• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

KKGO BITES IT

  • Thread starter jimmythebassett
  • Start date

Reply To Shirley.... :)

KKGO Needs....

1) Music! The correct mix of...The latest hits, the Best of the 90's, some select Classics!
2) Marketing! TV, Bus Boards, Billboards, Events, Parties, Remotes, Web, and Concert Presents...
3) Morning Show! (Just needs direction and producer)

Big TSL and low cume = T-R-O-U-B-L-E! Which is also a good tune and Tush Push from Travis Tritt!
 
Getting rid of the afternoon guy was not a good way to kick off. I personally think Shawn and Robin are ok in the morning but if you, LAFMDJ, were made PD for Day who would get that position?

I think your music suggestions are valid, though here unspecific.

I like Jim Duncan, who has done fill in for afternoons if we had to lose The Toddster, Paul Freeman is a little too laid back for afternoon drive, but I don't know who could be for mornings.
 
LAFMDJ said:
Reply To Shirley.... :)

KKGO Needs....

1) Music! The correct mix of...The latest hits, the Best of the 90's, some select Classics!
2) Marketing! TV, Bus Boards, Billboards, Events, Parties, Remotes, Web, and Concert Presents...
3) Morning Show! (Just needs direction and producer)

Big TSL and low cume = T-R-O-U-B-L-E! Which is also a good tune and Tush Push from Travis Tritt!

Come on Dude, I asked how you would change the music on KKGO and this is your response? Is it that you really don't know? Tush Push is played wayyyyyyy tooo often and so is Watermelon Crawl. YUCK!!!

All your years in the industry and you can't really address this? If you know so much about what a PD should be doing and the music, why are you not one? Okay, you may not be good at the adminstrative duties of that position but just for one day and this post, put that hat on and reply to me.
 
DavidEduardo said:
jimmythebassett said:
Levine and Biscayne got "pied pipered" by the music industry. They told
them that if they brought Country back to LA, they would finance the
move. That was in the trades, not a secret - It was published payola.

Payola occurs when an employee of a station takes money unknown to the owner or top management and plays or plugs something for personal benefit. In no way is KKGO engaging in payola.

The fact is, the record industry and CMA are supporting KKGO by ad buys and concert promotions and such, just as they did for KZLA. They are not influencing the play of individual songs, which would be "pay for play" if done by management anyway. They are simply providing a revenue base to help keep country alive in LA. That is legitimate, above boarde and actually commendable that stations be supported by the leaders of the genre.

Now I am not agreeing people at that station are getting payola, but how do you know for sure? Are you in the alley ways those dark sweaty nights when an exchange could take place with ever DJ there? Do you follow their every move 24/7? or maybe because you know them and they are not that kind?

I know them too and yet in life there are times when someone surprises you. Everything is not black and white. Though I would agree that several over there would not accept payola, but then when money is tight and you may have a house going into forecloseure or something, people get desperate. (Again, not saying that is the case for anyone at that station).

Maybe I need to ask/say this because most of your posts come off as if you know all and everyone else is wrong in their wording/knowledge. Now I say "Come off" because that may not be your intent at all. Lord knows reading posts and emails come with our impressions and not always the way they are intended. Your response seems like a harsh correction. Feel free to help me understand your angle.
 
Marv-L.A. said:
Firing afternoon star Todd Baker (if indeed he was fired) is ressponsbily stupid and indefensibly asinine; he was clearly the best PM drive on an adult-oriented radio station in LA save for KRTH's 'Shotgun' Tom Kelly.

Insofar as the music; they've been playing their 'currents' and 'powers' 40-50+ times per week as KZLA did, and while their library is indeed larger, and their TSL is exceptional,
the morning and midday personalities are pretty weak, and the morning show guy appears to be able to play what he wants to hear with no interference from anyone else.


First, I love the way you word things. Thanks.

