KKCY "The City"

[jprg]

Does anyone remember KKCY "The City" back in the mid 80's? I loved it with it's ecletic format even though it had a small but loyal audience. I would love to see "San Francisco's Record Collection" give it another shot even though the KKCY calls are used someplace else.

 

[djj]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I loved their billboards on I-80 in Vallejo:
"The only boring thing about our station is this billboard."
;D

You may recall James Gabbert bought 98.9 some time later and, with Thom O'hair, lauched
KOFY-FM, "The Spirit Of San Francisco," which tried to emulate "98.9 The City." It lasted,
what, about two years?
Or, as Ben Fong-Torres aptly described in one of his Chronicle Pinkie reviews, KOFY-FM
sounded "more like 'The Spirit Of K-101.."
--jay

 

[LKellerIII]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I loved their billboards on I-80 in Vallejo:
"The only boring thing about our station is this billboard."
;D

You may recall James Gabbert bought 98.9 some time later and, with Thom O'hair, lauched
KOFY-FM, "The Spirit Of San Francisco," which tried to emulate "98.9 The City." It lasted,
what, about two years?
Or, as Ben Fong-Torres aptly described in one of his Chronicle Pinkie reviews, KOFY-FM
sounded "more like 'The Spirit Of K-101.."
--jay

I more or less missed "The City"...my loss, I guess. At the time, I was somewhat bored with rock, and obsessed with jazz. But being a radio-nerd, I remember James Gabbert buying 98.9 - it was a big controversy. Though The City may have had a small listenership, they were rabid, and formed " The Committee to Save the City" -lobbied the FCC strongly and held up the sale to Gabbert for quite some time. They were suspicious that Gabbert wanted to turn 98.9's format into a new version of K-101, and they were probably right.

Gabbert made a lot of concessions to get the sale approved. He promised to keep the free-form format, but the resulting KOFY-FM format was kind of a mess, with Gabbert constantly trying to take it in a more pop-music direction. It ultimately lost all the free-form City listeners, but wasn't mainstream enough to attract any of hit-music audience.

Unfortunately, the history of "free-form" rock stations is a checkered one - they never last long because radio is a commercial medium, and need substantial ratings to sell air-time. All the free-form formats of the late 60s (KSAN and KMPX in SF, KMET and KPPC in LA) had just a few glorious years, and were then either co-opted by management into more restrictive AOR formats (like KSAN), or flipped formats entirely (like KMPX).

The most recent example is Indie 103.1 in Los Angeles, which just ended its short life as a modern day free-form station.

 

[Madmansam]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I think it might have been the format that drew small ratings considering that today, 98.9 is a Regional Mexican Powerhouse as KSOL despite the weak frequency.

 

[LKellerIII]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I think it might have been the format that drew small ratings considering that today, 98.9 is a Regional Mexican Powerhouse as KSOL despite the weak frequency.

Remember that KSOL simulcasts on the South Bay 99.1 frequency, which gives them good coverage. Post KOFY-FM, "Double 99" did the same, making it part of their imaging.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

98-9 "The City" was a marvelous station, but I think it lasted less than two years. It, along with the old 92.1 from Walnut Creek (what were those call letters? had a "Q" in 'em), were my favorite music stations as a newcomer to the East Bay in the 1980s. Right about the time KKSF debuted, too. KKCY had a really good vibe to it, without any of the silly liners and filler hype that drives discerning adults away from most commercial radio. Because of that, I knew it was doomed. It was just too good and too easy to listen to for long periods. Like WXRT in Chicago, but not too hard rockin'.

To get the feel of the station, just listen to Kate Bush "Running Up That Hill," throw in the long version of the O'Jays "Love Train, some Natalie Merchant, Santana, and a little Van Morrison before he got overplayed elsewhere, etc. They had a good blues show, too. I still have a casette or two somewhere of a KKCY aircheck from back then. Will have to dig 'em out and transfer it to CD.

I forget the name of the Irish guy who hosted middays - he was a delight. Didn't Norm Davis do the news, too?

I think the adult album rock format, with a decent personality picking many of the tunes, is still a format a few public radio stations are able to pull off in other parts of the country, with long time loyal supporters, and sometimes decent Arbitron ratings. Try the midwest and south to find most of them, in medium and smaller markets, with and without NPR newsmagazines in drive time.

