KLOS Sold - Now it's a Fact!

[davideduardo]

It's not a conversation about what KLOS is defined as now, as that formula is presumably not viable as boomers continue to age and die. It is a conversation about what can the new owners do to the station to retain it within the rock format but make it viable for the long term.

KLOS' core is 35 and over. That is not an age group that is particularly into music discovery.

And in 18-34, the market is so overwhelmingly ethnic that it really does not matter what is being done in Detroit or Philly or Boston.

If they deviate too much from the 35-54 approach, they have nothing to replace it with. Even the stations like KYSR and KROQ that aim a bit younger are, as a group, declining.

In 25-54, KLOS in 10 AM - 3 PM, a music based daypart, beats both KYSR and KROQ... so they are still quite relevant within their target.

 

[davideduardo]

It's easy to say classic rock is dead. But...if we look at live shows, many of the really big concerts are still classic rock. Desert Trip (Oldchella.) McCartney at Dodger Stadium. Stones at Rose Bowl.

Desert Trip was going on three years ago, and the promoters knew it could not be repeated.

But the real point is that many, if not the majority, of the attendees were not classic rock listeners. They were there for the Stones, for McCartney. I talked with lots of them between acts, ahead of the shows... they were not into the format, just certain artists that benchmarked their younger years.

Anecdotally, I don't ever listen to classic rock stations, but I loved the concert and seeing the Stones had been on my bucket list.

There is still life in classic rock.

Of course there is, but the group is aging and it will be harder for KLOS to transition than it was for KRTH.

And as for Latinos not liking rock.....they do. Morrissey has a huge fan base in East LA. Metallica as well. If KRTH can play non-ethnic mainstream 70s/80s music and get those ratings, I think KLOS can too. If they do it right.

Just as younger demos listen predominantly to hip hop and rhythmic CHR now, nearly everyone listend to the stuff KRTH plays today when they were growing up. Most of the songs on KRTH were also hits in Latin America (although folks who would have heard the songs there are not the people who emigrated from those nations) and they were the songs of nearly everyone growing up in LA in the 70's and 80's.

Far fewer grew up here listening to AOR and harder rock. Yes, some Hispanics listen to KROQ and KYSR and KLOS, but those stations very much under-index among Hispanics.

My wish for KLOS is that they lose the dopey Valley girl imaging and go with something less tacky and Inland Empire. Some more high quality speciality shows would get me to tune in more frequently. Give Mr. Shovel or Gary Moore "choose your songs" shows like Bob Coburn had. Do more stuff like the mashup thing on Fridays. A huge chunk of the day is either unlistenable low-rent Howard Stern imitators Frosty and Brian (or whatever it's called) or generic classic rock with jocks on autopilot.

Remember, the company that owned them was very unfocused and morale was very low. Just having a very deep-pocketed new owner should make the staiton improve. But classic rock in LA is not ever going to be a much bigger format than it is now. This is not Philly.

 

[davideduardo]

You're all missing the forest for the trees. The songs and artists listed are simply to validate that artists are indeed churning out new rock as we speak, but without radio support it amounts somewhat to the proverbial tree falling in that aforementioned forest. Regarding Five Finger Death Punch, it is currently All Access' pick as the number one cool new music track in the rock chart genre.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that KLOS is a classic rock station, not intended or appropriate to be an outlet for music discovery. Adding new songs when the listener base wants and expects creativity is simply going to drive listeners away.

 

[TheBigA]

You're all missing the forest for the trees. The songs and artists listed are simply to validate that artists are indeed churning out new rock as we speak, but without radio support it amounts somewhat to the proverbial tree falling in that aforementioned forest.

All of what you say is not the view of the record companies. They aren't devoting any money or resources to rock radio promotion. Thirty years ago, the labels were focused on radio support. Not any more. They believe they can do it without radio. It's their decision. I see other genres where the record companies still seek radio airplay, and their artists are getting more visibility than rock artists. This is a music problem, not a radio problem.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

All of what you say is not the view of the record companies. They aren't devoting any money or resources to rock radio promotion. Thirty years ago, the labels were focused on radio support. Not any more. They believe they can do it without radio. It's their decision. I see other genres where the record companies still seek radio airplay, and their artists are getting more visibility than rock artists. This is a music problem, not a radio problem.

