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KKOB proposes downgrade

Mark Roberts

Mark Roberts

Crossposted from the New Mexico board for those of you who may be interested.

KKOB is giving up on its site on the north side of Albuquerque after the balloon crash that took down its main tower last year. It has filed for a CP to diplex* with co-owned KTBL southwest of Albuquerque. Under the proposal, while KKOB will continue with 50 kw daytime non-directional, it will do so from an antenna height of 53.5° rather than the 180° of the former tower.

Nighttime power would go down to 5 kw, directional to the southwest. The Santa Fe synchronous booster apparently will remain. I would anticipate that both daytime and nighttime coverage would be reduced from what they were before the previous KKOB tower was destroyed. I suspect that daytime coverage would be reduced even from the present temporary operation using the 90° tower that had been used only at night.

It's worth noting that KKOB has simulcasted on FM for five years.

While not entirely surprising that KKOB would choose to downgrade instead of rebuild, given today's economic circumstances for radio, it's still sad to see such a historic facility end up diminished.

Full details: Draft Copy « Licensing and Management System « FCC

* = technically, triplexing, since KOAZ is also on the KTBL array.
 
In your far more educated opinion than mine, what will be the real-world impact of the decreased height on their daytime signal? I have never been to that part of the country, but I am curious as to how much that will trim their coverage, etc.
 
schmave said:
In your far more educated opinion than mine, what will be the real-world impact of the decreased height on their daytime signal? I have never been to that part of the country, but I am curious as to how much that will trim their coverage, etc.
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The only useful signal these days is that inside the ratings survey area. Advertisers rarely care about or spend more for distant coverage... they will use local stations in each area for that.

And, as I said in another thread, the main service of K(K)OB is the FM. The AM likely provides little or none of the measured listening today.
 
schmave said:
In your far more educated opinion than mine, what will be the real-world impact of the decreased height on their daytime signal? I have never been to that part of the country, but I am curious as to how much that will trim their coverage, etc.
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That area of New Mexico is thinly populated outside the metro centers of Albuquerque and Santa Fe. For nighttime coverage, my belief is that reception anywhere north of Albuquerque will be reduced. Santa Fe, which is northeast of Albuquerque, is covered by the synchronous booster. While the daytime signal currently is listenable in Santa Fe, the combination of a less-well-matched antenna and greater distance from the new site will probably make reception more difficult. In 2023, the only reliable Albuquerque AM signals in Santa Fe were KNML (610) and KKOB (770). KNML was actually rather faint. I would expect KKOB to become more like KNML once the new site is put into service.

Even though KKOB has an FM simulcast from Sandia Crest, and the predicted coverage should indicate good reception in Santa Fe, the reality is more complex. There is a ridge southwest of the city (La Bajada) that can create a reception shadow. In some parts of Santa Fe, signals from the Crest can be weak and subject to multipath. The actual effects vary from station to station.

(Edit: "creat"? Fixed that.)
 
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Mark Roberts said:
Even though KKOB has an FM simulcast from Sandia Creat, and the predicted coverage should indicate good reception in Santa Fe, the reality is more complex. There is a ridge southwest of the city (La Bajada) that can create a reception shadow. In some parts of Santa Fe, signals from the Crest can be weak and subject to multipath. The actual effects vary from station to station.
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You just explained precisely why the current KRKE translator on Sandia (K229CL) has a directional antenna. In the original experiment ten years ago, we were on the same translator (K233CG) that KKOB is on now. But we could do nothing about it as the translator was then owned by EMF and did not change hands until teh year after the experiment.

Since there is no point in trying to serve Santa Fe, when Don bought the 93.7 translator he kept it directional, with only a minor adjustment to keep it in AM 1100's primary contour. That, of course, concentrates those 250 watts into a smaller footprint.
 
Chances may be getting higher to get WABC from the West Coast again. But KATL MT might be the one in the way...
 
crainbebo said:
Chances may be getting higher to get WABC from the West Coast again. But KATL MT might be the one in the way...
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The first thing I thought of was hearing WABC too but then there's also KCBC from near the Bay Area which often can be heard here on top of KKOB.

The first time I ever visited California was back in 1975 and at my brother's place in Fairfield, I wanted to listen for WABC nulling out KOB.

There was definitely something in the background but way too weak to ID and it also could have been the 770 from Seattle.

The only NYC station I've ever heard in all my visits to California was WCBS after KRVN would sign off late at night back in the day.

Back then, 660 had no stations on the air at night to interfere with hearing WNBC but for some reason I never them in California after many attempts.
 
gar hi said:
The first thing I thought of was hearing WABC too but then there's also KCBC from near the Bay Area which often can be heard here on top of KKOB.

The first time I ever visited California was back in 1975 and at my brother's place in Fairfield, I wanted to listen for WABC nulling out KOB.
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Before last year's balloon crash, KKOB was strong at night in Paso Robles (in the Central Coast area of California). No presence of KCBC Manteca.
 
Here in 'Anthracite Country' of NE Pennsylvania,' there have been jettisoning of AM signals for at least 20 years. (One of the first was even an unlikely one -- regional fulltimer WHLM Bloomsburg, on the impossible-to-disregard 550 AM. Well, I suppose 'almost' impossible to disregard 550. Four towers, too, gone. Their FM, also put on by owner Harry L. McGee, went merrily on for a while as a stanadlone Country.)
It's been over a year now, but right down the street west from here is the 5-stick AM site of what had been Schuylkill County's largest-signalled AM station (full-service directional regional WPPA 1360, 5000 w day and 500 w nights until they put on a new FM). Nowadays, while the FM does its Class D thing, the AM is OMNI all the time. It'a a reduced 3000 watts day and 22 (22!) watts at night. In certain 'southern' spots in the county, it is no longer even the loudest AM signal; WEEU Reading, one county south, is.
In any case, it was one sign of erosion when smaller stations -- I count 6 on AM -- are now gone from the county dial. But when the huge-signalled things like KDWN, KKOB, KAAY, WPTR et al tightening the belt notches, though .....
 
