KKGO off the air 1-26-08

[nmoore6676]

I recall a case from a small market in Ohio when one AM and FM combo was knocked off the air by a tornado taking down their single tower. The AM which in those days was the most important was loaned the spare transmitter of the only competitor in town and they broadcast from a hastily rigged diplex arrangement from the same site. AM is a lot easier as David suggests, in that case the FM was out of luck until the tower was replaced. Of course without all of the Nimbys that we have now that project went a lot faster than KFI's situation (less than a month).

My question is now how many FM's in LA have total redundancy from a different location? Scott Fybush has in his tower site visits noted the CBS situation in the Verdugos. KXOL I believe still maintains a backup at Montecito Heights (also gleaned for Fybush). Mount Wilson is an ideal location signal wise but the weather and accessibility issues might make having alternate arrangements desirable. Of course that is expensive insurance given real estate issues and maintenance costs. I guess I'm asking does anybody see it as viable from the cost standpoint.

Others here have suggested that KKGO was somehow less than responsible for not having another site ready to go or at least a resident tech on the mountaintop. There are a lot of the people decrying the dominance of big corporate radio and consolidation but they also seem ready to dump on the independents who don't have all of the toys the big guys do. Being off the air was a bad thing especially on this one weekend but I'm sure nobody saw that all that must have occurred at one time would either.

 

[fybush]

I wonder how many of the (former) 1 A and 1 B clears have a spare tower or provision for a longwire?

Nearly all of the former I-As have auxiliary towers at their main sites, as a matter of fact. At least one, WBZ in Boston, has a full 10 kW backup transmitter and tower at its studio site, entirely separate from the main transmitter site 20 miles away. WCCO in Minneapolis bought a decommissioned site from a smaller AM station a few miles away from its main site and maintains it as an aux site. The only I-As I know of without any aux towers are WHAM here in Rochester, WSB in Atlanta (which was building an aux site at another location, last I heard), WBAP in Fort Worth, and I think KMOX.

In all this discussion, the heroes are the engineers who put these strange devices together under the worst of conditions. My hat is always off to them!

Mine, too. It's always heartening to see the way engineers throw out competitive pressures and band together to help the "competition" stay on the air when the chips are down. Fred Holub over at KROQ is a prince - and I know a dozen other engineers in LA who'd have done the same thing if need be to help out another station.

 

[davideduardo]

My question is now how many FM's in LA have total redundancy from a different location? Scott Fybush has in his tower site visits noted the CBS situation in the Verdugos. KXOL I believe still maintains a backup at Montecito Heights (also gleaned for Fybush). Mount Wilson is an ideal location signal wise but the weather and accessibility issues might make having alternate arrangements desirable. Of course that is expensive insurance given real estate issues and maintenance costs. I guess I'm asking does anybody see it as viable from the cost standpoint.

[/quote]

Most of the Wilson stations have two transmitters and two antennas on a single tower. Not that many have two towers, and fewer have two sites. Remember, that is national park land, and it is very difficult to add anything to what is there now. Alternatives are on the basin floor, and that may not be worth it.

Power has a backup on Flint, but I think the KXOL backup in Montecito (Drive, Heights, etc.) is not operative.

 

[shirleyschmidt]

Wow, this is a fun discussion. People all angered over a station losing their transmission. Seriously, arguing over that?

Wonder if KKGO will now rethink about setting up a back up system. The Garth Brooks (semi) return to stage in Los Angeles and KKGO is off the air. Sorry, but it makes me laugh a little. I guess that would be under the "act of God" clause insurance companies love to use.

Love the statement about getting to hear the reaccounts from the local DJ. Ha, I wonder how many times it was really a topic about what happened to him during the shows and not Garth? Hmm.. I'm just counting.... Joking. I don't listen to the station actually.
I had no idea they were down until the next day when someone told me. Oh well.

I am sure if ratings fall next quarter, that will be their excuse.

Wonder how Charlie Cook is doing over there? Any word? Hope some big changes are made soon.

 

[Mr1derful]

Wow, this is a fun discussion. People all angered over a station losing their transmission. Seriously, arguing over that?

Wonder if KKGO will now rethink about setting up a back up system. The Garth Brooks (semi) return to stage in Los Angeles and KKGO is off the air. Sorry, but it makes me laugh a little. I guess that would be under the "act of God" clause insurance companies love to use.

Love the statement about getting to hear the reaccounts from the local DJ. Ha, I wonder how many times it was really a topic about what happened to him during the shows and not Garth? Hmm.. I'm just counting.... Joking. I don't listen to the station actually. I had no idea they were down until the next day when someone told me. Oh well.

I am sure if ratings fall next quarter, that will be their excuse.

Wonder how Charlie Cook is doing over there? Any word? Hope some big changes are made soon.

Uh, Shirley, when did you stop listening? Here's a direct quote from you from the "KKGO Bites It" thread...

"As a listener and as someone who talks to a lot of listeners, I can tell you that the removal of a personality is almost less painful than the way the station handles that removal/change. "

Kinda flip-flopping, aren't we? You'd make a great presidential candidate! ;D

 

[davideduardo]

Wonder if KKGO will now rethink about setting up a back up system.