Okay, maybe you can answer me this query as I have pondered it for some time. I know that radio stations (aka Broadcast companies) "love" or most often feel the "need" to not let Listeners know when they are going to flip or let an on-air talent go. Some of that makes sense as none of us get to know when a company may fire us or even lay us off. Okay, makes sense for no heads up there.

HOWEVER, radio stations do not honor or respect their listeners at all when they do not offer an explanation or address the issue WHATSOEVER (no need for truth here, just that the personality is gone). PDs and Managers tell me that the listening audience is somewhat "stupid" and won't even care that “X” DJ is gone. (They did not use the word stupid). Yes, people can forget fast about a personality, but there is something they don't forget ~ Treatment. I'll get back to that.

What I don't understand is why all threads on station message board, or the ability for listeners to express their pain is removed. Gone. Out of sight. Listeners will move on?

As a listener and as someone who talks to a lot of listeners, I can tell you that the removal of a personality is almost less painful than the way the station handles that removal/change. It might not be what the station wants to see on their message board, but I feel they should allow listeners a place to express their pain and leave messages for that talent that has been removed from their airwaves. It let's the listeners get it out of their system and move on. Then the station can remove that thread later down the line.

I would think that would be a better alternative than what is going on now at KKGO. Yes, Todd was one of their best there. That idea speaks volumes about what is going on.

Their listeners have a new phrase and it’s KKGONE. That speaks ever louder.

Hope, Marv-L.A. you can shed some light for me.
 
Shirley, Shirley, Shirley...

I can't give away the farm for free! I've already offered way too much info! If they just used the info I've posted they could increase 100%.

It's very basic....Ya'll are overthinking this...

Music...Marketing...Morning Show!

Shawn and the lady (Robin) are fine in the Morning, they just need some simple PD guidence. Not provided by the current PD...Shawn has a huge following, is loved by the artists and managers, has national voice recognition, does great remotes and night club appearances. (He was taught by the best) ;).

Paul freeman would be great in Middays...He also has a name, a following and is a consistant, hard worker. I worked with him before.

Can't say who I would put in afternoons, not because I don't know.... I just can't say it.

Evenings needs a new young, hungry, aggresive, high energy country music lovin, dancin radio pro! Who can work the phones every record and connect the audience with each other and the station! A fun, high energy, active, young, exciting show! Kinda like JoJo at KIIS. (Also taught by the best) ;) Again...I know thee perfect person for nights but just can't say!

Overnights: Blair Garner...Perfect! If not Automate The Country Midnight Special.

Weekends: Regular Saturdays with more music less talk and live remotes on location.

Sundays should feature specialty programming...The Top 90 of the 90's...The 105 Country Favorites of all time...DoubleShot Sundays? ;)

This is just too easy....

Easy Money!
 
Shirley, Shirley, Shirley....

Maybe I am a PD?
Or Maybe Just A Listener...
Maybe I'm a Weekender...
Or Maybe Just a DJ or MD...
Wait maybe I'm a GM or Owner?
What about an AE or the Controller?
Maybe I'm in HR,
Wait I might work for a research Company or even Arbitron!

Or maybe I'm just the janitor and I go through the trash cans at KKGO every night and look at the message book at the front desk?

Or just maybe................. I'm Garth!
 
shirleyschmidt said:
Now I am not agreeing people at that station are getting payola, but how do you know for sure? Are you in the alley ways those dark sweaty nights when an exchange could take place with ever DJ there? Do you follow their every move 24/7? or maybe because you know them and they are not that kind?

DJs are seldom in a position to select songs, so they would not get payola even if such was a practice. Music is programmed on a computer, well in advance of each day's programming being aired and loaded, typically, to the digital storage device and played automatically. Management checks MediaBase of BDS periodically to verify the logs are being followed.

At most stations, if a jock deviates from the playlist, they get fired.

The post I answered said the record industry was supporting country via illegal payola. In fact, the countrymusic industry is supporting the station by buying time for events and CD sales, which is neither illegal nor payola.
 