It seems like the perfect thing for KALW to try, at least in one or two dayparts. I mean for decades KALW has pulled in than 30% of the audience you could expect them to attract in a public radio type of market like the Bay Area. A couple hours here and there of a mixed bag of music on KALW just doesn't make as something listeners can rely on to accompany their afternoon or evening. And "The City" type of format can really thrive with lower ratings than most commercial operators will tolerate. Because, when its done well with good air talent with refined and broad tastes, and includes new and older releases, it becomes something like what Tower Records or a Hear Music store was like, with a different economic model to pull it off. Anyone want to take this ball and see if it can snowball? Might give the commercial guys some creative competition if KALW, or one of the college stations, knew how to present a real AAA format as more than a specialty show.

 

[LKellerIII]

Re: KTIM in Marin

Interesting comments, Goldilocks. Since I never lived in Walnut Creek, I'm not familiar with the station you mentioned, but KTIM in San Rafael served the same purpose for me in the early and mid 1970s. Their signal would reach parts of San Francisco, but it was basically a local Marin County station. It survived with a more or less free-form format into the early or mid 80s. It was low key, and played great music. I believe Bob Gowa ( who posts here on occasion) was a jock there - and possibly PD. Another jock I always liked on KTIM was Paul something-or-other...can't recall his last name.

KTIM was owned by the Marin Independent-Journal, which was a very successful "small-town" daily paper in those days, and I got the impression that they took a hands-off attitude about KTIM, and didn't care that it wasn't making a lot of money.

The party ended in the mid 80s, when they decided to go with a smooth jazz format. The called it "The Wave" - and the owners of KTWV in Los Angeles sued them for copyright infringement, so they quickly changed to "The Tide." I believe the station ultimately went bankrupt.

As for the KALW idea - I like it. KCRW - public radio in Santa Monica - runs a great show called "Morning Becomes Eclectic" - the ultimate free form. Its' become an influential program in Los Angeles, and they've premiered quite a bit of new music.

http://www.kcrw.com/music/programs/mb

 

[SFStatic]

98-9 "The City" was a marvelous station, but I think it lasted less than two years. It, along with the old 92.1 from Walnut Creek (what were those call letters? had a "Q" in 'em), were my favorite music stations as a newcomer to the East Bay in the 1980s.

The 92.1 in Walnut Creek was KINQ for a time when Jim Chabin owned it. Later, it joined the am as KKIS-FM, and was AC.

 

[Madmansam]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I think it might have been the format that drew small ratings considering that today, 98.9 is a Regional Mexican Powerhouse as KSOL despite the weak frequency.

Remember that KSOL simulcasts on the South Bay 99.1 frequency, which gives them good coverage. Post KOFY-FM, "Double 99" did the same, making it part of their imaging.

I agree with you that KSOL benefits from the added coverage of 99.1, but I still don't think the Eclectic Sound of KKCY-THE CITY would have succeeded even if they had the additional coverage of 99.1. Even now with Corporate Radio.

 

[LKellerIII]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I think it might have been the format that drew small ratings considering that today, 98.9 is a Regional Mexican Powerhouse as KSOL despite the weak frequency.

Remember that KSOL simulcasts on the South Bay 99.1 frequency, which gives them good coverage. Post KOFY-FM, "Double 99" did the same, making it part of their imaging.

I agree with you that KSOL benefits from the added coverage of 99.1, but I still don't think the Eclectic Sound of KKCY-THE CITY would have succeeded even if they had the additional coverage of 99.1. Even now with Corporate Radio.

Oh, I totally agree, Madmansam. And I think you were saying that it would be even harder in today's corporate climate.

That's why I mentioned the recent Indie 103.1 in LA, which had a small but rabidly loyal audience for a couple of years until the inevitable downfall. Indie's fans have been expressing their anger and disappointment on the LA Board recently. It reminds me of my reaction 38 years ago when the owners of KPPC FM in Los Angeles ousted the entire staff of inventive and talented jocks and performers headed by Les Carter. The station stayed with an album rock format, but was never the same again. The owner was the National Science Foundation - hardly a huge media corporation like Clear Channel. But even then, the corporate desire to exert control and maximize profits won the day. It's to be expected.

 

[Madmansam]

Agreed...KKCY was unique and enjoyable, but being on the weak 98.9 frequency didn't help...

I think it might have been the format that drew small ratings considering that today, 98.9 is a Regional Mexican Powerhouse as KSOL despite the weak frequency.

Remember that KSOL simulcasts on the South Bay 99.1 frequency, which gives them good coverage. Post KOFY-FM, "Double 99" did the same, making it part of their imaging.

