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KLOP-FM 88.1 Mhz CP for Class C Granted/Good rimshot into Sea-Tac area

Well, your friends at "K-Love" EMF finally received their 84,000 watt Construction Permit to operate a robot Class C station that should punch a nice signal into half of the Seattle-Tacoma Urbanized area. Funny thing, though. They received a waiver to broadcast from.......get this......Santa Rosa, California. What a crock of Sh......... In other words, it's just an 84,000 watt...yes.....you can form the words........Translator. And absolutely no local ownership.

Looks like the facility is maybe at Capitol Peak? South Mountain? It's contingent upon EMF's KSBC, Nile, WA. (NW of Yakima) facility moving from 88.1 to 88.3, which has been approved. Both apps were approved a few days ago, on December 19th, 2008.

Here's the CP: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/Auth_Files/1136995.pdf

and coverage: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1136995.html

Local FM stations to be hurt in this "move-in" will be KPLU and KCMS. KPLU has a 120 watt FM translator on 88.1 near Port Orchard serving West Seattle and Vashon island. That get's blown up as that translator will be required to be turned off.
KCMS will have a second Christian radio station in the market, though not local. Still, 88.1 KLOP will be problematic to KCMS in this highly competitive radio market.

Here's K-Love's website, "Positive and Encouraging" : http://www.klove.com/

My question to the board: How could the FCC allow an 84,000 watt translator? That's just wrong, very wrong.
 
FMSteve said:
Well, your friends at "K-Love" EMF finally received their 84,000 watt Construction Permit to operate a robot Class C station that should punch a nice signal into half of the Seattle-Tacoma Urbanized area. Funny thing, though. They received a waiver to broadcast from.......get this......Santa Rosa, California. What a crock of Sh......... In other words, it's just an 84,000 watt...yes.....you can form the words........Translator. And absolutely no local ownership.

Looks like the facility is maybe at Capitol Peak? South Mountain? It's contingent upon EMF's KSBC, Nile, WA. (NW of Yakima) facility moving from 88.1 to 88.3, which has been approved. Both apps were approved a few days ago, on December 19th, 2008.

Here's the CP: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/Auth_Files/1136995.pdf

and coverage: http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM1136995.html

Local FM stations to be hurt in this "move-in" will be KPLU and KCMS. KPLU has a 120 watt FM translator on 88.1 near Port Orchard serving West Seattle and Vashon island. That get's blown up as that translator will be required to be turned off.
KCMS will have a second Christian radio station in the market, though not local. Still, 88.1 KLOP will be problematic to KCMS in this highly competitive radio market.

Here's K-Love's website, "Positive and Encouraging" : http://www.klove.com/

My question to the board: How could the FCC allow an 84,000 watt translator? That's just wrong, very wrong.

"Technically", it's not a "translator". It has it's own call letters and supposedly, a local facility. At least on paper....

But I agree with you, enough is enough. Because these CSN/EMF/AFR stations aren't about education or they'd each be filled with beginning broadcasters. It's about hogging up as many non-commercial frequencies as possible to block (or at least discourage) any future community, college or public stations and using religion as the "education". In spite of the fact that all these areas are served by local religious broadcasters that do a fine job on their own.

I'm hoping we will finally get a FCC Chairman who will finally put a stop to this nonesense. Three organizations flooding a government office with reams of paperwork, most for translators that will simply never go on the air because of bad to incompetent data and creating problems for everyone else for approving the ones that do is not only a waste of time and taxpayer dollars. It's also a sign of abuse.
 
Bongwater said:
But I agree with you, enough is enough. Because these CSN/EMF/AFR stations aren't about education or they'd each be filled with beginning broadcasters. It's about hogging up as many non-commercial frequencies as possible to block (or at least discourage) any future community, college or public stations and using religion as the "education". In spite of the fact that all these areas are served by local religious broadcasters that do a fine job on their own.