KOB had fought WABC for years to have a 50,000 watt day and night signal. As a Class I-A in those days, WABC would have expected nobody else running 50,000 watts at night in the 48 contiguous states. But KOB's lawyers prevailed.

If you look at a Broadcasting Yearbook from the 1970s or earlier, all the I-As either had their frequencies to themselves at night or only had a few co-channel stations, 1000 miles away or more at a minimal power. When you go to the section with each AM frequency, it was amazing to see 1200 WOAI San Antonio with no other stations at all, none, in the United States. Frequencies like 1230 or 1450 had scores of stations but WOAI was all by itself, even in the daytime, under 1200 kHz.

770 kHz had seven stations on its list. In addition to WABC, KOB, and a station in Guam, they were all daytimers, KUOM Minneapolis, WEW St. Louis, KXA in Seattle. (Yes, even Seattle went off the air at night, 3000 miles from New York and 1100 miles from Albuquerque.) But there was KOB Albuquerque with 50,000 watts DA (directional antenna).
 
Gregg. said:
KOB had fought WABC for years to have a 50,000 watt day and night signal. As a Class I-A in those days, WABC would have expected nobody else running 50,000 watts at night in the 48 contiguous states. But KOB's lawyers prevailed.

If you look at a Broadcasting Yearbook from the 1970s or earlier, all the I-As either had their frequencies to themselves at night or only had a few co-channel stations, 1000 miles away or more at a minimal power. When you go to the section with each AM frequency, it was amazing to see 1200 WOAI San Antonio with no other stations at all, none, in the United States. Frequencies like 1230 or 1450 had scores of stations but WOAI was all by itself, even in the daytime, under 1200 kHz.

770 kHz had seven stations on its list. In addition to WABC, KOB, and a station in Guam, they were all daytimers, KUOM Minneapolis, WEW St. Louis, KXA in Seattle. (Yes, even Seattle went off the air at night, 3000 miles from New York and 1100 miles from Albuquerque.) But there was KOB Albuquerque with 50,000 watts DA (directional antenna).
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You do know why (K)KOB landed on 770, don't you?

There's an entire book on KOB's history : https://www.worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Station-Albums/KOB-Goddard's-Magic-Mast-Book.pdf - I suggest you read it.
 
There was a DXer years ago that used to comment on Radio Discussions / Radio Info. He was in New York City during the 1965 blackout. WABC went dark, as did much of the Big Apple. And that as soon as WABC went poof, KOB Albuquerque was all alone. I find that kind of interesting - it was probably legit, but KOB would have still been in daylight in the 3:00 hour, MT.
 
We'd get nights and overnights like that back in NYC, near Kennedy Aiport in Queens. Clear to the West. Very rarely, though.
KSL would be gangbusters then. KOA atop the 1070-ish frequency of 850. Even KIMN Denver could be all alone some nights. Back in 1965 the dial was like that. When a large station was off, look out!
That'd've been an interesting story; that DXer in NYC right then and there. I wonder what kind of radio was used ... whereabouts in NYC's 300 square miles .... degree of sobriety involved ..... stuff like that.
 
KOB was not my first station from NM to DX from NE Ohio in the late 50's and early 60's... it was the "tiny" Top 40 station on 920, KQEO IIRC. Logged it and the old KELP in El Paso on 920, both 500 watts, fighting it out.

Later that night, I got another 500 watt Top 40 on 920...KDES in Palm Springs!
 
davideduardo said:
KOB was not my first station from NM to DX from NE Ohio in the late 50's and early 60's... it was the "tiny" Top 40 station on 920, KQEO IIRC. Logged it and the old KELP in El Paso on 920, both 500 watts, fighting it out.
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That would indeed have been KQEO. I don't recall what its nighttime pattern was like. Now KSVA, it's been a class D for decades, diplexed on the KRZY tower. Kind of a wimpy signal but adequate to cover most of the city, and it's now religious stuff with a limited audience anyway.

I don't remember much about its 1960s days, though I do remember the slogan: "K-Q-E-O, Channel 92". Already the literalist even in elementary school, I found that objectionable. "Radio stations don't have channel numbers!" I only knew about TV channel numbers at the time.

One of the notable KQEO DJs of the time, Bobby Box, may still be around. He pops up on Facebook from time to time.

Some snippets of KQEO, all short, from 1981-82, when it was an oldies station:

Brief segue, 1981:

KQEO.1981.05.26-1849-Brief.mp3

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Another brief segue, 1981:

KQEO.1981.05.26-Brief.mp3

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Promo for the KQEO sock hop, 1981:

KQEO.1981.05.26-SockHopPromo.mp3

drive.google.com drive.google.com

Rambling DJ, 1982:

KQEO.1982.04.28-1610-Brief.mp3

drive.google.com drive.google.com

News update, as promoted by aforesaid DJ, 1982:

KQEO.1982.04.28-1633-NewsHeadlines.mp3

drive.google.com drive.google.com

I've never found any airchecks of KQEO on the Top 40 sites. I suppose now that I've said that, someone will point out some that I missed. I hope so!
 


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