LAFMDJ,

You can't give away the farm guy. I did not need a song list, but an overall description (which you did in the post anyways). I know you worked with Paul before and I do love him, but afternoons is not really his shift. Yea Todd did have his quirks, but people LOVED that about him. Please don't place Shawn in that same bucket because he has quirks too.... some of the same ones as Todd.. and if one goes, management might consider the other. It's bvious that audience love counts for nothing at KKGO.

LOVE BLAIR. He would be great for the morning show. Be careful if he joins that station because HE has a huge following (though he loves his show and I am sure the $$ won't be there).

As for talent loving that morning guy.. I know a number of them who want nothing to do with him. Up and coming talent pay their respects for spins and yea there are a few who love him, but not as many as you make it sound. Many tolerate him (and you can see it on stage in comments and body language) because they have to. One such talent who use to be his friend now asks me "What has happened to him?" Sad to my heart.

Shawn does need guidance and needs to follow it. He needs to hear what so many are saying about his "I" sentences and come up with topics of greater importance to the listeners than what is at an innersection. Interviews topics cannot continue be turned back to the topic of him. people don't care, they want to hear what their favorite talent has to say about themselves, not Shawn. I know that man is capable of that. No question. But does he want to put in the time required for thiese things?

Marketing... oh heavens forbid. I have said that a million times that marketing promotions needs to be done.I think everyone on this board has said that. Hell, if Shawn and I were friends I would give him this awesome idea that would blow KKGO out of the water and give Shawn a national spotlight right now... and it would cost KKGO maybe a hundred - two hundred bucks. Why give the farm away for free, and why help him? (Though one can argue he doesn't need it - but you just stated the station does).

He had such a great following at one time. Now all I hear is how he has changed and that Robin is a "yes" woman under his control and she is afraid of being fired. True or not - that is the perception left with listeners.

I would also state who would be perfect for that afternoon shift, also with a great following, but again.. KKGO can't pay and I don't give it away for free either.

Ahhh..the list of who you might be.. You'd love to be Garth or on stage with Tim McGraw, but that's not happening. Could have owned a GM... but don't work there... LOL. Can I laugh at the controller part? That is almost a pun. Janitor? Oh heavens, you would pull that shift if you had too, but no way are you one of those. Good ones.

Are you thinking of changing your screen name then??

May I pose this... as PD of the station, how would you change the morning show on KKGO?? "Im just asking"
 
shirleyschmidt said:
Now I am not agreeing people at that station are getting payola, but how do you know for sure? Are you in the alley ways those dark sweaty nights when an exchange could take place with ever DJ there? Do you follow their every move 24/7? or maybe because you know them and they are not that kind?

DJs are seldom in a position to select songs, so they would not get payola even if such was a practice. Music is programmed on a computer, well in advance of each day's programming being aired and loaded, typically, to the digital storage device and played automatically. Management checks MediaBase of BDS periodically to verify the logs are being followed.

At most stations, if a jock deviates from the playlist, they get fired.

The post I answered said the record industry was supporting country via illegal payola. In fact, the countrymusic industry is supporting the station by buying time for events and CD sales, which is neither illegal nor payola.
 
DavidEduardo said:
shirleyschmidt said:
Now I am not agreeing people at that station are getting payola, but how do you know for sure? Are you in the alley ways those dark sweaty nights when an exchange could take place with ever DJ there? Do you follow their every move 24/7? or maybe because you know them and they are not that kind?

DJs are seldom in a position to select songs, so they would not get payola even if such was a practice. Music is programmed on a computer, well in advance of each day's programming being aired and loaded, typically, to the digital storage device and played automatically. Management checks MediaBase of BDS periodically to verify the logs are being followed.

At most stations, if a jock deviates from the playlist, they get fired.

The post I answered said the record industry was supporting country via illegal payola. In fact, the countrymusic industry is supporting the station by buying time for events and CD sales, which is neither illegal nor payola.


True true about songs being songs being programmed, but they still have some leeway. Again, some things are not as hard fast as they appear.

