LA vs. standalone (potential to cut overhead costs), there would actually be less pressure on The Beat to bring home the major bacon. RO could unload its most expensive property and make some coins in the process. Emmis ups its status as a formidable challenge to CC in LA. All that said, it seems like a win-win situation. If the rumor isn’t true I can see how it got started and gain momentum.

 

[ercjncpr]

I have seen plenty of white, non-hispanic kids listening to hip-hop here in Orange County

 

[researcher]

With the combined shares of KJLH and KKBT at 3.0 and of KJLH, KKBT, and KHHT at almost 6.0, of course the market can support one or two full-signal UACs. I don't know why this question is even discussed on this forum ad nauseam.

The Arbitron-defined market is 40.7% Hispanic (12+). Approximately half Spanish-dominant. That leaves 20% of the market as Hispanics inclined to listen to English radio. Not all Hispanics prefer or even like or tolerate urban music. Many prefer rock, pop, AC, country, punk, etc. Some prefer a mixture of music. Some prefer talk. Still I estimate the percentage that would prefer to primarily listen a station that plays predominately urban music - including hip-hop &/or R&B - as about a third, with another third preferring a mixture that includes some urban (KIIS, KTWV, KBIG, etc.), and the remaining third preferring non-urban (KROQ, KLOS, talk, etc.). That leaves about 6.6% of the market as Hispanic urban listeners.

The market is 7.6% Black. Approximately 75% would prefer urban, with about 15% for a mixture w/urban and 10% for non-urban. That's about 5.7% of the market as Black urban listeners. BTW, there's not too much difference between 5.7 and 6.6. The black listeners will be your P1's, as KXOL has shown how easy is to get people to jump ship by appealing to ethnic identity over musical taste.

You can’t take a simplistic glance at aggregate population data and make judgments about the potential success of a format. If it only takes that simplistic of an analysis, KCBS should have flipped to some Spanish format instead of Jack.

To be most successful, a station should go after those inclined to like or prefer its programming regardless of the potential listeners’ ethnicity. In LA, no English language station is going to have 100% of its listeners being of one ethnicity, so the 40 vs. 7 analysis is moot. R&B has adult fans of all ethnicities. A sole UAC should appeal to both Black and Hispanics listeners, as well as any White and Asian listeners who although are smaller in quantity can help overall numbers. It doesn’t have to be either/or. Sure, if there’s competition in the market a station might try to target a certain segment. But still, in LA there are enough Hispanic and Black listeners to have a UAC targeted to either or each group.

A UAC is a UAC. Regardless of what it spins to advertisers, KHHT is a UAC – not a very adventurous one and one with a heavy Hispanic listenership, but a UAC nonetheless and a successful one IMO (despite my personal like or dislike for it). The Rhythmic AC label does not befit the station. It has 90% more in common with KKBT, KJLH, and WRKS than it does with KBIG, KZLA, and WKTU.

The San Francisco market has two relatively well-performing UACs with market demographics similar to LA. Houston's and Miami's UACs are #1 and #2 respectively in their markets; of course, they are also the only UACs in their markets. For LA, if not for KJLH a full signal UAC could easily be top ten hovering in the 2.8 to 3.3 range, and that would be even with the diet UAC (KHHT) still in the market, making LA's situation similar to SF. That 2.8 to 3.3 share range is quite decent for adult demos in this market. However if, for example, both KHHT and KJLH were not in the market, KKBT could be top five as a UAC and could even hit #1.

As much as I like Stevie and enjoy KJLH at times, the presence of KJLH in the market makes it more difficult for a full signal UAC to be successful. However "difficult" is not "impossible". If KKBT got its act together, it could find itself in the 2.2 to 3.0 range even while being flanked by Hot and KJLH. KKBT could and should take listeners away from these two stations, but so far it seems to be super-serving the adult listeners that had already been listening (despite their griping about the hip-hop).

