KKGO Ratings

[hillbillyRockstar]

A note on these "fan clubs":

ha ha ha ha ha ha.

 

[hillbillyRockstar]

As I mentioned on the countryboards site, Parr is the worst-prepared AM drive personality in the market, and the show is far too contered on him. The morning show hosts at other adult-targeted stations (KOST/KTWV/KRTH) have been fanatical about airing a show which is 'family-friendly' for ages, which is why those three stations are powerhouses in morning drive, and around the clock as well.

It's not surprising to me that Parr doesn't have a fan club, and whoever issued the order banning live telephone calls is a megacolossal idiot.

Todd Baker is unquestionably the best new things to happen to the PM drive slot on an LA radio station since Ryan Seacrest & Lisa Foxx worked together @ KYSR.

In a city which has been noted for tons of legends and/or superstars in afternoon drive over the past forty-plus years, Baker is well on his way to possibly joining that fraternity once that indefensibly asinine ban on live phone calls is abolished.

But Parr's show is too vulgar and laced with innuendo for him to become a morning drive radio star in this city; his numerous references to 'Seinfeld' are also obnoxiously overdone.

He's also as undisciplined as anybody I've ever heard in my 50+ years as an LA resident, and 40+ years as a radio junkie, going back to the days of morning drive legends such as Robert W. Morgan, Charlie Van dyke, Charlie Tuna, Dick Whittinghill, Dick Whittington, Rick Dees, Dick Haynes, 'Emperor' Bob Hudson', and even former KZLA morning stars Gerry House & Ken Cooper.

Here's what needs to happen. PD Tonya Campos needs to have a serious sit down with Shawn and Robin about the direction the morning show is going in. She's got to take control of this situation and nip it in the bud. If she not going to do it, then she should hire a radio talent coach to work with Shawn and Robin. Someone who can provide constructive criticism on what's good about the show(Shawn's energy and passion for country music and his long association with the format and its artists) and what's bad about it(sexual enuendo, Shawn talking too much about himself, talking at Robin and instead talk TO her, no prepping of the morning show). I was going to add "no live callers" to what's bad about the show, but I think that's an ownership issue and programming can't do anything about it. May I also suggest that Mr. Levine invest in a morning show prep service that will give Shawn and Robin ideas for morning show bits and topics.

Great. Finally someone actually offers some advice instead of putdowns.
I agree here. If there is a big enough problem, the solution would be to fix the problem instead of bringing in a new (or someone else's) problem.

 

[nmoore6676]

Everyone is saying that Hispanics don't listen to country but when I listen to KKGO and they announce the winners of tickets or whatever something like one in three seem to have Spanish surnames, interesting!

It appears to me based on comments here that the ratings for KZLA and KKGO seem to be proportionate to the number of people in the market disposed to listen to country music, even accepting that they are all white and no other ethnicities are tuned in.

The reason that Saul Levine chose to go country was in his words due to the loss of big ticket advertisers who had been supporting the Classical format on KMZT. He also stated that he would be happy with what KZLA was doing in ratings and revenue so he isn't beholden to a corporate board of directors as Mt. Wilson is essentially his to do with as he sees fit. I always felt that the original placement on AM was a temporary measure as I assumed he had some obligation to maintain the classical format due to advertising and promotional considerations. He flipped once those had been met and he tried to appease listeners by using the AM signal but it wasn't a wise decision due to the limited dynamic range and frequency response of AM radio.

A lot of people here are bagging on Shawn Parr and I don't understand why. He has been on country format stations beginning with KIKF in 1988. If he doesn't know country by now he never will. I think the features and topics on his show are comparable to other similar shows that I have sampled in other markets. I think on most shows now except small markets the show prep is the responsibility of the producers. I suppose that the argument could be made that his comments are self centered and sometimes the interviews are too much Shawn and too little guest, but his interaction with Robin seems OK to me and they have worked together before. I don't think they're Carolla and Bonaduce. As to his energy level, I think a morning show is to get you up and moving.

My question to you all would be, who would you want in his slot instead if the choice were your's?

As to the "live callers" (they have not been for more years than I care to remember) maybe they needed the phone system for Michael Jackson. I'm just sayin'.