And who is at the front lines... oh yeah DJs... now you have picked on a topic I have a pet peeve about. Focus groups, trade mags, record label promotions should not be a local radio stations sole basis for that programming. Since DJ are the front lines, and they are often out in public venues and events, stations NEED to let them have more input...more than marking a notch on a list of songs that people call in about.

I have spoken to a number of DJ who sight this very problem. Sometimes they feel almost useless when it comes to what they spin.

As for the other post, there is payola out there. We all know that. Law suits have been filed about it, people and stations convicted. There is the advertising style payola too, but that's yet another topic. Payola can be for more than just spins and can come in many different forms. Plus, radio industry is not the only industry this occurs in.
 
No Payola here.... still watching old WKRP episodes on my old 13in black and white Zenith!!

You need to talk to the PD or MD with the 52in Plasma in his bathroom!!!
 
shirleyschmidt said:
True true about songs being songs being programmed, but they still have some leeway. Again, some things are not as hard fast as they appear.

As I said, at most stations jocks who change or even alter the order of the music log are fired. A lot of work goes into the log, all intended to establich flow, era balance, tempo segues, artist protection, horizontal and vertical rotations, demographic appeal, etc. No PD will let a jock destroy this hard and critical work any more thn GM would let the paint shop change the standard colors of a Chevy.

And who is at the front lines... oh yeah DJs... now you have picked on a topic I have a pet peeve about. Focus groups, trade mags, record label promotions should not be a local radio stations sole basis for that programming.

Focus groups are not used for music selection. Trades are just a reference. Record label hype is nearly never a consideration. New songs are added based on the PD (and MD if there is on) evaluation of new cuts. Oldies are programmed based on listener rating of each song. Only stations who can not afforde to reseaarch each song locally use consensus or safe lists. But in the larger makets, music stations base play on listener evaluations of each song, not focus groups, trades or record ducks quacking.

Since DJ are the front lines, and they are often out in public venues and events, stations NEED to let them have more input...more than marking a notch on a list of songs that people call in about.

There is nothing more dangerous than using club experiences or event experiences to program. A club or a venue is not a radio station. I have gleefully beaten many stations that failed to take into account average radio listeners, not club patrons.

I have spoken to a number of DJ who sight this very problem. Sometimes they feel almost useless when it comes to what they spin.

Very sad. It's not their job.

As for the other post, there is payola out there. We all know that. Law suits have been filed about it, people and stations convicted.

There have been less than a dozen convictions since the first investigation in the 50's. There have been, to the best of my knowledge, no law suits. Payola is a federal criminal offense, not a civil court matter.

A station can not be convicted of payola since by definition a station can not commit the crime... only an emplyee who plays songs not authorized by management for personal gain.

There is the advertising style payola too, but that's yet another topic.

That is not payola. It is legitimate advertising as long as sponsor identification rules are complied with. Perfectly legal.

Payola can be for more than just spins and can come in many different forms. Plus, radio industry is not the only industry this occurs in.

The legal term of payola applies only to radio airplay. While I suppose the term can be applied to other kinds of bribery, the use, legally, is only applied to bribery to play records as described above.
 
LAFMDJ said:
Shirley, Shirley, Shirley....

Maybe I am a PD?
Or Maybe Just A Listener...
Maybe I'm a Weekender...
Or Maybe Just a DJ or MD...
Wait maybe I'm a GM or Owner?
What about an AE or the Controller?
Maybe I'm in HR,
Wait I might work for a research Company or even Arbitron!

Or maybe I'm just the janitor and I go through the trash cans at KKGO every night and look at the message book at the front desk?

Or just maybe................. I'm Garth!

........ or maybe you are that disco duck guy, Shawn's hero and mentor! What's his name again...... oh, yeah, Rick Dees, isn't it? I'm just sayin'.....
 
or maybe you are that disco duck guy, Shawn's hero and mentor! What's his name again...... oh, yeah, Rick Dees, isn't it? I'm just sayin'.....