Point is, the numbers are there.


p.s. Hip-hop is in decline right now among urban listeners. Most of the hip-hop released currently is from the South, and most is this crunk/snap/etc stuff that many females, adults (male and female), non-blacks, etc. don't get into as readily. Much of this music doesn't have the same mass appeal as the East Coast, Midwest, and West Coast originated hip-hop of years past. R&B artists are doing better, and UACs are doing better also.

p.s.s. If the rumors are true, I do think KKBT would be successful under this scenario. WRKS is doing well and I believe Mayo could help The Beat see its full potential also. Baisden is on both WRKS and KKBT and is doing well so far in LA. That NY/LA sister stations situation could be fruitful. Expenses have likely lowered at the Beat which should help cash flow. KPWR/KMVN/KKBT looks like a very attractive sell to advertisers, basically giving the ability to sell to the entire English “ethnic” market in one shot. With reduced staff expenses (including having Mayo as GM at both Kiss and Beat) and as part of a combo in LA vs. standalone (potential to cut overhead costs), there would actually be less pressure on The Beat to bring home the major bacon. RO could unload its most expensive property and make some coins in the process. Emmis ups its status as a formidable challenge to CC in LA. All that said, it seems like a win-win situation. If the rumor isn’t true I can see how it got started and gain momentum.

My point is, there are too many stations targeted right now primarily to Black. KJLH, KDAY, and KKBT - especially since KHHT, KTWV, and KPWR also have large Black audience comp.

You cannot make me believe there is room for Steve Harvey, Tom Joyner, and KJLH's local morning show in Los Angeles. Those shows traditionally have minimal Hispanic appeal. New York only has Harvey and WRKS's morning show and has a Black comp of more than double.

KHHT has a large Black comp, but they are Hispanic first and foremost. Their sound, imaging, and music is definitely focused Hispanic first.

You are right that hip-hop is waning a bit with Hispanics because of where it is coming from right now - but I believe that is cyclical - which is also why KIIS - which has been playing more pop/rhythmic music has been doing so well. Things like PCD, Rihanna, etc. are replacing some of the hip-hop for listeners - and reggaeton for a period has also pulled Hispanics away (especially on the young end) from hip-hop.

I don't know if anyone has noticed that KXOL is actually playing slightly more hip-hop - closer to 50-50 than previously 75-25 reggaeton.

I agree that some Urban AC's have more multi-ethnic appeal than others. My point is that I firmly believe KKBT will have trouble attracting as large a Hispanic base with Urban AC as they did with Urban.

 

[davideduardo]

With the combined shares of KJLH and KKBT at 3.0 and of KJLH, KKBT, and KHHT at almost 6.0, of course the market can support one or two full-signal UACs. I don't know why this question is even discussed on this forum ad nauseam.

---- >>>> Yeah bout KHHT is mostly an Hispanic play.

The Arbitron-defined market is 40.7% Hispanic (12+). Approximately half Spanish-dominant.

------ >>> NO. LA Hispanics are 62% Spanish dominant.

That leaves 20% of the market as Hispanics inclined to listen to English radio. Not all Hispanics prefer or even like or tolerate urban music. Many prefer rock, pop, AC, country, punk, etc. Some prefer a mixture of music. Some prefer talk. Still I estimate the percentage that would prefer to primarily listen a station that plays predominately urban music - including hip-hop &/or R&B - as about a third, with another third preferring a mixture that includes some urban (KIIS, KTWV, KBIG, etc.), and the remaining third preferring non-urban (KROQ, KLOS, talk, etc.). That leaves about 6.6% of the market as Hispanic urban listeners.

----- >>>> R&B has a very low appeal among Hispanics. It is hip-hop that is popular among Hispanics, but R&B has much, much more limited appeal.


The San Francisco market has two relatively well-performing UACs with market demographics similar to LA. Houston's and Miami's UACs are #1 and #2 respectively in their markets; of course, they are also the only UACs in their markets.

----- >>>>> Miami has nearly triple the Black percentage, plus Caribbean Hispanics do like R&B a lot more than Mexican Hispanics.

 

[Bianco500]

For now, the KKBT/Emmis rumor is dead in the water anyways. But rumors do have a way of coming back, look at KZLA, they were rumored so many times to flip and yet they never did....till August 18th.

 

[researcher]

For now, the KKBT/Emmis rumor is dead in the water anyways. But rumors do have a way of coming back, look at KZLA, they were rumored so many times to flip and yet they never did....till August 18th.

I don't know that it ever got started or where it came from.