In BigA's world it is never a radio problem. Radio is always blameless since the are just playing what the audience wants to hear.

 

[TheBigA]

In BigA's world it is never a radio problem. Radio is always blameless since the are just playing what the audience wants to hear.

Radio is just a medium. Don't blame the medium. It can be whatever the owner wants to be. Anyone can own a radio station. Stevie Wonder owns KJLH-FM. No reason why other rich musicians who make millions from radio airplay don't own radio station. If rock music benefits from FM radio airplay, a consortium of LA based rock musicians could easily buy a radio station and program it any way they want. They could run it as a non-profit. They could run it as a music discovery service. They could run it as their own personal promotion service. It's not the responsibility of radio companies to make musicians rich and famous.

 

[Y2kTheNewOldies]

All of what you say is not the view of the record companies. They aren't devoting any money or resources to rock radio promotion. Thirty years ago, the labels were focused on radio support. Not any more. They believe they can do it without radio. It's their decision. I see other genres where the record companies still seek radio airplay, and their artists are getting more visibility than rock artists. This is a music problem, not a radio problem.

True I have just seen Rob Thomas and his label release new songs on their youtube page though. From What I have seen so far here is that his promoters and staff members have indications that his fan base is primarily listening to his current singles over on Youtube and on music streamers though. I don't know how this connects to radio though given that the people currently managing the recording companies can get a more accurate detail of what songs are the top singles being played on the outlets mentioned in the links.

https://atlantic.lnk.to/ChipToothSmileID

For Radio or for KLOS specifically under Meruelo I'm not sure how they are going to respond yet to deal with adapting to the current demos in L.A. though.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcnX7RK2NZk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaSoq9FELF8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo84qxVfbqU

 

[davideduardo]

For Radio or for KLOS specifically under Meruelo I'm not sure how they are going to respond yet to deal with adapting to the current demos in L.A. though.

Meruelo has even more work now. I was just told by the legendary "little birdie" that the sale of KXOS by Grupo Radio Centro was announced to the staff at 1:30 today.

 

[TheBigA]

True I have just seen Rob Thomas and his label release new songs on their youtube page

When you're Rob Thomas or any heritage act who had their careers helped by endless radio airplay, you have a built-in fan base that probably subscribes to your YouTube page and other personalized media. That's the main thing that's changed in the relationship between radio & records, and why record labels feel they don't have to invest in artist development or radio promotion. The thing they miss is fame is fleeting, and you need to keep banging the drum for people to pay attention. How much work is the artist willing to do? That's the question to ask when you're trying to do direct media. It's been my experience that other genres are much better at this than rock, which is why it's in decline.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

When you're Rob Thomas or any heritage act who had their careers helped by endless radio airplay, you have a built-in fan base that probably subscribes to your YouTube page and other personalized media. That's the main thing that's changed in the relationship between radio & records, and why record labels feel they don't have to invest in artist development or radio promotion. The thing they miss is fame is fleeting, and you need to keep banging the drum for people to pay attention. How much work is the artist willing to do? That's the question to ask when you're trying to do direct media. It's been my experience that other genres are much better at this than rock, which is why it's in decline.

It is amazing to me that after all of these years you still fail to see how the lack of investment into their own product on behalf of the rock radio stations themselves has helped in their own demise. I have outlined on this very site in the past several ways rock radio could invest in and improve the product, but like all internally developed R&D efforts, they would take time, effort, resources (read: money) and persistence. Instead, it was just easier to play another set of Aerosmith, ZZ Top, Zeppelin and Skynyrd which takes almost none of the above.