Likely nothing will change. While KKGO had a backup, it was in the same building as the main, and the building itself seems to have been the victim of snow and weather. Very few stations have multiple buildings... more common is one building with many stations.

You just can't prevent everything no matter how much you spend.

 

[shirleyschmidt]

Wow, this is a fun discussion. People all angered over a station losing their transmission. Seriously, arguing over that?

Wonder if KKGO will now rethink about setting up a back up system. The Garth Brooks (semi) return to stage in Los Angeles and KKGO is off the air. Sorry, but it makes me laugh a little. I guess that would be under the "act of God" clause insurance companies love to use.

Love the statement about getting to hear the reaccounts from the local DJ. Ha, I wonder how many times it was really a topic about what happened to him during the shows and not Garth? Hmm.. I'm just counting.... Joking. I don't listen to the station actually. I had no idea they were down until the next day when someone told me. Oh well.

I am sure if ratings fall next quarter, that will be their excuse.

Wonder how Charlie Cook is doing over there? Any word? Hope some big changes are made soon.

Uh, Shirley, when did you stop listening? Here's a direct quote from you from the "KKGO Bites It" thread...

"As a listener and as someone who talks to a lot of listeners, I can tell you that the removal of a personality is almost less painful than the way the station handles that removal/change. "

Kinda flip-flopping, aren't we? You'd make a great presidential candidate! ;D

Yep.... a great woman president at that.... you bet your sweet bibby (to quote Goldy).

You see this post above was after that post you quote. I was a listener, am not one now. I am not listening to the station so I don't know how many times someone turned it back to an "I" story. Have I listened in the past, and was I a listener (like many).

The station has become bland. There is no difference between air times with the exception of loudness.

It all depends on what the meaning of "IS" is. (I could not resist that one.)

(beware - Shirley is feeling bratish today. All in fun)

 

[shirleyschmidt]

Wonder if KKGO will now rethink about setting up a back up system.

Likely nothing will change. While KKGO had a backup, it was in the same building as the main, and the building itself seems to have been the victim of snow and weather. Very few stations have multiple buildings... more common is one building with many stations.

You just can't prevent everything no matter how much you spend.

That last line is true. But there is the option of using another building or renting antenna space ..etc (yes, I just simplified that statement but I think you know what I mean).

 

[nmoore6676]

Yep.... a great woman president at that.... you bet your sweet bibby (to quote Goldy).

I thought it was bippy. but then I just recently learned that a Walnetto was an actual candy.

That last line is true. But there is the option of using another building or renting antenna space ..etc (yes, I just simplified that statement but I think you know what I mean)

It all boils down to cost versus potential loss, the reason people buy insurance. If there had been several stations in one building like some are then a roof collapse or similar common problem would have had a greater effect across the dial. It was just poor timing for nature to wreak havoc and that is all that can really be said.

PS: I'll vote for you Shirley if you run.

 

[shirleyschmidt]

I'll take that vote ~ only a few million to go.

( ;D and it's nice to know people read and remember my posts too. What an honor that one was. Tnx Mr1derful)

True, true.... but why place all your eggs in one basket.. why don't stations share 'space" (be it roof tops or antennas) in an effort to keep themselves alive (such as TV does with helicopters)? One TV station may carry feed for the other while the other station helicopter refuels. (What am I saying, radio work together, sorry my bad. I am joking here.)

It might be bippy. Bibby works, doesn't it?? Do you know what the fickle finger of fate is? (Did I get that right?)

 

[SuperRadioFan]

Say "Goodnight, Dick!"

Goodnight Dick!


Still miss that show heh heh

 

[Rebafan]

I'll take that vote ~ only a few million to go.

( ;D and it's nice to know people read and remember my posts too. What an honor that one was. Tnx Mr1derful)

True, true.... but why place all your eggs in one basket.. why don't stations share 'space" (be it roof tops or antennas) in an effort to keep themselves alive (such as TV does with helicopters)? One TV station may carry feed for the other while the other station helicopter refuels. (What am I saying, radio work together, sorry my bad. I am joking here.)

It might be bippy. Bibby works, doesn't it?? Do you know what the fickle finger of fate is? (Did I get that right?)

Not sure if you got the bippy, Bibby... fickle finger of fate thing right, but it made me smile so what the heck...

I'll give you my vote as well

 

[lauu]

For the record: KNX has two towers in Torrance. The main tower is 494 feet high. The Aux (Standby, Back Up, Tower 2) tower is 364 feet high. Either will operate on 50 Kw, (or 10 Kw if need be) while the other is detuned (grounded). Operation on the Aux tower has only a small effect on the radiated signal.

 

[davideduardo]

That last line is true. But there is the option of using another building or renting antenna space ..etc (yes, I just simplified that statement but I think you know what I mean).

On Mt Wilson, most of the towers are relatively short, and just high enough to avoid the "edge" of the mountain blocking the signal for a main and aux antenna. The buildings generally do not have space or electrical service for more transmitters, either.