I was hoping the Puget Sound was immune to that with so many strong, well-run community and educational stations in the "Ed band" of 88.1 to 91.9 FM. I guess I was wrong. :mad:
 
SeattleObserver said:
Bongwater said:
But I agree with you, enough is enough. Because these CSN/EMF/AFR stations aren't about education or they'd each be filled with beginning broadcasters. It's about hogging up as many non-commercial frequencies as possible to block (or at least discourage) any future community, college or public stations and using religion as the "education". In spite of the fact that all these areas are served by local religious broadcasters that do a fine job on their own.

I was hoping the Puget Sound was immune to that with so many strong, well-run community and educational stations in the "Ed band" of 88.1 to 91.9 FM. I guess I was wrong. :mad:

The Educational band should only be used by actual educational systems - ones that actually provide some form of education to the community at each of their stations. This includes volunteer run community stations and LPFMs. They teach the basics to the novice. And they teach good, the results are pretty damn good.

Putting a satellite fed transmitter up somewhere, provide no local content or services and in the Ed band no less, is not educational radio. At all. They're taking a loophole and raping the whole system with it and they need to be stopped.
 
Will be an interesting window...FCC already in the cross-hairs by Congress and after January 20th, some of the FCC rubber stamping MAY be changing. Not sure if that would affect decisions already approved or not...but it will be interesting to see if our friends on M-Street can actually READ an application instead of just processing it.
 
Here's what I'd like to remind the FCC staffers and the folks who read this board-

Translators were always meant for "fill-in" service, in areas where because of a terrain obstruction or other issue. Translators should therefore, never be used for charting new territory that goes far outside the coverage area of any primary station.

Perhaps if the FCC reviews it's own rules, they could correct this oversight and/or issue an amendment that simply states that a translator cannot be used outside the 54 Dbu contour of the primary station in which the signal orginates from-

Problem solved!
 
semoochie said:
Apparently, such rules do not apply to noncommercial stations. On top of that, a Class C is not a translator.

Very true.

You see radioplayer, what they use is a loophole in the rules that says non-commercial stations can use translators in areas beyond their normal coverage because basically of A) Interfering local stations B) Because of terrain and C) Where it matters (by public demand.)

CSN/AFR/EMF have interpreted these rules to imply that A) We can set up one full power, non-commercial station (like KLOP) to use it to B) Apply for MORE translators.

Not that there was a HUGE demand either.

These religious networks are basically milking what was intended for educational and public service into a pulpit for religious dogma. That is ABUSE. Because the rules did not intend it this way.

I'll give you an example: KPLU

KPLU is a Tacoma licensed station. It has been a full power jazz station and one of the very few of it's kind in the USA since 1984. While it is owned by Pacific Lutheran University, it does not preach religion. PLU's main focus is education and they're very good at it - I personally know a couple millionaires that went to PLU (in other courses.) KPLU has translators up and down Western Washington. Their main 88.5 signal can be heard, but not clearly in those areas where the translators come in. They are a valid use of radio translators. Not long ago, a Canadian station began operating on 88.5, so KPLU had to get another fully licensed station, KVIX on 89.3 to serve the Port Angeles and Victoria, BC areas where KPLU was being outblasted by the new Canadian station on 88.5

I can understand where this comes in. KPLU is a Puget Sound station - or one located in and serving the Puget Sound, the Strait of Juan de Fuca is technically a part of that.

A not-so-valid use of translators occurs when a non-commercial radio station that cannot be heard for THOUSANDS of miles away on it's main operating frequency decides on it's own that it needs as many "translators" as it can get.

So it applies for all these translators, mentioning in the app they're only going to rebroadcast KUOW, or KPLU, Or KNHC. And here's the bomb: If it's a non-commercial station you're planning to rebroadcast and even if you're just a third party, not even related to a forementioned station, you can STILL apply for one.

That's how EMF does it. They have plenty of toadies who also sign their names in place of EMF, but all with the same goal (I'll get to that in a minute.)