Nope..... But I have spun it on almost every station I have worked for including KIIS FM!
 
DavidEduardo said:
shirleyschmidt said:
True true about songs being songs being programmed, but they still have some leeway. Again, some things are not as hard fast as they appear.

As I said, at most stations jocks who change or even alter the order of the music log are fired. A lot of work goes into the log, all intended to establich flow, era balance, tempo segues, artist protection, horizontal and vertical rotations, demographic appeal, etc. No PD will let a jock destroy this hard and critical work any more thn GM would let the paint shop change the standard colors of a Chevy.

And who is at the front lines... oh yeah DJs... now you have picked on a topic I have a pet peeve about. Focus groups, trade mags, record label promotions should not be a local radio stations sole basis for that programming.

Focus groups are not used for music selection. Trades are just a reference. Record label hype is nearly never a consideration. New songs are added based on the PD (and MD if there is on) evaluation of new cuts. Oldies are programmed based on listener rating of each song. Only stations who can not afforde to reseaarch each song locally use consensus or safe lists. But in the larger makets, music stations base play on listener evaluations of each song, not focus groups, trades or record ducks quacking.

Okay this post may get long. Do they have limits here?? responses will be short (so stuff will be left off and I won't touch on everything I wish I could)

Focus groups are asked as to what they want to hear on the station and/or what about the music keeps them off a particular station. If they throw this information away, then why ask? (Not really a question). Afterall people don't tune into music stations to hear DJs talk all day. Evaluations in and of themselves have inherent. issues of error, but left with no other choice is better than nothing I guess.

Since DJ are the front lines, and they are often out in public venues and events, stations NEED to let them have more input...more than marking a notch on a list of songs that people call in about.

There is nothing more dangerous than using club experiences or event experiences to program. A club or a venue is not a radio station. I have gleefully beaten many stations that failed to take into account average radio listeners, not club patrons.

They talk with the people who listen to their station. DJs are not stupid, and anyone worth their weight knows what is garbage and knows what is a good idea and advice. Listeners are not stupid either and often have some good ideas. Never said a club or venue was a radio station, but appearance for on-air talent happens there and I am talking about those events...not a monday night at Joe's bar and grill.

I have spoken to a number of DJ who sight this very problem. Sometimes they feel almost useless when it comes to what they spin.

Very sad. It's not their job.

Their job or not, their input can be valuable. At least a PD can listen and take it in instead of never listening. Teams work so much better and their "hard work" can improve when everyone works as a team. PDs are are not Gods.

As for the other post, there is payola out there. We all know that. Law suits have been filed about it, people and stations convicted.

There have been less than a dozen convictions since the first investigation in the 50's. There have been, to the best of my knowledge, no law suits. Payola is a federal criminal offense, not a civil court matter.

A station can not be convicted of payola since by definition a station can not commit the crime... only an emplyee who plays songs not authorized by management for personal gain.

By stations, I meant the management and the company, which can. Law is a living breathing beast that changes daily. That is another topic all together.

There is the advertising style payola too, but that's yet another topic.

That is not payola. It is legitimate advertising as long as sponsor identification rules are complied with. Perfectly legal.

Perfectly profit in a pocket and because something is by definition legal, does not always hold up on the ethics scale.

Payola can be for more than just spins and can come in many different forms. Plus, radio industry is not the only industry this occurs in.


The legal term of payola applies only to radio airplay. While I suppose the term can be applied to other kinds of bribery, the use, legally, is only applied to bribery to play records as described above.

I have heard "mafia-types" use that term and others for meaning payoffs. Yes, I was speaking in a non-legal sense of the word and being flippant. I guess I could sit here all day and use all terms with full definitions to make you happier on my wording, but that is unlikely to ever occur, as legalese gets boring and has too many words associated with it, but is not limited to any size of a post on a site like this one.

Hope this is not too long.
 
ceejay said:
LAFMDJ said:
Shirley, Shirley, Shirley....