1. I don't think people are saying no hispanics listen to country. What I'm saying is the gross (a general whole) listen to the spanish stations. It's the reason every form of entertainment is trying to get a piece of it.

2. The only other country station I can get is KFRG and if I compare the two morning shows I'll get Shawn and Robin's upbeat attitudes and a lot of music or I'll get KFRG's dracula-laughing, constant traffic reports, skits, and a little music. Every time I'll choose KKGO's show because that is what I like.

3. As for who else I could see at KKGO in the mornings? Well, ... maybe whoever was on pirate radio.

I meant my comment about Hispanics more for David Eduardo than you hillbillyRockstar as he seems to assume that anyone with a Spanish surname is never tuned to country. In my experience based on people I see in traffic who see fit to share their radio listening preferences with the world, young Hispanics as in teen to young adult do not listen to Spanish language radio but are listening to the same music that others in their age group, not country . The guys with the lawnmowers in the back of the trucks have on the Spanish language stations.

What burns me is that the big corporate stations seem to be trying to attract the same type of listeners which I am not even sure how they know who those people are. Sometimes it looks like a chicken and egg question in that do they promote a certain type of music and more or less force listening or do they look for music that is already popular. In the "old" days I though the latter, today I'm not so sure.

If there are a significant audience group listening to anything, even polka hits, there should be an outlet for them especially where there are so many receivable signals. By basing the programming decisions solely on numbers from a questionable system. Yes I said questionable because I nor any of my friends or acquaintances have ever had an Arbitron diary, ever in my life. I know some of the "wiser" people are going to say, so what. Well I in my experience of life, now in the middle of my third score of years, have lived in different areas, went to several colleges and universities and had different jobs in a fair number of related but varied fields. I have because of jobs been acquainted with what what would be a fair cross section of humanity so if none of these people are being surveyed, how valid can that survey be?

I listen to music radio for what I like in music, so at present I'm limited to KKGO and KCBS-FM and to honest there have been in my life maybe only a couple of hosts (DJs) that so annoyed me that I turned off because of them. Of course there are a few, like Frazer Smith that I would have stuck with if he had been playing Bavarian Polka Music. I am not saying that Shawn Parr is the best, but he is far from the worst, I've never tunes out during his show because of him. I listen to a variety of radio on the net and traveling and the "innuendo" that some here find inappropriate seems to one degree or another fairly common.

Is Todd Baker better? I would say yes. As to Robin vs Nora, I don't have an opinion but remember they are employed by Metro Traffic although I suppose the station has a final say. Maybe they would be better if they were all given cute amphibian names and croaked a lot, "just sayin'".

In any event I am grateful to Saul Levine for putting on country and I will continue to listen until he flips the station to Macedonain Bagpipe Music.

 

[ceejay]

nmoore6676 said:

In any event I am grateful to Saul Levine for putting on country and I will continue to listen until he flips the station to Macedonain Bagpipe Music.

Gasp! You said the F word and Saul Levine in the same sentence....... please don't do that. I'm having flashbacks, now!

 

[davideduardo]

I meant my comment about Hispanics more for David Eduardo than you hillbillyRockstar as he seems to assume that anyone with a Spanish surname is never tuned to country.

There are several cases that create this illusion of listening to country by Hispanics. First, in places like Texas where Hispanics were there first, there are many 5th generation and beyond Hispanics who are basically no different than anyone else in the general market. There are fewer of those in LA. Then there are many, many persons with Hispanic surnames through marriage, in this generation or earlier ones. I know plenty of non-Hispanic Hernandez' and Garcia's. Third, and the biggest one, is ascription by Arbitron... where, when a diary entry could indicate more than one station, it is credited by a random-number based formula that makes Hispanics listeners to very non-Hispanic formats or non-Hispanics listeners to Spanish langauge formats. The real share of country listening by KZLA or KKGO is less than 4%, taking all these factors out.

In my experience based on people I see in traffic who see fit to share their radio listening preferences with the world, young Hispanics as in teen to young adult do not listen to Spanish language radio but are listening to the same music that others in their age group, not country . The guys with the lawnmowers in the back of the trucks have on the Spanish language stations.

And they guy buying the new Lexus does too, if he grew up in Mexico or elsewhere in Latin Ameirca... or was raised in a home where Spanish was the dominant language. Often, those raised here of Hispanic heritage listen to both English and Spanish radio. Lexus, used as an example, has an Hispanic ad agency because such a large percentage of total sales is to Hispanics.

What burns me is that the big corporate stations seem to be trying to attract the same type of listeners which I am not even sure how they know who those people are. Sometimes it looks like a chicken and egg question in that do they promote a certain type of music and more or less force listening or do they look for music that is already popular. In the "old" days I though the latter, today I'm not so sure.

All stations of significance in LA do listener level research, and play and do what the listeners say.

If there are a significant audience group listening to anything, even polka hits, there should be an outlet for them especially where there are so many receivable signals. By basing the programming decisions solely on numbers from a questionable system.

The fact that all ratings based buys (a huge percentage in LA) are based on Arbitron means that it is used, whether someoene thinks it is bad or not. The fact is, it is not bad and the results can be replicated by small telephone surveys, in fact. Replication is the proof of validity in research.

Yes I said questionable because I nor any of my friends or acquaintances have ever had an Arbitron diary, ever in my life.

So? It's a random probablility sample. You use as few people as possible to get the desired margin of error that ad buyers will accept. This means each person has a probability of being asked to be in the survey about onece every 80 or so years.

I know some of the "wiser" people are going to say, so what. Well I in my experience of life, now in the middle of my third score of years, have lived in different areas, went to several colleges and universities and had different jobs in a fair number of related but varied fields. I have because of jobs been acquainted with what what would be a fair cross section of humanity so if none of these people are being surveyed, how valid can that survey be?

A survey is used vs. a Census because the cost of a census would be greater than the billing of all LA stations. So we use a statistical sample, as small as possible, that yields the correct results. If the sample is proportional, it does not have to be large.

 

[briancraig]

I know I've asked this before but I still don't quite get it. I've heard that in some markets like Albuquerque or San Antonio, the percentage of listeners to the country stations who are Hispanic is 50 percent if not more.

In the McAllen/Brownsville market, the country station is number 2 in the ratings and the percentage of the whole market that is Hispanic is 90 percent. They would have to have mainly Hispanic listeners.

How can you make a blanket statement that Hispanics don't like country?

 

[davideduardo]

I know I've asked this before but I still don't quite get it. I've heard that in some markets like Albuquerque or San Antonio, the percentage of listeners to the country stations who are Hispanic is 50 percent if not more.

In the McAllen/Brownsville market, the country station is number 2 in the ratings and the percentage of the whole market that is Hispanic is 90 percent. They would have to have mainly Hispanic listeners.

How can you make a blanket statement that Hispanics don't like country?

Read my prior post again. I spoecifically mention that in markets where Hispanics arrived first, there is a significant number of 4th, 5th generation and beyond, who behave and have media usage musch like the "other" group in Aribtron. In Alubuquerque, less than 20% of the Hispanics are Spanish dominant; in la 65% are Spanish dominant and another 20% are bilingual.

An example of Albuquerque, anecdotal in anture, tells the story. I had a friend in Ecuador in the 60's who was a Peace Corps volunteer named Carole Olguin. She spoke no Spanish, and I asked first why her name was spelled without an "H" at the beginning. She answered that the spelling was the 2old way" dating back to the 1400's and 1500's in Spain. And why did she not speak Spanish? Oh, nobody in the family has spoken Spanish since about 1860. How long has the family been in New Mexico? Since around 1600 when they got a land grant.

In places like San Antonio, the Valley and ABQ, there is a sizable long ago assimilated group. In LA, there is no such thing.... the fully assimilated community is overwhelmed in size by the first and second generation Hispanics who, except for second generation youth, are predominantly users of Spanish language medis.

And the discussion here is about an LA station, not one in McAllen or El Paso or Albuquerque or San Antonio.

 

[nmoore6676]

There are several cases that create this illusion of listening to country by Hispanics. First, in places like Texas where Hispanics were there first, there are many 5th generation and beyond Hispanics who are basically no different than anyone else in the general market. There are fewer of those in LA. Then there are many, many persons with Hispanic surnames through marriage, in this generation or earlier ones. I know plenty of non-Hispanic Hernandez' and Garcia's. Third, and the biggest one, is ascription by Arbitron... where, when a diary entry could indicate more than one station, it is credited by a random-number based formula that makes Hispanics listeners to very non-Hispanic formats or non-Hispanics listeners to Spanish langauge formats. The real share of country listening by KZLA or KKGO is less than 4%, taking all these factors out.

I know people who are brown skinned Hispanics that listen to country and other music not played on the so called Hispanic Stations. I also know a Jewish Lady who was raised in Ecuador and listens to "Recuerdo". You can not make any assumptions based on ethnicity except that recent arrivals from other areas will tend to prefer that with which they are familiar thus making the play lists for KBUE, KLAX, etc. It also accounts for the rise of the Bakersfield Sound of Country music which grew out of the settlers who moved in from Oklahoma during the dust bowl years.

And they guy buying the new Lexus does too, if he grew up in Mexico or elsewhere in Latin Ameirca... or was raised in a home where Spanish was the dominant language. Often, those raised here of Hispanic heritage listen to both English and Spanish radio. Lexus, used as an example, has an Hispanic ad agency because such a large percentage of total sales is to Hispanics.

Not many Lexus drivers in my neighborhood are driving by with the radio blaring for all to hear so I have to give you that one. My problem is not what people listen to but the assumption that if a large number are then I must too. Last time I checked we still had a democracy allowing freedom of expression and by inference musical tastes as well.

All stations of significance in LA do listener level research, and play and do what the listeners say.

The fact that all ratings based buys (a huge percentage in LA) are based on Arbitron means that it is used, whether someoene thinks it is bad or not. The fact is, it is not bad and the results can be replicated by small telephone surveys, in fact. Replication is the proof of validity in research.

I have received those phone surveys, at work and at home. When they verify my age and other info they hang up so I basically was not surveyed. My point was that if they were taking a sample that at some point somewhere somebody in my sphere would have been a member of the group and I can say that never has anyone I knew been sampled.

By the way I took a series of mathematical analysis and statistics courses long ago at Ohio State and I get how the process works and how the data is "verified", but giving my statements above I still question the selection process and in that I can not be persuaded otherwise. I can actually construct a perfectly verifiable statistical analysis to prove whatever you want me to prove. The political polls we see prove that and there are a considerable body of scientists that would argue against the data proving (or disproving) Global Warming. So you should understand my skepticism when someone waves a spreadsheet in my face to justify anything.

Bottom line is that big corporate radio will do what they see as the best bet to prop up the bottom line, thus the turmoil at CC in Burbank and all over. So I accept that Mount Wilson can and will keep country even though it can never be in the top ten in this market. The question is how long and Saul Levine can not live forever or he may choose to cash out and retire. Will he stick with it as long as the Classical and Jazz before that? Who knows, it's a different world with different dynamics and then there is the issue I just mentioned.

 

[davideduardo]

I know people who are brown skinned Hispanics that listen to country and other music not played on the so called Hispanic Stations.

We all have anecdotal exp0erience to disprove nearly everything short of the sun rising every morning.

Many middle and upper class Latin Americans listened to non-Spanish language music in Latin America. A good 10% to 20% of the stations in larger markets play "Amercanc" music ranging from hard rock to alternative to CHR to AC oldies (Air Supply, anyone?). So if they come to the US (and most don't) they will listen to the same kind of music here.

I also know a Jewish Lady who was raised in Ecuador and listens to "Recuerdo".

Tell here, "Thanks" from the Recuerdo staff. I had a PM drive jock in Ecuador whose last name was Rosenfeld. Like you "Jewish lady form Ecuador" he was Hispanic per the US definition. What is more odd is that Recuerdo plays mostly music that was never played in Ecuador.

[/quote] You can not make any assumptions based on ethnicity except that recent arrivals from other areas will tend to prefer that with which they are familiar thus making the play lists for KBUE, KLAX, etc. [/quote]

Music taste is forned in early to mid adolesence. A person raised in rural Mexico will have the music styles he bonded with as the predominant styles they like the rest of their life. Similarly, a second generation Hispanic rasied in an Hispanic home where only Spanish is spoken will learn the music of the family, as well as the music peers form school and the neighborhood play. So they may listen to part Englsih and part Spanish music.

If the person is form urban Mexico or large cities of Central America, they may not liesten or like KLAX, KBUE, KSCA or Recuerdo. They may like KLVE or KSSE instead, as that is the music of their youth.

I grew up in those years listening to Spanish pop / CHR and tropical music and the first station I programmed, while still a teen, played some US Top 40, too. So my iPod has Spanish pop from 5 decades, tropical and a smattering of 60'ss and 70's US oldies. On the other hand, no matter how assimilated I am, I will not start likeing Whitesnake or System of a Down, which sound like noise to me.

I have received those phone surveys, at work and at home. When they verify my age and other info they hang up so I basically was not surveyed.

That sounds like call out music research. If you are not in the target age and a steady listener to the station, it does no good to have you score songs since you would likely not know them. The idea of callout is not to recruit new listeners or, in fact, to change anything about the station. It is intended to confirm the play frequency of current and recurrent songs only. If you don't listen to the responsible station a lot, they don't want your opinion as it would be both invalid and useless.

Format searches are often started off with half hour to 35 minute interviews with several hundred or more listeners in a target age; totally open ended projects would be 18-54 in focus. I can describe a format search done in a market of 17 million where a failing station was subject for a new format. We selected 17 different kinds of music for the first project, and did "hook tapes" of representative songs that were not crossovers on each kind. As each was played to the respondent, we asked how much they liked it on a consistent scale, how much they would listen to it on the radio, if any staiton played that music, how good a job of playing it they did, and whow much the listenening to that station would decrease if a new station played ontly that music.

Cross tabbing of the results showed the formats with the most potential that were not served by any staiton well. A second studey narrowed down the prime candidates by dubdividing the broad hook tapes. Finally, after the format was determined, a music test was done where over 1500 songs were scored by a group of persons. The resultant playlist, combined with good jocks and promotion, propelled the station to #1 in less than a month. 8 years later, it is still #1.

If you look at it, out of a market of 17 million, less than 500 were in phase one. 200 were in phase 2, and just over a hundred in pahse 3. Or 800 interviews out of 17 million people were more than enough to knock off 40 other radio stations.

My point was that if they were taking a sample that at some point somewhere somebody in my sphere would have been a member of the group and I can say that never has anyone I knew been sampled.

That is not unusual. For ongoing radio research, unless you are a listener you will be excluded. For format searches, probably done one time a year by someone in LA, about one person per 100,000 will be sampled. For Arbitron, maybe 100,000 a year are contacted and invited to particpate... only 30,000 actually finish the cycle. Means about 100 years between contacts for a 12+ population of just over 10 million.

By the way I took a series of mathematical analysis and statistics courses long ago at Ohio State and I get how the process works and how the data is "verified", but giving my statements above I still question the selection process and in that I can not be persuaded otherwise. I can actually construct a perfectly verifiable statistical analysis to prove whatever you want me to prove. The political polls we see prove that and there are a considerable body of scientists that would argue against the data proving (or disproving) Global Warming. So you should understand my skepticism when someone waves a spreadsheet in my face to justify anything.

Political polls attempt to predict a winner and a loser. Radio ratings attempt to quantify the number of listeners per station to determine ad costs. In a political poll, a margin of error of 1% can make the results wrong. In a radio rating, a margin of error of 3% to 5% makes very little difference, as we are trying to set broad price ranges for stations, not picking a win, place and show.

In LA, stations that are in the top 25 positions make lots of money. Many of the non-rated or low rated niche players, like KTYM and KVNR make scads of money. The horse race has one winner. Radio has dozens.

 

[nmoore6676]

I actually know a few people, Hispanic and not, including myself, who listen to Recuerdo.

My whole and central point is that basing programming choices solely on ratings without some way of knowing what the population wants to hear. The ratings if constructed from statistically accurate samplings can reflect tastes, but when you try to turn it around to figure the format for a broadcaster it can be like a snake eating its own tail.

The more radio becomes a big business with absentee ownership I see the danger of losing total touch with communities and public tastes once the statisticians take control.

Anyway David, thanks for your thoughtful elucidation of this issue, very instructive.

 

[Rebafan]

I believe that KKGO Go Country 105 could be at 2+ but they are shooting themselves in the foot continually and it is annoying ... The format is GREAT... a mixture of the classic and current country. It is a format that gives new country fans the "pop" country they want, and it is a step above mainstream country alone because it plays songs from the 70's through today.
As I look at the ratings I have to look at the things they are doing at the station... getting rid of radio personalities that have a LARGE following... cutting the listers out of being interactive with the station... NOT advertising... Talking negatively about artists on the air (in jest yet... but who knows how the artists or their reps would take it should they read the message boards and see how fans talk of these not so funny digs at the artists)

There is no one saying to them... this is working... this isn't working... so many people just say good job, keep it up, our ratings only slipped a .1 or .2 no worries! What station does not have 24/7 streaming?!?
There is SO much more that station can do that would be positive ... Sad to see it seems like all the work of the fans to get country music back in LA and the OC is being tossed away.

The station has left it to the fans to get the word out about the station and then they continually do things that can have a negative effect on how the fans view the station ie getting rid of Whitney...not taking live callers, etc.
It isn't JUST about Shawn Parr and the morning show, I do not listen to his show because I do not care for it, but he has a fan base that enjoy him and Robin and everyone is entitled to their likes and dislikes.
This post from me is about the no talking to listeners on air, No Whitney and other things I have written about here... I feel that the station has become a station that is no longer listener friendly...Do I want to see the station flip... NO... BUT I fear that if the station does not begin to make positive changes in the way it comes across on the air and does not begin to advertise instead of having the fans do all the work the station will flip. As someone so eloquently stated before if a person has no investment in a station... it makes it easier to flip the station.

NO ONE is getting paid to spread the word for them and yet so many of the fans do... Harper's Bar and Grille in Northridge was the first to invest in GO Country T-shirts that promoted the bar and the station. Harper's was an advertiser on the station and the T-shirts were NOT paid for by the station, it was something the bar did to promote KKGO and spread the word. They gave the shirts out for free for just under 4 months and then began charging for them, but this was HARPER'S promoting the station....Fans make huge signs for concerts have tailgate parties, dress up in red yellow and black with the KKGO logo on hats and homemade shirts etc, they tell people about the station, promote the station, and SUPPORT IT... Yet we see NOTHING that KKGO has done for itself to get the word out!
I often feel as if the station is using the fans because they know that the fans don't want to lose the station or genre as they did when KZLA flipped and the fans will do ANYTHING to keep it, they will adapt a this station can do no wrong attitude and praise it for every little thing that is done ... but most of all the fans have been willing to spend a great deal of money to advertise, promote and support the station without payment, gratitude or even being able to be heard on the air from time to time...

How can the ratings go up if the station isn't listener friendly... and NOT just to people who support, promote and listen out of fear that they will lose this country station as they did KZLA?

 

[Rebafan]

DavidEduardo said earlier "To get into the 2-share range of ratings, you need to cume over a half-million, and a three share needs about a million." How do you find out a stations cume.... how do you know what airshift has the best ratings at a station?


I would think IF there is a shift (during the weekdays since KKGO does not stream on weekends or after 7PM) that has really low ratings then it would bring down the overall ratings of the station and in that case the show or shows with really low cume ratings (not sure if that is what it is called) should be revamped either with a new radio personality or a new structure to the shift.

Can ONLY people advertising with the station or that are a part of the station itself get this information or is it public information?
IF advertisers and employees of the station can get it, would the radio personalities that have access to it and may have falling numbers not wish to find a way to restructure etc in order to boost that shows rating and therefore assist the station itself in the ratings?

You may have told me this in a past thread, but perhaps I am not quick to remember or I may have missed it somewhere along the way.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

If Mr. Levine wants to boost the ratings @ KKGO, he's going to have to spend money on advertising, and not the microscopic amount of money he's spent on those underwhelming Country Radio 105 FM that I've seen on the sides of those buses of the city of Santa Monica.