 

[Delete My Account]

I find it interesting how many musicians have such deep connection to radio, but so few invest in it. I'm biased being in the business, but I would have expected a few more artists to step into the radio realm. Of course, I'm sure they're concerned with savvy investment and have business managers - but for fun and "vanity project" status, radio's a great venue. I noticed that U2's manager had a share in the initial "Phantom FM" alternative music station in Dublin, but when Phantom changed to TXFM, and announced they were signing off, they got a farewell message from U2 but none of the band stepped in to keep the station on the air, despite it being a platform for young Irish alternative artists, much like a certain band.. I don't know what it says about the interests or thinking of the artists, but for a medium so many of them wrote about and reminisce about, few of them seem to have an interest in it in the present day outside of those branded channels on Sirius.

 

[TheBigA]

It is amazing to me that after all of these years you still fail to see how the lack of investment into their own product on behalf of the rock radio stations themselves has helped in their own demise.

It's amazing to me that you fail to see that radio stations don't own the music they play, so they can't invest in the music. When the music sucks and aims at a smaller and smaller audience, it makes less sense for radio to play that music, and there's not much radio can do to fix bad music. However there was a time when musicians made great music, and the audience knows the difference between good & bad music. So playing music from when it was good attracts a bigger audience than playing current bad music. Maybe it's time for music companies to invest in their own product.

 

[johndavis]

It's amazing to me that you fail to see that radio stations don't own the music they play, so they can't invest in the music. When the music sucks and aims at a smaller and smaller audience, it makes less sense for radio to play that music, and there's not much radio can do to fix bad music. However there was a time when musicians made great music, and the audience knows the difference between good & bad music. So playing music from when it was good attracts a bigger audience than playing current bad music. Maybe it's time for music companies to invest in their own product.

THIS. I didn't stop listening to new rock on the radio in the late 90s because of anything that the radio stations were doing.

I stopped listening to new rock on the radio in the late 90s because the music started to suck.

This is also why alternative radio can't exist today without leaning on its gold category...

 

[LKellerIII]

It's amazing to me that you fail to see that radio stations don't own the music they play, so they can't invest in the music. When the music sucks and aims at a smaller and smaller audience, it makes less sense for radio to play that music, and there's not much radio can do to fix bad music. However there was a time when musicians made great music, and the audience knows the difference between good & bad music. So playing music from when it was good attracts a bigger audience than playing current bad music. Maybe it's time for music companies to invest in their own product.

i know this isn't Reddit, but I'll give that comment "gold" regardless.

THIS. I didn't stop listening to new rock on the radio in the late 90s because of anything that the radio stations were doing.

I stopped listening to new rock on the radio in the late 90s because the music started to suck.

This is also why alternative radio can't exist today without leaning on its gold category...

I was in a San Francisco restaurant the other day that was playing 99.7 Now - similar to KIIS-FM. I turned to my companion and said, "All this music sounds the same."

I have become my parents.

 

[TheBigA]

Not to belabor the point, but why not?

There is a long tradition of recording artists owning radio stations. It's not just Stevie Wonder. Down in Bakersfield, Buck Owens owned KUZZ. In fact, his family still does. The Oak Ridge Boys owned radio stations for many years. So did Kenny Rogers. Meanwhile Mick Fleetwood spends millions on restaurants, many of which have gone belly up. Do you think Mick has blown at least $45 million during his life on failed restaurants? Wouldn't that money have been better spent buying KLOS?

But it's not just rich musicians who should invest in radio. The late Paul Allen gave millions of dollars to KEXP, the non-commercial alternative station in Seattle. You mean to tell me there aren't any billionaire boomers who grew up with the radio who would love to contribute a small fraction of their fortune to restoring radio to its former luster? Jeff Bezos spent a few hundred million buying the Washington Post. Isn't there someone like Jeff who has the same interest in radio? Someone who has passion for radio and music, not just on making a profit. I was reading about this fracking billionaire who owns the Buffalo Bills. He just pealed off a few hundred million to start a record label. That's the kind of person who should be buying radio stations. There is no law that requires only big radio companies to own stations.

 

[CTListener]

It's amazing to me that you fail to see that radio stations don't own the music they play, so they can't invest in the music. When the music sucks and aims at a smaller and smaller audience, it makes less sense for radio to play that music, and there's not much radio can do to fix bad music. However there was a time when musicians made great music, and the audience knows the difference between good & bad music. So playing music from when it was good attracts a bigger audience than playing current bad music. Maybe it's time for music companies to invest in their own product.