Then the translators come on. some with aforementioned stations in the first week, some straight from CSN/EMF altogether, usually the latter. All at the expense of LEGITIMATE public broadcasters who were not even notified of these so-called "translators" use or seek of actual CONSENT of their stations to rebroadcast their programming.

So to get around that, you set up a lone station with full license (albeit 1000% coming off the bird) and then set up all your "translators" around it. Voila! Instant mega network!

And it's all under the same rules and regulations that keep KPLU going. However, KPLU is coming from A) An educational institution. B) Provides local content and C) Although it does have professional broadcasters on the air, it also has polished upstarts on and off the air. And while KPLU is coming from Pacific Lutheran University (you just haven't been to Tacoma until you've seen the PLU campus.), far away from say, Port Angeles, it's still a shorter drive than to Twin Falls, Idaho.

BUT...

Neither KPLU, KUOW, KNHC or other of our LOCAL public/community stations feel the need for translators THOUSANDS of miles away. Would be nice, of course. But they take the less cheesy way out and provide translators to the areas their main signal cannot be heard clearly (or in the case of Port Angeles/Victoria, at all, by default from a sovereign nation.) and use the internet to cover the rest.

CSN/AFR/EMF, et all, use the main network and sub-network web of translators to blanket the country with their OWN network programming (no locally originating stuff, nothing free-form or independent.) They do not settle for just the fact they have internet feeds themselves outside of Idaho, in the case of CSN. Their main purpose is to A) Take any and all available FM frequencies to keep (or at least discourage) future local public/community broadcasters and their respective translators from coming on the air. B) Twist the meaning of "educational" radio to mean "educating in religion". Not about demonstrating the nuts and bolts to students or volunteers at each fully licensed station. C) To kill LOCAL religious radio.

I don't listen to KCMS much, but I know enough about them to know they didn't get their high ratings for nothing. They pioneered the CCM music format and they are STILL the undisputed leaders at it. They are the best example of good LOCAL religious radio (at least when a board op makes a mistake, they don't perform a full blown exorcism or speaking in tongues on him/her. Or force them to say ten Hail Marys.)

Not saying CSN/AFR/EMF does this behind the scenes. They do worse. They keep applying and applying for more and MORE translators in states hundreds and thousands of miles away. KCMS does not do this. Nor does it's Northwest Washington sister station KWPZ. KCMS had to get serious about CHANGING people's entire perception on religious radio. And CSN and the rest have been riding on the coattails of that. And with that, how dare CSN or "K-Love" cross OUR state lines.

What gives?

Is there a SHORTAGE of religious radio? Yes. If you're Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Wiccan, Native American, Sanitarian, Hindu, Sikh, Rastafarian, etc, you bet there is. But absolutely no shortage of LOCAL Christian (or derivatives) radio whatsoever. Local Christian stations are EVERYWHERE. There is no NEED for one or two national stations to replace them.

Yeah, you may be this Christian slacker guy who likes The Effect (a second CSN network that plays Christian Alternatrive on TOP of their Dogma channel or whatever it is ) But last I heard, Jesus wasn't a slacker. Or greedy.

And this is total slacker, greedy radio........
 
Bongwater:

Thanks for the post. You get no arugment from me on this; I'm thinking the same thing-the rules as they currently exist for NCE/Non Comm's is clearly being abused. You did an excellent job of making the point.

I feel that if the commish would read these applications better and if the applicants were required to show reasons for LOCAL coverage of their signal and show the need for a translator as a fill-in, then the dial would be cleaned up a bit. I also think that the FCC ought to use the CRTC model for the NCE portion of the band and assign channels using a table of allotments- that would clearly clean things up on the left side of the dial.
 
radioplayer said:
Bongwater:

Thanks for the post. You get no arugment from me on this; I'm thinking the same thing-the rules as they currently exist for NCE/Non Comm's is clearly being abused. You did an excellent job of making the point.

I feel that if the commish would read these applications better and if the applicants were required to show reasons for LOCAL coverage of their signal and show the need for a translator as a fill-in, then the dial would be cleaned up a bit. I also think that the FCC ought to use the CRTC model for the NCE portion of the band and assign channels using a table of allotments- that would clearly clean things up on the left side of the dial.