David---Thanks for the explanation regarding the difference in the composition of country music listeners in LA vs. Albuquerque, San Antonio, and other assorted cities in Texas & elsewhere.

Would those remarks related to generations also apply to markets where country radio stations are consistently either #1 in the market or consistently in the top five or ten stations in their respective markets?

Some of the stations I had in mind would include KFRG/Riverside, KSON/San Diego, KUZZ/Bakersfield, KNCI/Sacramento, KWNR/Las Vegas, KSKS/Fresno, KHAY/Oxnard-Simi Valley, KNIX/Phoenix, KMLE/Phoenix, KPLM/Palm Springs, and last but not least, longtime market leader KIIM/Tucson.

 

[davideduardo]

DavidEduardo said earlier "To get into the 2-share range of ratings, you need to cume over a half-million, and a three share needs about a million." How do you find out a stations cume.... how do you know what airshift has the best ratings at a station?

The Arbitron audience estimates arrive at stations in the form of a computer database, where literally thousands of reports can be created for different ages, dayparts, sets of hours, income level, ethnicity, etc. This information can generally not be published, and is to be used by stations to present their services to advertisers only and for internal purposes.

I would think IF there is a shift (during the weekdays since KKGO does not stream on weekends or after 7PM) that has really low ratings then it would bring down the overall ratings of the station and in that case the show or shows with really low cume ratings (not sure if that is what it is called) should be revamped either with a new radio personality or a new structure to the shift.

I am not sure I understand the streaming part; streamed Internet listening does not count to increase KKGO's listening. The internet stream is considered a separate radio station.

In each daypart, the level of radio listening is different. The numbers published are shares, not ratings. A share is a percentage of those listening to radio and this is why a 10 share at night (7 Mid) represents fewer people than a 3 share in mornings. Each daypart contributes to total 6 to midnight shares, but not proportionally.

Can ONLY people advertising with the station or that are a part of the station itself get this information or is it public information?

It is copyright and proprietary.

IF advertisers and employees of the station can get it, would the radio personalities that have access to it and may have falling numbers not wish to find a way to restructure etc in order to boost that shows rating and therefore assist the station itself in the ratings?

Most air personalities or jocks do not have the ability to change the structure or style of a show. They are hired to do what the Program Director tells them to do in the manner that management has determined is best for the station.

 

[Rebafan]

THANK YOU so much, I know you probably gave me this information before and I missed it because I wasn't spending alot of time on these boards, I really appreciate your explanations on how this all works.

 

[LAFMDJ]

It is possible for GO Country to get ratings in LA. All that is needed is to increase the TSL. For every quarter hour of listening it will increase their share by .2

The problem is a very low TSL for a Country station.

Their signal is large enough to reach the Country fans in the 5 counties. They have one of thee best FM signals in So. Cal. It's plain and simple....Bad station, bad programming!

Easy Fix....

1) Correct the programming...Music, Positioning, Personalities, Contests, Events, Remotes...
2) Build the TSL...
3) Contest and do NTR events for Cume growth!!!

Easy Money!

 

[nmoore6676]

It is possible for GO Country to get ratings in LA. All that is needed is to increase the TSL. For every quarter hour of listening it will increase their share by .2

The problem is a very low TSL for a Country station.

Their signal is large enough to reach the Country fans in the 5 counties. They have one of thee best FM
signals in So. Cal. It's plain and simple....Bad station, bad programming!

Easy Fix....

1) Correct the programming...Music, Positioning, Personalities, Contests, Events, Remotes...
2) Build the TSL...
3) Contest and do NTR events for Cume growth!!!

Easy Money!

I have looked at the predicted coverage for KKGO based upon FCC data and you are right about the number of counties but they have some competition from longer established country stations in KHAY and KFRG. One thing about country fans is that they are likely to be creatures of habit which caused a lot of the outcry about the loss of KZLA. As bad as it was the local fans still tuned in. I myself though listened to online streaming stations whenever I was near enough to a computer.