I agree with you that KSOL benefits from the added coverage of 99.1, but I still don't think the Eclectic Sound of KKCY-THE CITY would have succeeded even if they had the additional coverage of 99.1. Even now with Corporate Radio.

Oh, I totally agree, Madmansam. And I think you were saying that it would be even harder in today's corporate climate.

That's why I mentioned the recent Indie 103.1 in LA, which had a small but rabidly loyal audience for a couple of years until the inevitable downfall. Indie's fans have been expressing their anger and disappointment on the LA Board recently. It reminds me of my reaction 38 years ago when the owners of KPPC FM in Los Angeles ousted the entire staff of inventive and talented jocks and performers headed by Les Carter. The station stayed with an album rock format, but was never the same again. The owner was the National Science Foundation - hardly a huge media corporation like Clear Channel. But even then, the corporate desire to exert control and maximize profits won the day. It's to be expected.

Didn't National Science Foundation also own KMPX-106.9/98.9 San Francisco?

 

[DaveBayArea]

You may recall James Gabbert bought 98.9 some time later and, with Thom O'hair, lauched
KOFY-FM, "The Spirit Of San Francisco," which tried to emulate "98.9 The City." It lasted,
what, about two years?

The actual "spirit of san francisco" part lasted less than one ratings period, starting with a simulcast on TV-20 of a concert in the streets of San Francisco. Somebody called me one Saturday morning and said "you won't believe what's on TV". Wish I could have rolled a tape. I remember people commenting on the fact that they almost broke a 2 share even though they weren't on the air for a portion of the ratings period. I knew KOFY's time was up when I heard lots of lame stuff in afternoon drive. Tony Kilbert (?Gilbert?) was the afternoon guy at the time, and for maybe a month the station was listenable except in the afternoon. Then, slowly all of the creative people left and somewhere in there Thom O'hair either resigned or was forced out. It ambled along as a hit music station for a while after that, but it was very uneventful. Some of those Nancy Walton / Norman Davis evening shows were just outrageous tho.

Yeah KKCY was something else too. But different. Probably too eclectic for most tastes, but there were some real gems. They had Norman Davis in the evenings, and Alan Burton - who did a Saturday morning "must hear" show called "Old North Beach". He later went to overnights, and I remember waking up in the morning the day Kate Wolf died to hear Alan and Wavy Gravy talking about Kate's life. Great radio, but probably not something that would pass muster in a listening room.

Dave B.

 

[LKellerIII]

You may recall James Gabbert bought 98.9 some time later and, with Thom O'hair, lauched
KOFY-FM, "The Spirit Of San Francisco," which tried to emulate "98.9 The City." It lasted,
what, about two years?

The actual "spirit of san francisco" part lasted less than one ratings period, starting with a simulcast on TV-20 of a concert in the streets of San Francisco. Somebody called me one Saturday morning and said "you won't believe what's on TV". Wish I could have rolled a tape. I remember people commenting on the fact that they almost broke a 2 share even though they weren't on the air for a portion of the ratings period. I knew KOFY's time was up when I heard lots of lame stuff in afternoon drive. Tony Kilbert (?Gilbert?) was the afternoon guy at the time, and for maybe a month the station was listenable except in the afternoon. Then, slowly all of the creative people left and somewhere in there Thom O'hair either resigned or was forced out. It ambled along as a hit music station for a while after that, but it was very uneventful. Some of those Nancy Walton / Norman Davis evening shows were just outrageous tho.

Yeah KKCY was something else too. But different. Probably too eclectic for most tastes, but there were some real gems. They had Norman Davis in the evenings, and Alan Burton - who did a Saturday morning "must hear" show called "Old North Beach". He later went to overnights, and I remember waking up in the morning the day Kate Wolf died to hear Alan and Wavy Gravy talking about Kate's life. Great radio, but probably not something that would pass muster in a listening room.

Dave B.

i think that "lame stuff" you refer to may have been the result of the push-pull between James Gabbert and O"Hair. I'm not particularly putting down Gabbert - he's a radio genius or sorts - just saying what I remember. Gabbert had promised to keep a basically free-form format like The City as part of the agreement to buy 98.9. I don't remember all the particulars - perhaps there was no real legal contract, or it wasn't enforceable.