I have a better idea: Close loopholes.

- Require all radio stations in the NCE (88.1-91.9) portion of the FM dial to maintain LOCALLY originating programming at least 60% of the time. Most already do this and more, others like the WSU web of stations out here (abuse on another level - they need to stay in EASTERN Washington.) They need to give those stations on this side to LOCAL educational institutions.

Same goes for religious stations. There is no shortage of windy Bible thumpers out there or church ladies with Amy Grant CDs in any given area.

This also partially takes care of the translator issue. Reduce the maximum number of translators for each station to 10 and ONLY in locations where the main signal is there, but unlistenable. Problem solved.

The internet will take care of the rest
 
Perhaps the biggest offender of the use of translators is Calvary Chapel of Twin Falls, Idaho. This is not about spreading Christianity, it is about dollars in the door. And operating hundreds of translators is apparently a very cost-effective way to do it. Too bad a commercial broadcaster can't do it that way. To quote from an article in 2004 "many evangelical Christian broadcasters have been able to create huge networks of translator stations to give them nationwide coverage for much less dough than it would cost to do so with full-power stations. The Calvary Chapel of Twin Falls is the Clear Channel of Christian translator station broadcasting, with 325 translator stations (in addition to 30 full-power stations".

The commission should require non-comms to live by the same "fill-in" translator rules as commercial broadcasters.

EMF hit paydirt on KLOP. It was apparently their plan from the beginning. Nobody blinked or cared when they proposed and built a non-comm licensed to Ocean Park, Washington. They did this in a stealth manner. And now they won't need any translators in SW Washington.

The commission should not allow waivers of local studio rules for non-comms. Within the contour, or 25 miles, should work just fine.
 
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
The commission should require non-comms to live by the same "fill-in" translator rules as commercial broadcasters.

IMHO the simple fix to the translator issue is to reverse the ownership requirement for non-OTA-fed non-fillin translators. Right now, a translator that extends a station's signal beyond its protected contour and is not fed by off-air reception must be owned by the primary station.

I propose the rule be reversed to require that it not[/u] be owned by the primary station. (and not receive financial/material support from the primary station. The primary would be allowed to uplink their signal to satellite at their own expense but the translator owners would be responsible for the downlinks.) And, apply the same local ownership restrictions that apply to LPFMs to these translators.

That way, if the locals in Newhalem decide they want K-Love enough to pay for it, they can have it

The commission should not allow waivers of local studio rules for non-comms. Within the contour, or 25 miles, should work just fine.

I think you'd find public radio would disappear from many rural areas.
 
Maybe there should be a differentiation between "educational" and "religious".
 
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
Maybe there should be a differentiation between "educational" and "religious".

It would never pass First Amendment muster - not to mention the lobbyists.
 
w9wi said:
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
Maybe there should be a differentiation between "educational" and "religious".

It would never pass First Amendment muster - not to mention the lobbyists.

Bill has a point. First off, local public stations should have local studios and volunteers with locally originating programming - and I mean the BULK of it. That's what defines "education" and "community" in it. The content of the programming has to be LOCALLY produced.

Like I said, "education" in non comm radio has been twisted by Calvary Chapel (CSN) and others to mean just religious education over the airwaves. REAL public/community stations educate volunteers in everything from engineering to receptionist office work.
 
Bongwater makes a good point... "Educational" has always had two interpretations... educating the listening audience, or educating students/volunteers on how to do radio.

KLOVE simply playing top 40 style music with the occasional inspirational psa really would not be considered to be either of the above.

KNHC and KMIH would hardly be considered to be educating listeners but they do educate some students with varying degrees of success.

Would KPLU be considered educational with a paid staff of professionals on the air and very little actual "educational" content? Questionalble for sure. Their only claim is that they are owned and operated by an educational institution.

EMF and CSN are clearly in the satellite fed translator in the "educational band" business for the profits, would they really do this if it were not bringing in money? my guess is not.
 
w9wi said:
Bill Wolfenbarger said:
The commission should require non-comms to live by the same "fill-in" translator rules as commercial broadcasters.

IMHO the simple fix to the translator issue is to reverse the ownership requirement for non-OTA-fed non-fillin translators. Right now, a translator that extends a station's signal beyond its protected contour and is not fed by off-air reception must be owned by the primary station.

I propose the rule be reversed to require that it not[/u] be owned by the primary station. (and not receive financial/material support from the primary station. The primary would be allowed to uplink their signal to satellite at their own expense but the translator owners would be responsible for the downlinks.) And, apply the same local ownership restrictions that apply to LPFMs to these translators.

That way, if the locals in Newhalem decide they want K-Love enough to pay for it, they can have it

The commission should not allow waivers of local studio rules for non-comms. Within the contour, or 25 miles, should work just fine.

W9wi makes a good suggestion. In the reserved band (non-com), far away stations may take their feed off the Sat and download into any far away market. If the FCC could limit this to just statewide networks, like PLU's or WSU's, that would be much more fair, but they cannot descriminate between types of institutions. I would suggest a two-test system: Either it's a statewide network dedicated to an individual states' mandate, like Northwest Public Radio at WSU, or 25 or 50 miles from the edge of that stations' 60 dbu service contour for maximum studio location and even ownership. This plan would foster localism.

But a station operating in Santa Rosa, California, serving as the studio for an 84,000 watt Class C outlet, seems proposterous, in my opinion. The reason is that they cannot possibly serve their community in Southwest Washington. So what I am saying is that perhaps we need to put a limit to this sort of nonsense. And in all fairness, my two-step test might be what's needed.

The point about serving rural communities begs the question of maybe we need to revisit the Translator rules. My plan would keep the rules the same as what the Commission already employs in an Urbanized Area.....about 12 or 13 km for the service contour, and much wider for rural areas. In other words, have two separate enginerring rules depending upon if it's close to an urban center or not, as defined by the Census. In the rural area, a higher ERP, like 500 or 1000 watts might be warranted because communities are so spread apart. Currently the Commission limits ERP to 250 watts, and lower if your antenna is higher in HAAT, like on a mountain. Because the FCC allows translators on second adjencies, this would probably only work in a rural area anyway.

Finally, those stations in the Commercial band (Non-reserved), for a non-fill translator, must be fed off the air AND have local ownership. But there is a Petition in with the Commission to change the rules to allow a Translator in the Commercial Band to be fed by various means such as Sat, Internet, phone, micowave or any other form besides off air, just like in the non-com band. (See RM-10609).

So, take a crazy, wild guess as to who the proponents are with this Petition for Rulemaking.............yes, you're right and you get a prize....................the religious broadcasters, headed up by Calvary Chapel of Twin Falls, Idaho.

Check this out; here it is in all of it's glory (big file):

http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6513198474
 
My take on this would be, if Calvery Chapel REALLY needed these frequencies, they need to release these frequencies off to the Calvery Chapels in the cities where they have a church at, to have more local programming. 

One example is their Gold Mountain translator, which only reaches the Kitsap Peninsula at best.  It should be converted to LPFM, and the programming on there should be released to, and operated by, the Calvery Chapel in Bremerton, Silverdale, Poulsbo, and Gig Harbor, and NOT the one in Twin Falls, and if anything have some funding by their main Twin Falls church.  The sermons, speeches, and other programming should be done from the Calvery Chapel in Bremerton (and the other Kitsap Peninsula locations).  If there's some national stuff they'd wish to broadcast from that frequency, they should mail their programming or satellite/internet feed it to the Bremerton, Silverdale, Poulsbo, or Gig Harbor Calvery Chapels, to be broadcasted to Gold Mountain during times they aren't broadcasting locally, but during limited hours.  The majority of the programming though, should by law come from Bremerton (where Gold Mountain lies in it's city limits).  This could be an added bonus for church-goers there, as they can get their start in broadcasting, from their own church as a volunteer effort, if at any time they wanted to play Christian music on that station, which could be considered educational.