They are investing in their product -- but it's not rock. It's rhythmic pop and hip-hop/rap. It's hot country, The kids have moved on from dad's and granddad's genre, rock, or at least enough of them have to make the millennials who do like new rock largely outliers in the eyes of the labels.

When I first heard rap in the late '80s, I figured it for a fad. It's been 30 years and it's still here. A full generation has grown up with it. Rock's last strong generation was X.

 

[TheBigA]

They are investing in their product -- but it's not rock. It's rhythmic pop and hip-hop/rap. It's hot country.

How about rhythmic country? They call it Hick-hop. I know this isn't big in LA, but if you leave the city, you'll hear it everywhere.

 

[CTListener]

How about rhythmic country? They call it Hick-hop. I know this isn't big in LA, but if you leave the city, you'll hear it everywhere.

I'm not hearing it on country stations here. I think there've been a few singles that have gotten airplay in the recent past, but the genre is nowhere close to goiing as heavily rhythmic/urban as pop is right now.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

It's amazing to me that you fail to see that radio stations don't own the music they play, so they can't invest in the music. When the music sucks and aims at a smaller and smaller audience, it makes less sense for radio to play that music, and there's not much radio can do to fix bad music. However there was a time when musicians made great music, and the audience knows the difference between good & bad music. So playing music from when it was good attracts a bigger audience than playing current bad music. Maybe it's time for music companies to invest in their own product.

Wrong. They can invest in the music. Radio stations did it all the time once upon a time - they paid for entire orchestras to make sure the product was good (when orchestras were a thing). That was then. Today there is a lot that radio can do to fix bad music. Mainly by identifying the good music that does exist - this may come as a shock, but not all new music is bad (it just seems that way!). It is your airwaves, don't just put on a product that sucks and say "that is all the record company will give us" - that is a lame answer and any business that relies on such a bad business model deserves to fail and most certainly will.

On the other hand the station can be proactive:
- sponsor music talent competitions,
- identify quality local (or even non-local) bands,
- put out new music samplers (KFOG did this successfully for years),
- give bands time on the radio on non-revenue productive Sunday nights.
- Bring in a guest DJ from a college station to spin records on the same Sunday night.
- Synergize and cross-promote with a station like KCSN so that artists that are popular there can make an easy transition to the "Big signal" radio stations.
- Sponsor a local summer tour for the best up and coming band identified during the year.
- Get behind a few new new songs and put them in heavy rotation during the week (Little Steven does this on his Underground Garage playing the "Coolest Record in the World" that gets put in heavy rotation and identified as such every week).

Of course when you are doing these things you will need to promote, promote, promote. As I said, it takes time, takes energy, takes money. It also keeps formats, stations and the jobs and careers that go with them fresh and vibrant. Or again, you can just sit back and say its the record companies' fault that we play 40 year old music that hasn't evolved because "we don't own the music". You'll even get approving gold stars and upvotes on boards like this.

I will say KLOS playing Joney's Jukebox is a step in the right direction and should be applauded. In the corporate rock world, it is an exception.

 

[TheBigA]

Wrong. They can invest in the music. Radio stations did it all the time once upon a time - they paid for entire orchestras to make sure the product was good (when orchestras were a thing). That was then.

Until 1988, two of the biggest record companies (RCA and Columbia) also owned radio stations, so it made that kind of thing easy. That all changed when American record labels were sold to foreign conglomerates. Now all they care about is collecting American money and shipping it to Japan, France, or Germany.

On the other hand the station can be proactive:

Radio stations have done each and every one of those things in the last two years. You just don't know because you don't listen, or maybe because it happened in a format you don't like. But this kind of thing happens all the time. Some cross promotion goes on between Sirius channels and commercial radio. Several big stars like Florida Georgia Line got discovered that way. Radio stations invite newly-signed recording artists to play intimate shows in their studios or in area clubs. All of these things work better when you have a record label promotion team that works WITH radio (which you don't see in the rock format any more). But it happens.