Madman - I'm not sure if the National Science Foundation owned KMPX too - but I remember that the free-form format at KPPC was brought about by Tom Donahue who was also programming KMPX - so it's a good bet. There were always fights between the "hippie" jocks and programmers, and management. Donahue ended up leaving KPPC and KMPX to program KSAN and it's MetroMedia sister station, KMET in LA.

 

[Bauer 707]

Re: KTIM in Marin

Interesting comments, Goldilocks. Since I never lived in Walnut Creek, I'm not familiar with the station you mentioned, but KTIM in San Rafael served the same purpose for me in the early and mid 1970s. Their signal would reach parts of San Francisco, but it was basically a local Marin County station. It survived with a more or less free-form format into the early or mid 80s. It was low key, and played great music. I believe Bob Gowa ( who posts here on occasion) was a jock there - and possibly PD. Another jock I always liked on KTIM was Paul something-or-other...can't recall his last name.

KTIM was owned by the Marin Independent-Journal, which was a very successful "small-town" daily paper in those days, and I got the impression that they took a hands-off attitude about KTIM, and didn't care that it wasn't making a lot of money.

The jocks name was Paul Boucher. He did the 6 to 9 or 10 pm shift. My future ex-wife used to work with Paul, pulling records and reading the entertainment news. I was there from sometime in 1975 to June of 1978 as first an assistant engineer then Chief Engineer. The other on air folks that I remember at that time were, David T., Clint Weyrauch- the PD, Tony Beradini, Dusty Street, Bill Scott, Susie Davis, and I am sure I am forgetting many others.

KTIM was a fun place to work. We were in the old IJ building at 1040 B street. The IJ never really knew what to do with those hippies upstairs and left us alone. Ollie Hayden was the GM at the time and was a pretty good guy to work for.

We really did not have anything resembling a good signal in San Francisco, but were pretty popular in the north bay, in fact one of the slogans was, KTIM, The North Bay Noise.

Good times. I have not really heard a good free form station like KTIM since its demise.

 

[jprg]

Remembering KKCY, I liked Dan Carlyle (sp?) who did The Night Service usually around 6 PM Mon-Fri. Yes I remember the Irish jock middays who did the International Cafe around 12 Noon. I think his name was Bill Kiernan or something like that.

 

[Madmansam]

Back To KMPX

If I remember right, Didn't KMPX consider changing formats from Big Band to R&B sometime in the 1970's but there was such a big outrage, that they reconsidered and stay Big Band? I don't know if this was when KMPX was still on 106.9 or when they switched to 98.9? Also If I recall, When KMPX-98.9 became KQAK-The Quake in 1982, didn't KTIM-1510 switched to Big Band from Free Form to fill the void?

 

[LKellerIII]

Re: Back To KMPX

If I remember right, Didn't KMPX consider changing formats from Big Band to R&B sometime in the 1970's but there was such a big outrage, that they reconsidered and stay Big Band? I don't know if this was when KMPX was still on 106.9 or when they switched to 98.9? Also If I recall, When KMPX-98.9 became KQAK-The Quake in 1982, didn't KTIM-1510 switched to Big Band from Free Form to fill the void?

Using BARM as a reference source, KMPX first flipped to a Big Band format in 1972 at "107 FM" (106.9), then swapped frequencies and became "Big Band 99" (98.9). KTIM-AM did flip to a Big Band format around that time, but I don't know if it filled much of a void with such a weak signal - witness Saul Levine's later failed attempts to do anything lasting with that signal. Magic 61 certainly filled the Big Band void much better, but "Magic" didn't come along until 1986 or so.

The K-Pig simulcast is probably the best use of 1510 - cheap to run, and useful when you need a K-Pig fix in your car...at least until car radios get internet capability.

 

[Metis]

The City was absolutely amazing. It must have ended in 1987 and I mentioned it just last week to a radio personality up in Reno. When I think of free form, KKCY really did have a huge impact.

I remember listening to it all the way up in Nevada City, so it had to have some signal strength. They played Jefferson Airplane's Amniotic Fluid the morning I went into labor with daughter November 22, 1986- It was a surreal memory.

 

[suburbandj]

Remembering KKCY, I liked Dan Carlyle (sp?) who did The Night Service usually around 6 PM Mon-Fri. Yes I remember the Irish jock middays who did the International Cafe around 12 Noon. I think his name was Bill Kiernan or something like that.

Dan Carlisle did weekends on The Band before they went Oldies. Former Program Director, Dave Logan hired him.

 

[1069_KIFR]

I remember at one point after KKCY and before the Double FM, it was 98.9 K-Hits for a short time.