In other words, I think a nationally-fed Calvery Chapel Network 24/7 is abuse.  They should have their individual churches take part and on their own times on frequencies covering their respective cities/towns.

K-Love however, does not have any excuse.  All they are is a non-commercial-running version of KCMS.  They need to have all those translators revoked, unless they agree to run them as LPFMs and let churches in the cities/town they have transmitters in, have most of the air-time for local stuff.  Not this 1-800-call-for-a-request national line crap.  Should not be any problem having some local churches offer volunteer airtime (Have some K-Love member churches) for anyone who wanted to get on the air to get some broadcasting experience.  Actually, if K-Love was paying their airstaff...I would think that would actually cut some of their costs by having volunteers in local areas doing air-shifts in their local areas.  And I mean, if you wanted to keep the identity of the station, you CAN still call the station K-Love.....As long as you ID the station correctly with correct call letters and COL at the top of the hour...

Unfortunately, these ideas won't float in the commercial-part of the band.  It can only be effective in the Educational/Non-Comm part of the FM band (87.9-91.9).  It can tighten up things for them however.  When you are in the commercial (92.9-107.9) part of the band, anything goes.

Hopefully I made sense there.  Feel free to have me clarify it needed.....
 
swhyde1980 said:
My take on this would be, if Calvery Chapel REALLY needed these frequencies, they need to release these frequencies off to the Calvery Chapels in the cities where they have a church at, to have more local programming.

One example is their Gold Mountain translator, which only reaches the Kitsap Peninsula at best. It should be converted to LPFM, and the programming on there should be released to, and operated by, the Calvery Chapel in Bremerton, Silverdale, Poulsbo, and Gig Harbor, and NOT the one in Twin Falls, and if anything have some funding by their main Twin Falls church. The sermons, speeches, and other programming should be done from the Calvery Chapel in Bremerton (and the other Kitsap Peninsula locations). If there's some national stuff they'd wish to broadcast from that frequency, they should mail their programming or satellite/internet feed it to the Bremerton, Silverdale, Poulsbo, or Gig Harbor Calvery Chapels, to be broadcasted to Gold Mountain during times they aren't broadcasting locally, but during limited hours. The majority of the programming though, should by law come from Bremerton (where Gold Mountain lies in it's city limits). This could be an added bonus for church-goers there, as they can get their start in broadcasting, from their own church as a volunteer effort, if at any time they wanted to play Christian music on that station, which could be considered educational.

In other words, I think a nationally-fed Calvery Chapel Network 24/7 is abuse. They should have their individual churches take part and on their own times on frequencies covering their respective cities/towns.

K-Love however, does not have any excuse. All they are is a non-commercial-running version of KCMS. They need to have all those translators revoked, unless they agree to run them as LPFMs and let churches in the cities/town they have transmitters in, have most of the air-time for local stuff. Not this 1-800-call-for-a-request national line crap. Should not be any problem having some local churches offer volunteer airtime (Have some K-Love member churches) for anyone who wanted to get on the air to get some broadcasting experience. Actually, if K-Love was paying their airstaff...I would think that would actually cut some of their costs by having volunteers in local areas doing air-shifts in their local areas. And I mean, if you wanted to keep the identity of the station, you CAN still call the station K-Love.....As long as you ID the station correctly with correct call letters and COL at the top of the hour...

Unfortunately, these ideas won't float in the commercial-part of the band. It can only be effective in the Educational/Non-Comm part of the FM band (87.9-91.9). It can tighten up things for them however. When you are in the commercial (92.9-107.9) part of the band, anything goes.

Hopefully I made sense there. Feel free to have me clarify it needed.....

What denomination is Calvary Chapel anyway?
 
hey sir lawrence....Calvary Chapel is non-denominational....shares a good message when I have attended. down to earth...and good practical stuff that really works good in many lives.......

:cool:

jj
 
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