In other comments on other threads here about LA country radio it has been said that KSON in San Diego is better and that may be slightly true, however I could not say that KKGO is horrible. Now back to the FCC data the former KZLA covers most of the same territory as KKGO except they seem to not penetrate as much toward Lancaster / Palmdale.

My point being that had they been doing what you suggest (and they had plenty of time to do so) they should not have seen fit to flip formate because they were as I recall doing somewhat better in numbers than KKGO now. It appears that the "Movin'" format is not much better than KKGO and not where KZLA was. I'd like to give Mt. Wilson FM some credit for being there when it was needed.

I suppose they could do more promotions and events but it seems to me that going along they are adding more and more. As for contests those are usually funded by advertisers and so they would have to find some willing to foot the bills for big time give aways. In other words you have to crawl before you walk. Giving away tickets to concerts is no small deal looking at the prices for live events. It surely beats the CD's they gave away at first.

While Saul Levine is prone to flip his AM stations as he has often done in the past his record on the FM side has been to longevity. Since the 1959 sign on there have been three music formats on 105.1. From 1959 to 1989 as Jazz, then 1989 to 2007 as Classical, now Country. So maybe baring unforeseen circumstances we could have twenty to thirty years as country. Should be enough time to fine tune and get the most bang for his buck. I don't think he expects a KISS, KLVE or KFI level of ratings, he was only expecting ,in his own words, the chunk of the audience that KZLA had, which looked better than where Classical was going to get him.

I think the personalities are fine, some people on here don't like Shawn Paar, but I'm OK with him (don't mention Peter Tilden, puleez!). Maybe they need a little stronger person for Mid Days (like Jim Duncan perhaps?), but I think the rest the rest are great.

 

[ceejay]

Hummmmm..... I loved Peter Tilden in the morning. He always started my day with laughter and I missed him terribly after Black Thursday..... the laughter was gone.

Didn't miss the overplayed Pop Country, though. I seriously wanted my Country Music back..... it was gone long before the Evil E flipped KZLA!

 

[davideduardo]

The problem is a very low TSL for a Country station.

But it has very high TSL for an LA station. Only talkers like KFI, KABC, and KTLK, Spanish language stations like KLVE and KSCA and The Wave beat it, in fact. It has better TSL than the AC's, than KRTH, etc., etc. Increasing TSL in a competitive, fragmented, market is a difficult task.

Their signal is large enough to reach the Country fans in the 5 counties. They have one of thee best FM signals in So. Cal. It's plain and simple....Bad station, bad programming!

The LA market has only two counties, and if KKGO gets into Riverside, Ventura or San Bernardino counties, it is up against strong local competition in each from local players with even better signals.

The issue is not programming, it is available audience. There is just not enought to sustain a country station in LA at over mid-one's level.

Easy Fix....

1) Correct the programming...Music, Positioning, Personalities, Contests, Events, Remotes...
2) Build the TSL...
3) Contest and do NTR events for Cume growth!!!

Contests do not buiild cume unless promoted in other media. Cume is built by outside promotion, from word of mouth to TV. TSL is built by not doing negatives.

NTR is nearly dead, and NTR is neither a cume nor a TSL driver... it is a revenue driver.

Maybe the station could be a little better, but in general, it is doing an OK job of being the markets sole country operation given the knowledge that it is going to be a very low share proposition no matter what they do. Remember, the owner is frugal and he no doubt knows that the share potential is very limited and spending like a 4 share station for a 1 share format is not wise.

 

[nmoore6676]

Hummmmm..... I loved Peter Tilden in the morning. He always started my day with laughter and I missed him terribly after Black Thursday..... the laughter was gone.

Didn't miss the overplayed Pop Country, though. I seriously wanted my Country Music back..... it was gone long before the Evil E flipped KZLA!

What you want is not likely to happen in LA but there are a variety of country stations that stream on the web that play Classic Country and the modern artists that record in the classic tradition. In my opinion KKGO with a 2000+ playlist beats the 200 song playlist of KZLA. I will admit that lately they have gotten repetitive on a few songs unlike how they began where you could listen nearly all day and not hear the same songs twice.

Start here if you want to find something else, I did in the KZLA days: http://www.usliveradio.com/country.html