When 2-13 have to sign off, the analog TV facilities could be used for backup sites... sort of like the Conde - Nast Building in NY is for the ESB... I wonder if anyone has thought of that idea?

 

[hillbillyRockstar]

So let me try to understand this...it's the biggest day in Los Angeles for country music since Garth retired. You're doing weeks and weeks of promotions/ticket giveaways and plan live broadcasts from the greatest arena in the country featuring the performer who is almost singly responsible for the popularity of modern country music and you're not prepared for any technical continency. If I was Ol Saul, I'd have had my chief tech living at the transmitter all week and would have made plans for as many engineers as I could find to provide back up assistance. And I've have made darn sure we had double triple and quadruple checked the back up systems/transmitters. While no one's saying what the problem is, I find this lapse in operational competency at such a critical time for the format in Los Angeles to be reprehensible.

If this happened to any other rated station in the market you'd be reading about management changes in the morning. Instead I predict laradio.com will write a loving tribute to the struggle of the valiant KKGO staff to get back on the air, how Saul personally drove his four wheel drive hybrid to the top of Mt. Wilson loaded with hot chocolate and Subway sandwiches (bought on trade) for his staff, how this "little station that could" was trying Soooooooooooooooo hard but nature wouldn't cooperate...

Sorry Garth, maybe next time LA will have a real country station for you...

Monday Morning Quarterback,

Just to let you know, you should provide suggestions before something happens--not after.

 

[hillbillyRockstar]

Wow, this is a fun discussion. People all angered over a station losing their transmission. Seriously, arguing over that?

Wonder if KKGO will now rethink about setting up a back up system. The Garth Brooks (semi) return to stage in Los Angeles and KKGO is off the air. Sorry, but it makes me laugh a little. I guess that would be under the "act of God" clause insurance companies love to use.

Love the statement about getting to hear the reaccounts from the local DJ. Ha, I wonder how many times it was really a topic about what happened to him during the shows and not Garth? Hmm.. I'm just counting.... Joking. I don't listen to the station actually. I had no idea they were down until the next day when someone told me. Oh well.

I am sure if ratings fall next quarter, that will be their excuse.

Wonder how Charlie Cook is doing over there? Any word? Hope some big changes are made soon.

Uh, Shirley, when did you stop listening? Here's a direct quote from you from the "KKGO Bites It" thread...

"As a listener and as someone who talks to a lot of listeners, I can tell you that the removal of a personality is almost less painful than the way the station handles that removal/change. "

Kinda flip-flopping, aren't we? You'd make a great presidential candidate! ;D

Yep.... a great woman president at that.... you bet your sweet bibby (to quote Goldy).

You see this post above was after that post you quote. I was a listener, am not one now. I am not listening to the station so I don't know how many times someone turned it back to an "I" story. Have I listened in the past, and was I a listener (like many).

The station has become bland. There is no difference between air times with the exception of loudness.

It all depends on what the meaning of "IS" is. (I could not resist that one.)

(beware - Shirley is feeling bratish today. All in fun)

Wow, what are the chances of catching someone right as they stop listening? I mean, on January 11 you are a listener and then January 26 comes and you're not.

That's a coincidence big enough to point out right there.

 

[RadioNumbers]

Ruh row, is someone calling out the person who is single handedly responsible for getting country back on the radio? You will be struck down by the country radio gods for this grievous error.

 

[Rebafan]

Bringing this back to the Topic of KKGO being off the air for 24 hours...

Michael Levine released a statement saying that it was fortunate that they did their live broadcast from the Staples Center on Friday and that it was disappointing to be down when so many people were on the way to Garth. He went on to say they were going to do some "LIVE CALL-INS" and that there was never a good time to be off the air.

From what I read on the KKGO message boards it seems that Paul Freeman was able to air 1 live caller on Friday night, no more were mentioned but if this is accurate and Mr. Levine was going to continue live call-ins for the concert on Saturday I would say that the station is taking a step in the right direction...

 

[shirleyschmidt]

That last line is true. But there is the option of using another building or renting antenna space ..etc (yes, I just simplified that statement but I think you know what I mean).

On Mt Wilson, most of the towers are relatively short, and just high enough to avoid the "edge" of the mountain blocking the signal for a main and aux antenna. The buildings generally do not have space or electrical service for more transmitters, either.

When 2-13 have to sign off, the analog TV facilities could be used for backup sites... sort of like the Conde - Nast Building in NY is for the ESB... I wonder if anyone has thought of that idea?

Let me ask you this, if you had a station like KKGO or the others that went off the air, what would you consider doing so that in the future this would not occur (if at all possible)?

 

[shirleyschmidt]

Hillbilly,

It was great timing. Tried it for a while but you do realize there was something that happened in that time frame right? Think about it. So I switched. Not listening now, which can mean that in the future I might listen again. Then again, I could switch off once again. That is the beauty of the dial and of competition.

For your keeping track of my listening pleasures I have been listening to MyFM, and Wave. If you would like, I will let you know when I switch around again. It could be 98.7 next and maybe even 93.9 (which I listened to a little last week. I like the new format there). You let me know Hillbilly if you need full accounts. ;D Then again, I really could care less.