Maybe I am a PD?
Or Maybe Just A Listener...
Maybe I'm a Weekender...
Or Maybe Just a DJ or MD...
Wait maybe I'm a GM or Owner?
What about an AE or the Controller?
Maybe I'm in HR,
Wait I might work for a research Company or even Arbitron!

Or maybe I'm just the janitor and I go through the trash cans at KKGO every night and look at the message book at the front desk?

Or just maybe................. I'm Garth!

........ or maybe you are that disco duck guy, Shawn's hero and mentor! What's his name again...... oh, yeah, Rick Dees, isn't it? I'm just sayin'.....


Really?? Disco Duck man could not have come up with a post as clever as LAFMDJ did... Nope... can't be him. ;D

Sorry that anyone would want to be Dees, worship Dees, sound like Dees, or be in Dees shoes right now. Now long will he be on KMVN?
 
shirleyschmidt said:
Focus groups are asked as to what they want to hear on the station and/or what about the music keeps them off a particular station. If they throw this information away, then why ask? (Not really a question). Afterall people don't tune into music stations to hear DJs talk all day. Evaluations in and of themselves have inherent. issues of error, but left with no other choice is better than nothing I guess.

Focus groups are a form of perceptual research. While music image may be discussed.. such as things like "is the music on KXXX for people older than you, younger than you or just like you?... it is mostly done to determine the overall image of the station, and often is confined to one airshift or one issue that has arrisen. A focus group is 8 to 12 persons, and a many have to be done to form an opinion. They are usually about an hour of pure chatting with a moderator from a research company.

Music is tested via large groups... typically 80 to 130... who hear snippets of 500 or so songs and vote on each one. Some research companies use electroninc dials, and have the data processed by the next day for the station to use. There is zero chat.

They talk with the people who listen to their station. DJs are not stupid, and anyone worth their weight knows what is garbage and knows what is a good idea and advice. Listeners are not stupid either and often have some good ideas. Never said a club or venue was a radio station, but appearance for on-air talent happens there and I am talking about those events...not a monday night at Joe's bar and grill.

The danger is that one is talking to a subset of listeners. To find out what the listeners as a whole want you have to recruit a representative and proportional sample of every listener group. That will not happen at a club or a remote. So the data is potentially very damaging and, in fact, nearly always is wrong.

Their job or not, their input can be valuable. At least a PD can listen and take it in instead of never listening. Teams work so much better and their "hard work" can improve when everyone works as a team. PDs are are not Gods.

No, the listeners are our gods. DJs, coldly put, are hired to entertain, not to program. Programmers consult listeners, not DJs. Most DJs do not have programming experience, any more than those who assemble cars have any knowledge of how to designe an engine.

Perfectly profit in a pocket and because something is by definition legal, does not always hold up on the ethics scale.

Why would it be unethical for a record company to advertise its CDs on the radio?
 
shirleyschmidt said:
ceejay said:
LAFMDJ said:
Shirley, Shirley, Shirley....

Maybe I am a PD?
Or Maybe Just A Listener...
Maybe I'm a Weekender...
Or Maybe Just a DJ or MD...
Wait maybe I'm a GM or Owner?
What about an AE or the Controller?
Maybe I'm in HR,
Wait I might work for a research Company or even Arbitron!

Or maybe I'm just the janitor and I go through the trash cans at KKGO every night and look at the message book at the front desk?

Or just maybe................. I'm Garth!

........ or maybe you are that disco duck guy, Shawn's hero and mentor! What's his name again...... oh, yeah, Rick Dees, isn't it? I'm just sayin'.....


Really?? Disco Duck man could not have come up with a post as clever as LAFMDJ did... Nope... can't be him. ;D

Sorry that anyone would want to be Dees, worship Dees, sound like Dees, or be in Dees shoes right now. Now long will he be on KMVN?

LOL..... I guess I don't have to tell you how we KZLA orphans felt about that guy, for quite a long time. No more, though, how does that old saying go ..... he who laughs last, laughs best! ;D ;D ;D
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom